Trying to understand genetics with punnett squares

Exploring my options with what bps I should get for future breeding. Im having a little bit of a hard time figuring what happens when you cross different morphs. Ive figured out the basics from this guide (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basic-Genetics) but Im not quite sure what happens when you mix different morphs?

So i understand this part:
Recessive:
Het Albino x Normal = 50 % Het / 50 % Normal
Het Albino x Het Albino = 25 % Albino / 50 % Het / 25 % Normal
Het Albino x Albino = 50 % Albino / 50 % Het Albino
Albino x Albino = 100 % Albino

Dominant:
Spider x Normal = 50 % Spider / 50 % Normal
Spider x Spider = 75 % Spider ?? / 25 % Normal ??

Co-Dominant:
YB x Normal = 50 % YB / 50 % Normal
YB x YB = 25 % Ivory / 50 % YB / 25 % Normal

So sticking with those examples above, what would happen if I did the following matches?

Using the recessive gene:
Albino x YB ?
Albino x Spider ?

Since its albino is a recessive morph, would this mean that none of the offspring would be albino's, but some would be het for albino ?

Mixing co-dominant and dominant:
Spider x YB ?
Spider x Ivory ?

I am literally scratching my head trying to figure out what would happen, but using a Punnett square even doesnt help. All I end up with is a letter combo that I dont understand.

If Albino's two alleles were AA in the Punnett Square, and Het for Albino was AN.. and if YB's alleles were YN and Ivory's alleles were YY, then crossing an Albino with a YB would yield: AY, AY, AN, AN.

A = Albino, N = Normal, Y = Yellowbelly

That would mean you would get 50 % YB Het for Albino, 50% Normal Het for Albino?

And if Yellowbelly's are YN, and Spiders are SN (or is it SS, spiders are dominant so they only require one allele. so how would you represent a spider in a punnett square?) Say Spider is indeed SN, then crossing them would yield: YS, YN, SN, NN.

That would mean 25 % Yellowbelly Spider (??? Is this correct ??), 25 % Yellowbelly, 25 % Spider, 25 % Normal

Did I just figure that out? SORRY for such a long thread, Lol! Thanks for reading it all :) :D

Here is a genetics calculator:

Just make sure it's switched to "ball pythons" :gj:

This one is me and my boyfriends website it has a good genetics calculator on it and other things as well.

http://owalreptiles.com/genetics.php

Remember, your percentages are per egg, not clutch.

Use this calculator, best one I have found. You can select as many morphs/genes you want by holding the ctrl button before adding extra genes.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

Thanks for all the links and help guys. I've worked out a deal for a pair of het albino's that I will get, unless I find something better at the expo in November. Pretty stoked :)

I want to take a moment to applaud you wanting to LEARN genetics not look at a calculator..... Dont get me wrong calculators can be hand for when there are 4 or more genes involved, but up to 3 is relatively simple, so if nothing else thank you for seeking info not wanting someone to hand you an answer.

basic on genetics
codom and dom, half of offspring will cary the gene

codom,like parents produce "super form " 25% and 25%will the gene from mother same with father, 25% will not inherit the gene

Recessive animal has to get gene from both parents to produce visual (only superform is visual) hets appear normal, and in het to het breedings are indistinguishable from normal siblings (where you get possi hets)

While you did have the correct answers your method could run into problems when you have the same gene in both parents, But as long as you keep it straight in your head all that matters. Yes the calcs are nice, but it's also nice to understand how this stuff works.

So if your actually interested.... I'll show you my method, I like it because I don't miss anything even with big squares.

I set up the square by listing every allele combination the parent can give (simplifies it as much as possible) and I also make sure each locus is represented (make sure nothing is missed). Capital letters are morphed allele, lowercase are normal allele.

Albino x YB
the albino can only give 1 allele combination (Ay) while the yellow belly can give 2 (aY and ay)


Albino x Spider
Same deal as the above example

Spider x YB
Both have two different allele combinations

Spider x Ivory

Something I want to point out at this point is that you will notice Albino x Spider, Albino x Yellow Belly and Ivory x Spider calculated exactly the same way didn't they? That because you had a heterozygous (spider or yellow belly) x homozygous (ivory or albino) breeding. Being recessive/co-dom/dom has nothing to do with how punnett squares work. It's about heterozygous and homozygous.

You will see every single heterozygous x homozygous breeding calculates exactly like that, doesn't matter what morphs are involved (as long as their not that same morph for the current example), doesn't matter if their recessive/co-dom/dom. Just something to keep in mind, you will soon see patterns and this complicated genetics thing get really easy.

Now I'm not sure how your method would of calculated something with the same gene in both snakes. If you get the right answer somehow, by all means keep doing what your doing. but here my example

Lemon Blast x BumbleBee
(Pastel/Pinstripe) x (Pastel/Spider)
4 different Allele combinations from each of them
P = Pastel
X = Pinstripe
S = Spider


or


need me to explain something better, feel free to ask.

Ive gotten through all the simple combo's you've mentioned so far & recreated your version of punnett squares and I understand it fairly well now. I am still in the midst of deciphering the big 4 gene cross-pool, I will have to do that tomorrow.

Also, now that I am understanding more and more, I think getting a pair of het albino's isnt the smartest thing. Leaves me with 66% Het Albino, and 33% Normals, if I dont get any Albino's. (correct?)

I think a smarter route would be:
I was offered a Pastel Het Orange Ghost Girl 2011 Hatchling for $275. Is this a reasonable price ? I have been seeing Pastels go for $150-$225 where I live.

Eventually, I think I want to work towards a Black Pewter. Pairing a Pastel Het OG with a Black Pastel, I would achieve: 25% Black Pewter, 25 % Black Pastel Het OG, 25 % Normal Het OG, 25 % Pastel. Better odds, right? That way, anything I get will be worth $150 and up.

Versus having to prove heterozygous albinos.. That would take even more time and another year of breeding. My main goal right now is to produce some cool morphs within two years, and make all the money back that I will spend so far (which will probably be around $1500-2000 with tubs, racks, thermostats, snakes and everything else included)

THANK YOU OHHWATALOSER FOR HELPING ME WITH THAT. And thanks everyone else for the help as well :D Really appreciate it

Also, Im getting more confused because certain websites claim different morphs and I have no idea how to see if its legitimate or not.

Since I was offered a Pastel Het Orange Ghost Female, it got me thinking..

If you mixed a Pastel x Orange Ghost, (P = Pastel allele, p = normal allele, G = OG allele)


So 50% would be GgPp (or Pastel het OG), and 50% would be Gppp (or Normal het OG)

What I DONT understand now is this: http://www.legendboas.com/available-...pogs-and-more/

What are POG's then ? I understand they are called Pastel Orange Ghosts, but how can this be a possible morph? Doesnt the Orange Ghost allele have to be paired with another Orange Ghost allele, in order for the recessive trait to be visible? Am i making sense ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

Also, Im getting more confused because certain websites claim different morphs and I have no idea how to see if its legitimate or not.

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hm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

What I DONT understand now is this: http://www.legendboas.com/available-...pogs-and-more/

What are POG's then ? I understand they are called Pastel Orange Ghosts, but how can this be a possible morph? Doesnt the Orange Ghost allele have to be paired with another Orange Ghost allele, in order for the recessive trait to be visible? Am i making sense ?

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Both parents had atleast 1 ghost allele

Pastel het Ghost x het Ghost


trust me it possible, I own one :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

Also, Im getting more confused because certain websites claim different morphs and I have no idea how to see if its legitimate or not.

Since I was offered a Pastel Het Orange Ghost Female, it got me thinking..

If you mixed a Pastel x Orange Ghost, (P = Pastel allele, p = normal allele, G = OG allele)


So 50% would be GgPp (or Pastel het OG), and 50% would be Gppp (or Normal het OG)

What I DONT understand now is this: http://www.legendboas.com/available-...pogs-and-more/

What are POG's then ? I understand they are called Pastel Orange Ghosts, but how can this be a possible morph? Doesnt the Orange Ghost allele have to be paired with another Orange Ghost allele, in order for the recessive trait to be visible? Am i making sense ?

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Yes, you are making sense. You are right. An orange ghost has a pair of orange ghost genes. A pastel orange ghost has a pastel gene paired with a normal gene and a pair of orange ghost genes.

In the Punnett square in the quote, p is the normal allele for the pastel mutant gene. The normal allele p is not the normal allele of the orange ghost gene.

P = pastel mutant gene
p = normal allele of the pastel mutant gene.

g = orange ghost mutant gene
G = normal allele of the orange ghost mutant gene.

The convention is that the more dominant gene gets the upper case letter and the more recessive gene gets the lower case letter.

Pastel (Pp GG) x orange ghost (pp gg) -->

Each sex cell (sperm or egg) gets one member of each gene pair. The pastel produces 2 types of sex cells -- P G and p G. The orange ghost produces one type of sex cell -- p g.


1/2 Pp Gg = pastel het orange ghost
1/2 pp Gg = normal looking, het orange ghost
The fractions are the odds of a given result per egg, not per litter.

To make a pastel orange ghost, one would mate a pastel with an orange ghost to make pastel het orange ghosts. Then mate one of them to either and orange ghost or a het orange ghost, We would expect some of those babies to be pastel orange ghosts.