ASF's have changed a lot over the years. More people should consider them.

As co-author of the origional ASF caresheet... I must say that ASF's have come a long way.

I remember in the beginning the asf's I had were absolute terrors! They would attack me totally unprovoked. They would regularly attack each other, killing and canabalizing. If a stranger was introduced, it resulted in certain violent death.

Keep in mind, in the beginning I started with rats from 4 different sources. Since then I have NEVER introduced new blood. 15+ generations later, they have changed a lot! I guess through selective breeding a lot of the "Wild" traits have been removed... They certainly seem to be more domesticated now then they used to be. I really don't know if it is genetic, learned, or enviroment related but my guess is it is a combination of all three.

If you piss off a mom around the kids you will still get nipped, but that is about it. Other then that there is no aggression towards me or towards each other. I can throw a handfull of kids from one colony in with kids from another colony, and they mom immediately accepts them (this used to result in certain death for all the unfamiliar kids) I can even remove a male from an established colony and throw a new male in! They will nip at each other a little getting to know each other, but then they are good. This was impossible to do in the beginning. The females would have ripped the male apart, killing him within a couple hours.

I remember in the beginning when irritated they would sit up on their back legs and stare you down, swaying back and forth. They all did it, and it was quite threatening. Now, I can't remember the last time I saw one do it. That in itself is amazing to me.

They still have a long way to go to get where normal rats are personality wise, but I am telling you, in time it will probably happen.

:taz:

I've got one now that rides on my shoulder around the house. Who knew. :D

All my ASFs do not bite, I got them from a breeder that has done what you have Mike. I can pull them off the babies and they are sweet as can be. They love jumping off my hand but that's about it lol.

Still, I wish they grew faster!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

I've got one now that rides on my shoulder around the house. Who knew. :D

---

One of these days, we will have to breed.


LMAO... that didn't sound very good to the outsider hearing this conversation!

LOL!

I have to agree with both of you as I have bred ASF's for three years now they have progressively gotten much better in every way.Just wish they'd grow a little faster.:oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

One of these days, we will have to breed.

---

MIKE! You've got to at least take me out to dinner first!! :hump:

Lol nice you guys.

See I just can't see it. I don't want to have to breed for years to not get bitten. My rats were chainsaws. One even loved to jump in the air and nab me. She even attacked toilet paper tubes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bokuza

See I just can't see it. I don't want to have to breed for years to not get bitten. My rats were chainsaws. One even loved to jump in the air and nab me. She even attacked toilet paper tubes.

---

You don't have to wait for years... all you have to do is buy from someone with quality animals.

Mike just out of curiosity did you routinely feed off the aggressive ones? I have been looking quite hard at genetics of temperament. It seems that more and more likely that many animals temperaments can be altered based on genetics balls too i think...

Yes. The younger ones that are quick to bite and agressive get fed off first. They never make it to the breeding

There is a huge difference in temperment and imo growth speed depeding on ur stock.

3 colonies and 2 came from one source and 1 came from a different one.

The lone colony is shy and nervous all the time.. The other two are super curious and friendly. Standing looking out of the tub soon as its open.

I noticed about 30 days difference in growth rate too. The lone tub took the full 4 months to be ready to go. The other 2 tubs had litters within 3 based on birth dates i was given.. Ill have better records and proof now that there producing and i can hold back myself

Edit:
Genetics are key. I like these guys alot. They are a great feed source. Even with there slow growth rate. I just invested in a 27 tub rack to bump up production from my current 6 tub.

AND Even with 27 tubs. Ill still be better off then with a few tubs of horible smelling mice.

I want to start breeding rats to feed my balls but is it actually worth it frozen are only like 80 cents I just don't know lol seems like you guys have a great start

I've been breeding ASF's for years and years also. Mine don't bite, an occasional nip from a protective momma, but overall, they are more docile than most of my mice.

But, I still hate them.;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spankege

I want to start breeding rats to feed my balls but is it actually worth it frozen are only like 80 cents I just don't know lol seems like you guys have a great start

---

Depends on how many you have. It's worth it if you have a good collection, I'd say 3-4 or more.

I bred them 3 diff times. Each time for a year at a time.

All 3 times came from different sources from different parts of michigan and Ohio. Each time They were mean and Chewed the racks if i didnt have chew blocks in.

I dont have snakes that eat them, so i was breeding them and dropping off at BHB, and others that needed them. But it was PITA to deal with adults attacking my hand everytime id wean

I started my colony almost 2 years ago! I would occasionally get bit. I always would feed off the nippy ones. This tread made me sit back and think. I can't remember the last time that I got nipped from a ASF. All of my girls let me reach under them and take babies away. I even started breeding some groups of 2.8 without any fights. I have about 12 tubs of them right now.;) I have selectively bred them to be white. I'm not sure if this is linked to temperament, but most of my colony is all white ASF's. I almost feel bad feeding the little boogers now :rofl:

It's definitely not linked to temperament, my meanest ones are from you. :rofl:
Although, my sweetest one is a BEW, too. :P

Maybe I just got lucky with mine. I separated the original group I got into 2 colonies. 1 for color and 1 for temperament. These same rats from the breeder I got them from will rush across their tub and maul his tongs. Even the tub selected for color is friendly. They'll rear up like a hamster and squeak qith their eyes closed, but will not bite. All are very curious. I'll see if the "temperament" tub gets progressively more outgoing, but I also think part of it is how you interact with them.

Breeder I got them. From uses tongs and admittedly isn't very nice to them. I started off handling them before they had their first litters, and gently scoot them off their babies. They're neat little critters to work with, and I have a couple that will let me scritch their heads while they close their eyes and stretch out their legs :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

It's definitely not linked to temperament, my meanest ones are from you. :rofl:
Although, my sweetest one is a BEW, too. :P

---

:rofl: I used to get bit every time I cleaned. I fed off all of my old breeders and don't get bit anymore.:)

I haven't been breeding them for long (just got my starter colony from another member here about a month ago) but I have yet to get bit. When I check food and water each night, I reach my hand in the tub and rub the backs of each of the breeders and they seem to like it. I also try to touch the babies as much as I can so they get used to the idea...

My first asf's ever, in early 2009, were nasty and would go after you and attack each other.

I culled when I moved to Arizona. In Arizona I picked up 50 or 75 of them from one guy. He had put all the males in one tank, all the females in another.

No fighting.

Then I took them all out, paired them up, and only had 2 groups that killed the mail (i did a 1:2) I culled those groups.

I noticed that the light tan ones are notoriously nastier. Of all the groups of asf's I had, I noticed this. I have also talked to a few other people who feel the same way.

Anyone else notice this??


btw, i got the most amazing asfs from Rhasputin!!

I agree with this.. The darker ones with a more wild type color seem more aggressive. My pink eyed ones are the nice ones.

I made the mistake of letting my colonies get too thin and I had to buy more from a different source. I only have one pink eye left so I'm using him as a breeder male in one colony to get that blood line going again.

I'm tired of the other ones. The females still stand up and try to bite me when I put my hand in :(

It's a shame these guys are illegal in CA :/

I will be starting back up again.

Im sick of the mice. They were revamped with new groups, produced well, now that i have babies that hatched, all the hoppers and fuzzies are dieing or being ate when i need them.:rage:

Im done so I will slowly move over to ASF for hatchling food to get them started next season. Nothing in collection eats mice but hatchlings so mine as well stop breedign them.

I will also be starting up again with ASFs, assuming this deal doesn't fall through like the others. Husband is getting sick of the rat smell.

My first batch were terribly aggressive, and I'm hoping these won't be. I'm going to try and breed it out of them as best I can, at any rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bad-one

It's a shame these guys are illegal in CA :/

---

thats why i cant find them anywhere

Apparently I have bad luck when it comes to ASFs. The woman who told me she had them thought that I meant "normal rats with soft fur". Guess I'm going to give up on these for now. :confused: