Info on Ghost's needed

Im looking to pick up a female ghost soon but was confused on the difference. There are ghosts, orange ghosts, green ghosts, butterscotch ghosts, peach ghosts ect.

If memory serves they are not compatible with eachother but can people tell me their preference. I really like the ghostly look and really want to add it into my projects in the coming years so thought I would ask for some ideas.

Thanks in advance.

Someone has got to have some input. Bad time to post I guess.

I have a male orange ghost, I kinda really like him. Not sure about the others. According to WOBP.com "Ghost - Also known as Hypo or Hypomelanistic. The “Ghost” is a recessive mutation that reduces the black pigmentation. Although there are many different lines of ghosts, they generally follow the same general description. Ghosts are varying shades of yellow, brown, grey and green. Their sheds are always clear much like albinos, with faded dark colors with a faded head. A ghost will always appear to be in shed or always seem to have a hazy appearance."

Here's my 2010 male OG.
http://i54.tinypic.com/oh1phe.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/1p9wfs.jpg

That's a nice looking OG. I was wondering if they were compatible like if I bred a black pastel het ghost to an orange ghost??

In GENERAL most lines of ghosts are compatible.

I don't know which ones aren't compatible, but ones with the following names should be (in addition, are the most common):

- orange ghost
- hypo
- butterscotch ghost
- ghost

Edit:

Just remembered, "desert ghost" is not compatible with the above

Yes I believe they are, it's just a different line of ghost as far as I know :)

pretty sure you would get black pastel double hets or normalls het orange ghost het ghost

orange ghost is a resive gene i think

I think unless stated otherwise, when most people are talking about ghost they are talking about the hypo/orange ghost.

So if that's the case why can't I find pictures of a hypo orange ghost? Or ghost orange ghost. Someone has had to created them by now. Even wobp has nothing on them.

It seems like the majority of ghosts sold today are orange ghosts. I've also heard some aren't compatible but I'm drawing a blank on the details. Orange Ghosts are one of my favorite morphs, they add a lot when combined with others.

From what i have seen Green ghost will not match up with orange or any other ghosts and so on for all others.

So if you breed an OG to a Green ghost you will get DB Hets and so on with the different colors of ghosts. so try to get ones that are of the same color line because there is a really good chance they may not match up. I am not certain if similar colored ghost traits are able to be combined or not, i just know that the green is not compatible with the others for making visual ghosts.

Obviously they are recessive traits.

and the as stated it seems orange ghost is the most common.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

So if that's the case why can't I find pictures of a hypo orange ghost? Or ghost orange ghost. Someone has had to created them by now. Even wobp has nothing on them.

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Hypo and ghost means the same thing. I really love the looks of the butterscotch ghost. As far as compatibillity goes most of your orange ghost lines are compatible. For example last year i bred a orange ghost from outbacks line to a bell line ghost and produced ghosts.

ohh and as far as each line of each color type of ghost(or hypo) i am fairly certain as others said they are compatible.

I think green ghost may be a little different but the rest are compatible. I have no idea though.

Yep the green ghost is a whole other deal.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Hypo and ghost means the same thing. I really love the looks of the butterscotch ghost. As far as compatibillity goes most of your orange ghost lines are compatible. For example last year i bred a orange ghost from outbacks line to a bell line ghost and produced ghosts.

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So you produced hypo orange ghosts? Do you have a picture? What did they look like?

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Originally Posted by Rat160

So you produced hypo orange ghosts? Do you have a picture? What did they look like?

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Hypo and Orange Ghost are the same thing. :cool: He's just saying that he bred two lines together and they were compatible. I'd be carefuly myself and stick to hypo/OG lines only. A lot of the other lines claim compatibility but I've read countless stories of them not being compatible.

Regards,

B

Orange hypo x orange hypo breeding can produce orange, butterscotch, gray, yellow, peach, ect. Some people selectively breed for a certain tint of color. Some people didn't and now we have *insert color* ghost that isn't even that color. Their all the same morph, some came from different wild caught animals, some didn't.

From putting together all I could, there appears to be different lines of green, some compatible, some not. Blue ghost is the one I've herd is not compatible (unless someone has information from someone who has tired it?). also desert ghost is not compatible.

Most of whats out there is all compatible. Pick out something you like, I wouldn't worry about the supposed color attached to the name, it's like worry what line of pastel you have.

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

Hypo and Orange Ghost are the same thing. :cool: He's just saying that he bred two lines together and they were compatible. I'd be carefuly myself and stick to hypo/OG lines only. A lot of the other lines claim compatibility but I've read countless stories of them not being compatible.

Regards,

B

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See this is where I'm confused because there are just ghosts then there are orange ghosts so ghost and orange ghosts wouldn't be the same. They look totally different. So I guess I'm just a torn between a ghost and a OG

You cant make a Hypo Orange Ghost they are the same thing that is why you cant find any pictures. Some breeders call them hypo and some call them orange ghost but ultimately they are the same morph.

Ex. Some breeders sell Hypo Black Pastels and some sell them as Orange Ghost Black Pastels when you look at the pics they are exactly the same morph.

Kind of like Lesser and Lesser Platinum no difference in the morph just less typing.

It's not that complicated

In general:

hypo = ghost = orange ghost = bell line orange ghost, compatible lines of a recessive hypomelanistic trait.

When the original WC animals were imported, they were given a name. One might have been a little more orange in coloration, and was therefore named "orange ghost". When bred to hypos of another line, it turns out that they are the same morph. The polygenetic traits of coloration cause more variation in coloration than the existence of the ghost phenotype in an individual.

Exactly ... really you are going to get the same animal, there is variation in the colors but it's like that with every morph.

It would be interesting to know which lines have been proven not compatible. Not just someones words, but a breeders that has done the pairings.

Hi,

Blue ghosts aren't compatable with the others as far as I know - but they are also far too hard to find for my tastes as I'd love some. :taz:


dr del

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Originally Posted by Rat160

See this is where I'm confused because there are just ghosts then there are orange ghosts so ghost and orange ghosts wouldn't be the same. They look totally different. So I guess I'm just a torn between a ghost and a OG

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They are the same thing. Like all morphs you have different qualities. I've seen some terrible looking Hypos and I've seen some great.

Regards,

B

so let me ask, are these two snakes the same. One is named ghost the other orange ghost. They look completely different. The pictures were borrowed off the net from their respective owners.

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/...160/Ghost4.jpg
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l561/Rat160/og.jpg

So ar eyou saying all ghosts are the same just slightly different in color? Except for the exceptions of course. Just trying to understand.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

So ar eyou saying all ghosts are the same just slightly different in color? Except for the exceptions of course. Just trying to understand.

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Well I think it has been said multiple times in this thread, but yes besides a few exceptions they are all the same. just because it looks different doesn't change what we identify as genetics. Normals vary in color more than hypo ever could, doesn't mean their not normals.

Lemon pastel is still the same as a pastel is it not? The color name given to it means next to nothing, they hardly even look like the color people claim they are half the time. Look for a nice looking animal, forget the colors name.

take a het hypo and breed it to another het hypo, it makes a hypo. doesn't matter what tint of color it is.

Any pics of a blue ghost?

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Originally Posted by Clear

Any pics of a blue ghost?

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http://www.newenglandreptile.com/for...lue-Ghost-line

The majority of ghost lines are compatible. Citrus and desert ghost are a whole different ball game. I have also noticed from orange x orange you can still get a wide range of colors in the offspring which makes it interesting as they mature, some are orange some are yellow and some are blue /green. Buy from somebody you trust.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

so let me ask, are these two snakes the same. One is named ghost the other orange ghost. They look completely different. The pictures were borrowed off the net from their respective owners.

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Don't forget you're looking at an adult vs a hatchling. Those look like the exact same phenotype to me, the "common" hypo variant.

I wish everyone would just drop the Ghost designation and go by the proper one, Hypo. A Ghost ball python would really be a Hypo Anxanthic. All the morphs with double names really confuses a lot of people. Cinnamon Pastel/Cinnamon, Lessor Platinum/Lessor, Hypo/Ghost just to name a few.

You definitely cannot compare a bright orange hatchling to a typically faded out adult hypo :P

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

You definitely cannot compare a bright orange hatchling to a typically faded out adult hypo :P

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^^Jerry hit it on head here^^

Those pictures are an adult and a baby. All BPs look different at different stages.

I prefer to call them Hypo's. That's what they are. Hypo IS Orange Ghost which is also just a Ghost.

I think I get it, but I thought I read something about the lesser being different from the lesser platinum. Not sure what it was though. I think there is too many different forms of the same thing floating around. Like I still dont know the difference between the lesser and the butter. My lesser female looks just like all the butters I have seen. Ive done tons of research and finally found the female ghost I wanted, only to find out that it was pro exotics :( Anyway I will continue looking and thank you all for your input.

No, the Lesser is a Lesser Platinum. Then there is a Platinum which is also called a Platty Daddy. That might be what you're thinking of.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

No, the Lesser is a Lesser Platinum. Then there is a Platinum which is also called a Platty Daddy. That might be what you're thinking of.

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That is what I was thinking of I remember RDR talking about it.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

I wish everyone would just drop the Ghost designation and go by the proper one, Hypo. A Ghost ball python would really be a Hypo Anxanthic. All the morphs with double names really confuses a lot of people. Cinnamon Pastel/Cinnamon, Lessor Platinum/Lessor, Hypo/Ghost just to name a few.

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While I agree, the counter argument is the name ghost came first in ball python due to their obvious ghostly appearance and also why does this particular hypo get called hypo? Fires, Vanillas, Desert Ghosts, Blue ghost, Extreme hypo, *insert other incompatible hypo morphs*. There are plenty of hypos out there, how can you call one proper?

I still call it hypo though, just because in my area, thats what people call it. To me it's a soda/pop thing.

if they are all the same then I think they should all be called hypo. The "Ghost term" should be reserved for the Hypo/Axanthic. But now because of all the names floating around it has been coined "true ghost" Thats why I was so confused because of all the different ghosts and hypos... needs to be simplified. I think it all has to do with people wanting to create something new and those kind of seem like they are stretching... Like if you have a TV and I build the same tv with the same specs but paint it a different color and name it something different... Still your TV.

so super excited, using all the info I got here and lots of looking I bought a 250g female orange ghost tonight. Thanks again guys for all the help.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

While I agree, the counter argument is the name ghost came first in ball python due to their obvious ghostly appearance and also why does this particular hypo get called hypo? Fires, Vanillas, Desert Ghosts, Blue ghost, Extreme hypo, *insert other incompatible hypo morphs*. There are plenty of hypos out there, how can you call one proper?

I still call it hypo though, just because in my area, thats what people call it. To me it's a soda/pop thing.

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There really is no counter argument. Yes the term Ghost was the first one used for this phenotype of ball python, but it was given wrongly. Fires and Vanillas are not Hypos, so I am not sure where you get that one?

Technically, the phenotype of a fire or vanilla is caused by a decrease in melanin.. making them a form of hypomelanism. These traits are incomplete dominant, with the homozygotes being SEVERELY lacking in melanin (more so in the super fire, compared to the super vanilla, but still..) to the point where the super fire isn't a mere hypomelanistic animal, but an actual leucistic animal.

When hypomelanistic animals shed, the shed skin is patternless. Our fire doesn't shed clear does yours? Are Albino's called Hypos? Technically speaking they are lacking in Melanin true. We have quite a few Balls that are lacking black pigment in them. Guess we can start labeling them Hypos as well?:P

Also technically speaking are we supposed to label Lessors, Mojaves, Yellow Bellies, etc. etc to be Hypos?

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

There are two different forms of albinism; a partial lack of the melanin is known as hypomelanism, or hypomelanosis and the total absence of melanin is known as amelanism or amelanosis.

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As I said, technically speaking, Albinos are Hypos. Are we supposed to start calling them Hypo? Is that what you are trying to imply?

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

As I said, technically speaking, Albinos are Hypos. Are we supposed to start calling them Hypo? Is that what you are trying to imply?

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Their amel not hypo so you don't have to worry about them. Albino is too general, start calling them amels.

My point was there are plenty of hypos, You claim the name ghost was given wrongly, how do you decided which one is "proper". You can argue to use the name hypo, you can argue the name ghost. Their just labels for an allele we think we can identify.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

My point was there are plenty of hypos, You claim the name ghost was given wrongly, how do you decided which one is "proper". You can argue to use the name hypo, you can argue the name ghost. Their just labels for an allele we think we can identify.

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True they are just labels.
The name "Ghost" was given improperly to Hypo ball pythons. The Ghost morph in other snakes is a Hypomelanistic (Hypo) & Anerythristic double recessive. So why should it be different for Ball Pythons? Snows are the same as other snakes, being Albino & Axanthic double recessive. Most if not all other simple base color morphs equate the same to other reptiles so why not the Ghost & Hypo?

The Hypo trait is actually quite similar to amelanism. Tyrosinase is produced but is blocked from gaining access into the melanophores. Therefore, the amounts of melanin produced are substantially reduced. Often areas which would normally appear solid black are almost translucent. Additionally many specimens seem to have reduced amounts of melanophores present. This may simply be the result of selection for the brighter coloration in captive populations. It is likely that several different alleles may be at work here, all lumped under the term hypomelanism by herpetoculturists.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

True they are just labels.
So why should it be different for Ball Pythons? Most if not all other simple base color morphs equate the same to other reptiles so why not the Ghost & Hypo?

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Sunglow, Fire, Butter, Granite, Phantom, Platinum, Sulfur, Whiteout are all names that are used differently between balls and corns. Pearl for boas. Tiger for retics and amazon tree boas.

You argue just to argue. To each their own I guess.
I said base. I should have broken it down and made it more specific for you as I knew you were going to do this, as usual.

Of course there are hundreds of morphs and they are not all going to be the same across the board, but one would expect that a morph named after a particular pigment production would be the same as any other animal carrying the same pigmentation. But what do I know. Obviously not as much as you do, right?

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

You argue just to argue. To each their own I guess.
I said base. I should have broken it down and made it more specific for you as I knew you were going to do this, as usual.

Of course there are hundreds of morphs and they are not all going to be the same across the board, but one would expect that a morph named after a particular pigment production would be the same as any other animal carrying the same pigmentation. But what do I know. Obviously not as much as you do, right?

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It's not about knowing more, you claimed each base morph was used the same across the board, which I see each species does it's own thing. Besides platinum, all those listed above are base morphs in one species, but im just arguing to argue?

You claim a name was given wrongly because it is a hypomelanistic morph, but we have multiple hypomelanistic morphs, so what makes this one the correct one? No one can deny the ghost/hypo is hypomelanistic, but no one can claim the fire isn't either. Just because it is hypo doesn't mean you HAVE to call it that and any other name is wrong.

Their labels to identify alleles, nothing wrong here. I guess unless all the morphs listed above are wrong also? I'm done arguing now.