Incubators... Ugh

Help me! Okay so I am trying to learn as much as possible and plan ahead for the possible clutch I have coming my way. There are a hundred different build your own incubator videos on youtube and everyone seems to have a different way of doing it. Because I have never done this before I have no idea what works and what doesn't. Is water on the bottom good for humidity or is it too much? Do you still wet the verm in the containers if you have water in the incubator? Does anyone have something they have built and used? Because right now I just have a bunch of videos and nobody I trust saying, yes this method works and is reliable. I don't wanna mess up my first clutch. >,<

The reason that there are so many ways of doing it is because all you are doing is creating a stable environment. There are many ways of doing that. You want a constant temperature from top to bottom of your incubator. Your eggs can be placed in an egg box either in a medium or on top of a medium. The egg box is used to maintain humidity levels.

I would encourage you to continue to do your research and see what fits with what your future plans are. I have an old freezer with flexwatt and fans. I keep bottles of water in the door and floor to help hold the temps stable when I open and close the door. I use 6 or 12 qt Tupperware containers for egg boxes (depends upon the number of eggs in the clutch). The method that I feel most comfortable with is the substrate-less method. I have a four inch fan blowing at all times to circulate the air and keep the temperature constant. Without a fan, the hotter air rises and you have a temperature variance from top to bottom.

If you are only looking at one clutch, then you might want to look at doing the small cooler build. Flexwatt and a thermostat can be obtained from ReptileBasics.com and the fan you need to circulate the air can be found at coolerguys.com. The build is not very hard and you don't need a lot of skill to put one together. Plenty of folks here can help.

I have built a number of incubators over the years and now i have a walkin incubator cause i need the space. One way to build an easy incubator is the cooler build. My only issue with coolers is i like to be able to see in the incubator without having to open it too much. The smaller the incubator the quicker the heat escapes when you open it. Now the smaller the incubator the quicker it heats up as well. If you look on craigslist you can find glass front wine chillers, and glass front drink fridges all the time. You can even find em that dont work which is ideal since you dont need them to work. You just want the unit so those tend to be cheap. You can also find them at the dump. Get a unit with a glass door and simple put a strip of 11 inch flexwatt on the sides. You can use smaller flexwatt but i like the bigger stuff cause it heats up faster. Next you need a small fan. You can find a good small d/c electric fan from radio shack for like 20 bucks. The key with the fan is just to be able to move air. You dont want it too big so its cooling constantly. The next thing is shelving. Some of the units will already have shelving that works fine or you can go to home depot and use the wire style shelving. Its cheap and can be cut to size very easily. Once you get that done you need a thermostat. I good proportional stat is what you want. This is the only part of the build you never go cheap on as this is the brains of the operation. A container of water is needed for humidity.

Now incubation medium. There is alot of different mediums you can use and alot of techniques as well. I personally like vermiculite. Ive used it for years, it works, and i dont see any need in changing. You want to ad water to it until it stays clumped together without being able to asqueeze water out of it. Simply place the eggs in the containers. Dont bury the eggs. I poke holes in the lids of the egg boxes. Some people seal them completely with no air holes. Again personally i poke holes. Its how ive done it for years and it works for me. There are alot of ways to incubate eggs and the incubation process is the most importand and hardest part of captive breeding. This is why you need to build or buy a good incubation system and research as much as you can on the subject. Getting snakes to breed is the easy part. Hopes this helps

Okay I have plans to get a wine cooler on Wednesday with a glass front, it doesn't work so I am only paying $15, but its a very nice cooler. You mentioned putting water in the heater to increase humidity and also putting water with the vermiculite (which I did look over the how to put together your tubs post), I was curious though about the humidity in general. I saw some posts where people were saying too much humidity is bad, that the eggs can mold. Is that a problem when you put water in the incubator and you have the vermiculite?

I dont put alot of water in the incubator. For example, my walkin incubator is the size of a walk in closet. I only put a 1 gallon bucket half filled in their just to give some humidity in the air. The egg boxes with wet vermiculate will proveide good humidity to the eggs. Now you want to add moisture to the vermiculate over time if it starts drying out. I spritz my eggs once a week with a water bottle that i keep in the incubator. This is something i have always done, some may say thats not good to do others will agree but it is what i do and it works for me

Okay that was going to be another of my questions, how often to spritz or if you need to change out the vermiculite for new moist vermiculite if the other dries out or how you maintain that. I wonder how much water I would put into a wine chiller to keep the air humid without making it too much so that it hurts the eggs. I think I am going to end up running this thing for months before the eggs come to make sure I have all the temps and everything right lol.

If you use the substrateless method, you won't have to worry about your vermiculite getting too wet or too dry.

It looks like what you will see in post #13 in this thread:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...l=1#post839426

So the amount of moisture in the vermiculite only matters if the eggs are touching it? I could do the little grates to keep the eggs off the vermiculite, then how wet do you make it?

The great thing about using the light diffuser is that you can make the vermiculite very wet. I use Perlite in my containers and use press and seal on the top to lock in the humidity. Once a week, I'll lift a corner to get a little air flow going through, but basically you put the eggs in and as long as you can see a water level in the bottom, you are fine. I've even seen where some people use pebbles in the bottom. It really doesn't matter as long as it is clean (you don't want to develop mold). The stuff in the bottom just keeps the water from sloshing around and touching the eggs.

I used this method this year and had a 100% hatch rate on the eggs I put in the incubator.

7qt tub ~ I prefer locking lid sterilites
light diffuser panel ~ covering the bottom sitting lightly on the perlite.
perlite ~ 2 inches deep
2 tiny holes place on the long end of the tub towards the top, to allow the tub to breath.
I never have a need to open or air out the eggs during the whole process.

In the incubator the water bottles down below only hold temperatures up or help keep them up, they don't provide any humidity, that's the tub's job.

A proportional thermostat will be your best friend, if you can't afford one using an on/off thermostat will work, but you'll be constantly adjusting it.

You'll also find you don't need a fan in an incubator if you're only using one shelf.

The bottled water that goes on the bottom of the incubator is for heat capacity, not humidity. The water you mix with the vermiculite in the egg tub is what boosts the humidity.

The bottled water is there to stop heat spikes from happening. It takes a long time to heat up water, and a long time to cool it down. Water basically has a lot of "temperature inertia". So the temperature will be rock solid if you wrap your heat tape around a few liters of water bottles and then tape the heat probe to the bottles.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

Okay that was going to be another of my questions, how often to spritz or if you need to change out the vermiculite for new moist vermiculite if the other dries out or how you maintain that. I wonder how much water I would put into a wine chiller to keep the air humid without making it too much so that it hurts the eggs. I think I am going to end up running this thing for months before the eggs come to make sure I have all the temps and everything right lol.

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Running the incubator for awhile is not a bad idea so you can fine tune it before you put eggs in it. As far as the vermiculite staying moist, if you spritz once a week youll be fine. You dont need to change it out. Now if you go with the raised method i got no help for ya there cause i dont do it and never have. I dont have anything against it, i just dont use that method. The best thing to do is research all methods and choose one that works for you. Another option that some have good luck with is maternal incubation. Though i think that method has the most room for error in captive breeding.

Okay I think I have a good idea of what I am going to try. I will have something to regulate the heat that will automatically adjust for me, I do not want to have to rely on myself to adjust it when it gets too high or too low. I will have that wine chiller I am picking up wednesday, I'll have to get some shelves to slide in. I think that I will probably do the raised method so that the vermiculite can be wetter, that way I do not have to worry over if I am spraying too little or too much. I am definitely going to put everything together and make sure its all running smoothly ahead of time, so that I am sure when the eggs go in the environment is right. Thank you everyone for all your help, this really is the best place to get advice. :D

If you put the grating between the vermiculite and the eggs, you can basically make the vermiculite as wet as you like. (I'd still aim for "just sticks together", just to be safe.) Some people even put only water in the bottom with no vermiculite. (I don't like water-only because it dries up a little faster and it can slop aroudn if you move the incubator. But I do like the grating.)

Everyone understands the water bottles at the bottom are to increase heat capacity and stop heat spikes, right? It's not about the humidity. People keep talking about "the water", but there are two completely different reasons for water in an incubator, and the bottled water is not not NOT about humidity.

With my system as a wLk in incubator i use water for humidity. I set the container next to the oil filled heater. Im also dealing with a larger area so i should have been clearer about that. I also cant use a proportional thermostat because they dont make one ti handle the wattages i need. The highest ive found is 700 w and i need at least 900. But listen to loonunit about the water for your application

Also i forgot to add probe placement. I use a dummy tub wiith the same medium mixture and the probe sits suspended in the dummy box. This way i know exactly what is going on in the egg box. Again there are many oppinions on this. But this is how ive always done it and my hatch rate year after year has been awesome.

I had actually seen youtube videos where they put water on the bottom, not bottles of water, just water.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

I had actually seen youtube videos where they put water on the bottom, not bottles of water, just water.

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Keeping the humidity in a tub is much easier than keeping it up in the whole incubator.
Doing a walk in like snake lab describes yes, but in a mini fridge or wine cooler it's not so easy.
I keep my perlite soaked to the point that water is showing through it and I fill it until the water barely touches the bottom of the light diffuser.
The is no need to ever spritz a tub doing it this way, I never added water to any of the 11 clutches we incubated this past season, even with the tiny holes in the side of the tubs.

I'm thinking about getting this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-PT2499-T...=1J4AZAMO6OZUL

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Originally Posted by piedplus

I'm thinking about getting this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-PT2499-T...=1J4AZAMO6OZUL

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Waste of money imo.

Did you read the reviews?

"The degree on the bottom shelf is more than 5 degrees cooler than the top shelf"

"The variance is 4 degrees not 2"

"I cannot recommend this product for folks who incubate under 90 degrees but need humidity over 90% - you can put as much or as little water in whatever form or fashion who wish, but the humidity just refuses to climb above 83% tops."

"Not a reliable unit.
Temperature fluctuates drastically.
Eggs died because temp went too high one hour and too low the next.
I would not recommend this unit."

"The top shelf runs 6 - 7 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the number shown on the LED display, while the bottom shelf is still more than 10 degrees less than the control indicates. I am not opening and closing the door to obtain these readings, I have a thermometer that sits inside the unit."

And the list of issues goes on.

i just read the entire post and i got a lot of questions answered i had as well so thank you. i am going through the same build process as well!

Also, if you start your incubator to get it ready and steady, make up some egg boxes and put them in it to stabilize the temps. If you get an empty incubator stable, it my not be stable once you start putting egg boxes into it. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Waste of money imo.

Did you read the reviews?

"The degree on the bottom shelf is more than 5 degrees cooler than the top shelf"

"The variance is 4 degrees not 2"

"I cannot recommend this product for folks who incubate under 90 degrees but need humidity over 90% - you can put as much or as little water in whatever form or fashion who wish, but the humidity just refuses to climb above 83% tops."

"Not a reliable unit.
Temperature fluctuates drastically.
Eggs died because temp went too high one hour and too low the next.
I would not recommend this unit."

"The top shelf runs 6 - 7 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the number shown on the LED display, while the bottom shelf is still more than 10 degrees less than the control indicates. I am not opening and closing the door to obtain these readings, I have a thermometer that sits inside the unit."

And the list of issues goes on.

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Yes, I read the reviews. I think the first review was the best one. That person got into the techical pluses & minuses. There was one that gave a bad review, exchanged the unit, then gave a good review. Many of the reviewers seemed to have used the unit without testing or experimenting first. I would have a year to experiment with the unit to get the temps and humidity right. So far this is the best ready made unit I've found for under $100. I'm open to suggestions though.

this is what i put in another incubator post...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtcK13Uw1Zo
spooky