Warning to anyone dealing with (mohammad . Mutaionsonly)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

too cut a long story short im posting this so as others dont fall into the same trap i have ....
i traded some royals about 4 weeks ago with (mohammad)for one of my spied hachling all seemed ok on arrival apart from a pied that had a big lump on its nose which i wasnt told about , anyway i decided to take the animals (which has now turned out to a big mistake on my part)
i housed these snakes alongside 3 of mine which were 100% healthy and which im hopeing still are .
2 weeks into haveing the royals they started developing RI wich i started treating with f10 and visted the vets , when i first contacted mohammad about this he was straight away saying he would pay for the vet bills .. a day later it had gone from pay for the vet bills to pay for 2 vet bills (which he did ) then another came down with RI , today ive recived the results back from the vets and they have stated its not something that would have just happened to the snakes over the last few weeks also to compound the problem 2 of the said snakes have started bleeding from the cloaca with the vet has told me that this 2 is a problem that couldnt have happend over the course of just a few weeks.
ive spoken to mohammad about this and have offered to get proof from the vet but he didnt want to no , all i wanted was the snakes that i have got from him to be returned and to be reimburst for them,but he is adament it is not his fault even tho the vets has stated otherwise and ive offered to provide proof...

to top it all off the vet gave the snakes 50/50 of making it which isnt good to say the least when speaking again to mohammad
he said he would have no trouble to have took them back if they were all heathly,but then that statetment kinda defeted the point !
i no from alot of people that mohammad is a trader of royals in a big way and has a high turnover of snakes due to this i feel that anyone buying from this guy needs to be very very carefull as the snakes may seem heathly but just because an animal looks healthy doesnt mean it is BE WARNED!!

You didnt quarantine your new animals? On that part its your fault for subjecting your snakes to the newcomers and whatever little illness they might have. They started getting an RI 2 weeks after you had them? thats why a month quarantine is so nice, just maybe something to think about for next time.

:O :O, As stated above no QT?! Is your vet an experienced reptile vet?

also you said they DEVELOPED symptoms 2 weeks after you had them.. seems to me this was a housing/care issue, and he paid your vet bills. Plus you chose to keep them even after you noticed they had issues. Plus no QT. Id say he made a reasonable effort to help you even though he didnt have to... just my .02

If you had the snakes for 2 weeks, it's difficult to say they "developed" RI in those two weeks from something they had prior to shipping. Normally(not always, of course) shipping brings any weaknesses or illnesses out in a snake. But if they took two weeks, that's awfully iffy.

If Mohammad offered to pay the vet bills on the snakes HE shipped to you, that's really nice of him. But if you chose to keep substandard snakes, and he said you could return them, you assume all liability for care. If he did not say you could return them(at the time of shipping, I understand he said no return NOW), then he should pay vet bills.

And yes, quarentine ALWAYS. If you're asking him to pay vet bills on animals he did not send to you(your animals which were exposed to the new animals) then that seems a bit unreasonable. You should always practice some quarentine so that this sort of thing doesn't happen, although I understand hindsight is always 20/20.

I quarentine EVERYTHING, including snakes from people I trust totally. I put one of my OWN animals into quarentine because it came into contact with a new animal. Paranoid? Maybe. Safer? Definitely.

Good luck with the ill snakes. I hope they turn around for you and get better.

[QUOTE=smart1;1674598]
today ive recived the results back from the vets and they have stated its not something that would have just happened to the snakes over the last few weeks [QUOTE]

I don't see how a vet identifying a RI, that you say developed over the two weeks you had them, could suggest with any certainty that the infection started prior to you getting the snakes.

Anyway, he has offered to pay vet bills.

He has offered you a full refund if you return the animals.

Sounds to me like he is a stand up guy that is doing everything he can to try to fix the situation. In fact, he is going above and beyond at this point what he has to do.

Don't know why you would come on here trying to flame him... What else do you expect him to do? LOL, if anything he can refer people to this post to prove he has good customer service!

You cannot flame someone when YOU are 100% at fault:colbert::colbert::colbert:

You didnt QT.

He paid vet bills and would have taken them back.

Again....... YOU did NOT QT so your snakes are now open to any problems and who is to prove the RI might not have come from your end?? (First thing that pops into my thoughts)

I'm sorry that you have run into this and the proverbial dead horse has been well beaten with pointing out the lack of QT..

I'm no vet but I have experience with RI's and I can tell you I've had snakes develop RI's due to the stress of shipping and being in a new home in a matter of just a few week's. So in that fact your vet is incorrect I've seen it in my collection first hand..

Also people tend to focus on keeping their existing animals away from the new ones when the QT, but its two fold..there is the possibility that the new snakes might have caught something from your snakes and not the other way around..

Thanks for the info..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by llovelace

:O :O, As stated above no QT?! Is your vet an experienced reptile vet?

---

i housed the new snakes in a rub rack with 3 of my others so they didnt come into direct contact and the 3 i already had have been with me for 3 years and have been vet check and come back clear and yes the my vet is reptile qualified!

The whole point of this post was to inform others of the problems I have come across when dealing with this breeder, the fact I wasn't told about the lump the fact my vet has stated the blood from the cloaca found on two of the animals could not have been contracted in the few weeks that I'd had them and the fact that it wasn't just one snake we were dealing with but a good number of them with issues, all these things coupled with the fact that my vet gave them a 50/50 chance of survival, this is after treatment is testament to anyone who deals with this guy to be extra carefull...

Do you have this guys info... I want to buy a snake from him. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

i housed the new snakes in a rub rack with 3 of my others so they didnt come into direct contact and the 3 i already had have been with me for 3 years and have been vet check and come back clear and yes the my vet is reptile qualified!

---

Some illnesses are airborne, which is why people recommend quarantining new animals in a WHOLE separate building then the established collection (different air supply). Since not everyone has the means to do so, housing the new ones in a separate room is your next best bet. There doesn't need to be direct contact for other animals to get sick (an example: mites. Mites can hitch a ride on your clothes from an infected animal and if you have one on you and you handle an established collection snake then that snake might contract them from your clothing. Doesn't need to be snake to snake physical contact).

What did the vet say about the bleeding? Did he say why they are bleeding?

Okay, I want to make sure I understand the situation completely.
1.) you traded one snake for multiple from him, correct?
2.) you were not informed about a lump on one of the snake, did you not see any pictures before you agreed to the trade?
3.) you put the snakes in a rack with 3 snakes you've had for a while, did any of these get sick or was it just the ones you got from him?
4.) why didn't you quarantine?
5.) how did your vet determine that none of these issues were caused by your care? Did you possibly miss the signs on RI when you first got them?
6.) he agreed to pay the vet bills for the sick snakes, correct?
7.) you decided you want to send the snakes back for a full refund, but he told you he would only take them back if they were healthy, which they obviously aren't, correct?
8.) the snakes have more than just a RI, do you know what else is wrong with them?

Blood from the cloaca is not a health issue. It's a SYMPTOM. If your vet "diagnosed" it as a condition, your vet is not a reptile expert. If your vet said that an RI cannot be contracted in 2 weeks, your vet is not a reptile expert.

If your vet cannot say WHY the snake has blood on the cloaca, he cannot say that it's from something two weeks ago. It's a SYMPTOM, not a condition. That's like saying a snake has missing scales and so obviously it's from two weeks ago. It could be from several things, some of which would be long-standing, some of which could be new.

Sorry you have ill snakes. If he sent you snakes with issues, it's bad. But you have to show they were ill prior to the two weeks. That's more than enough time for them to become ill.

he paid for YOUR vet bill???? he/she sounds like a person that goes a step beyond......
ill put he/she on my plus list of "good guys"..
spooky

Seems strange to me that this is one of a good number of forums I've posted on and this seems to be the only one were people are saying I'm at fault..
The blood from the cloaca was a symptom correct but the vet could couldn't say wat the problem was without doing further testing.she had speculated it might have been due to stomach issues.
The ri I was told developed because the animals weren't 100% heathly and being moved about alot.

Tbf wat ever way anyone on here wants to dress this up the matter is he sold snakes that were not 100%healthy and didn't tell me about a possible tumour on one of the snakes heads , just says to me if someone doesn't tell you about one problem wat else are they not telling you !
Most likley he new about the snakes having issues but still passed them on anyone thisout a thought for the person taking them on ...
As ive already stated the qt is irrelevant as the 3 snakes were 100% healthy and vet checked to just be sure bloods and a full workup were carried out.

Bottom line people who don't tell the truth are usually hiding other problems as I've found out!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

Seems strange to me that this is one of a good number of forums I've posted on and this seems to be the only one were people are saying I'm at fault..

---

This is by far the best, biggest, and most knowledgeable site there is.:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

The ri I was told developed because the animals weren't 100% heathly and being moved about alot.

---

A 100% healthy animal CAN get an RI if they are stressed enough. How much stress do you think shipping causes??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

Tbf wat ever way anyone on here wants to dress this up the matter is he sold snakes that were not 100%healthy and didn't tell me about a possible tumour on one of the snakes heads , just says to me if someone doesn't tell you about one problem wat else are they not telling you !

---

you cannot prove they were not healthy BUT yes, IF he knew about the tumor you should have been informed. Did you not get pics off all animals before transaction?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

Most likely he new about the snakes having issues but still passed them on anyone this out a thought for the person taking them on ...As ive already stated the qt is irrelevant as the 3 snakes were 100% healthy and vet checked to just be sure bloods and a full workup were carried out.

---

Really?? Thats what YOU want to believe even though he paid your vet bills? Seems it would have been cheaper for him to keep them or put them down rather than go through the hassles of selling them, dealing with a pissed off customer, paying the customers vet bills, and then having said customer bash him.

(This is my last post on this thread just because you do not want to open your eyes and realize there are things out of our control and he has done way more than most people would have. :stupidme::stupidme: )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

i traded some royals about 4 weeks ago with (mohammad)for one of my spied hachling all seemed ok on arrival apart from a pied that had a big lump on its nose which i wasnt told about , anyway i decided to take the animals

---

You identified the lump on the snakes nose immediately on arrival. You decided to keep the snake anyway. That is 100% on you. For all we know the bump could have been a result of something that happened during shipping. The seller didn't do anything wrong. The seller doesn't have to do anything about it now when you have already accepted it as is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

The whole point of this post was to inform others of the problems I have come across when dealing with this breeder

---

Understood. We appreciate the feedback. We now know that Mohammed is a stand up guy worthy of our business. (and by the way, I didn't even know who Mohammed was before this thread so thank you!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

Seems strange to me that this is one of a good number of forums I've posted on and this seems to be the only one were people are saying I'm at fault..

---

Thank you! We take great pride as a community in standing above the other forums out there. We won't allow a sellers name to be drug through the dirt, especially in a case like this where the seller went above and beyond what he had to do to provide excellent customer service.

Something everyone should consider before starting a thread like this... There are two things that happen in an inquiries / feedback thread:

1.) It is a searchable reference for future transactions that someone can use to research a SELLER prior to buying from someone they haven't worked with before.

AND

2.) Is is a searchable reference for future transactions that someone can use to research a BUYER prior to selling to someone they haven't worked with before.

After reading this thread, I for one will politely decline if you ever made me an offer on something I was selling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

Tbf wat ever way anyone on here wants to dress this up the matter is he sold snakes that were not 100%healthy and didn't tell me about a possible tumour on one of the snakes heads , just says to me if someone doesn't tell you about one problem wat else are they not telling you !
Most likley he new about the snakes having issues but still passed them on anyone thisout a thought for the person taking them on ...

---

I ask again, did you not see pictures before you argeed to the trade? I agree that he may have sold you sick snakes but there is no way to truely prove that. He agreed to pay the vet bills even though you can't prove they were sick with you got them. To me he sounds like a pretty stand up guy and you are an angry customer with buyers remorse because you didn't think the trade through well enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

As ive already stated the qt is irrelevant as the 3 snakes were 100% healthy and vet checked to just be sure bloods and a full workup were carried out.

---

If that's what you think the purpose of quarantine is then you honestly don't understand it. Yes quarantine can protect your new additions from anything your collection has but the primary purpose of quarantine is to protect your established collection from the new additions. You expressed a concern that the snakes you've had for a while might become sick because of this, and this is why you quarantine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kinra

I ask again, did you not see pictures before you argeed to the trade? I agree that he may have sold you sick snakes but there is no way to truely prove that. He agreed to pay the vet bills even though you can't prove they were sick with you got them. To me he sounds like a pretty stand up guy and you are an angry customer with buyers remorse because you didn't think the trade through well enough.



If that's what you think the purpose of quarantine is then you honestly don't understand it. Yes quarantine can protect your new additions from anything your collection has but the primary purpose of quarantine is to protect your established collection from the new additions. You expressed a concern that the snakes you've had for a while might become sick because of this, and this is why you quarantine.

---

i didnt see any pictures of the animals and tbh if i had i would have thought long and hard about buying them .
one thing that has made me lol in all of this is how there seems to be no concern for the buyer in all of this , ive now been emailed buy 3 people stateing they have had issues when dealing with mohamad .. so it isnt just me..

if people want to make the mistake of buying from him then thats up to them.. but my testement still stands, to a person who trades alot of animals and always is getting new animals in there all not gonna be in 100% healthly weather the buyer is aware of this or not ...

Sooner or later, your collection is going to be exposed to some thing awful because you have no quarentine. It's irrelevant until you lose every snake you own because you can't be bothered to quarentine new arrivals.

I don't think I'd want to deal to you with how you're blaming the seller for illness you can't prove came from him, for a lump on the nose that you CHOSE to keep, after he paid the vet bills for animals he doesn't know were sick at all.

And there's always those vague "people who had the SAME result as me!" who never emerge, only contact the OP. Whatever forums are saying you're right, go cheer to them about how terrible it is that the seller paid your vet bills after you had them two full weeks and chose to keep them in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Sooner or later, your collection is going to be exposed to some thing awful because you have no quarentine. It's irrelevant until you lose every snake you own because you can't be bothered to quarentine new arrivals.

I don't think I'd want to deal to you with how you're blaming the seller for illness you can't prove came from him, for a lump on the nose that you CHOSE to keep, after he paid the vet bills for animals he doesn't know were sick at all.

And there's always those vague "people who had the SAME result as me!" who never emerge, only contact the OP. Whatever forums are saying you're right, go cheer to them about how terrible it is that the seller paid your vet bills after you had them two full weeks and chose to keep them in the first place.

---

yeh thats all right ovcourse what was i thinking im the one totally in the wrong and im sorry for any destress i may have coursed by posting this thread on here ....

give me a break please ... how many times do i have to say the same thing only a diffrent way the qt is whats in question the here is it, the issues that are in question is this person taking the piss out of people like sending me a snake with a suspected tumour on its head ! the fact that i chose to take it is another irrelevent question ... i should have been told !!
the ri came on with me but was because the snakes were in poor health anyway was the reason for why it happened .. i wasnt in no way at fault
the blood from the cloaca a possible stomach issue IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT !!

ANIMALS THAT ARENT IN 100% HEALTH SHOULD NOT BE SOLD END OF!!!
and that is the cold hard facts of this story!

He should not send a snake with a "tumour". But then you decided to keep it, so what would you have the guy do? What is the "tumour"? Is it a nose rub or a tumour or a swelling or what?

Are you saying that a healthy snake cannot get an RI? Experianced people already said they've had healthy snakes have come down with an RI. Two weeks is enough time for an RI to begin. Snakes with RI are healthy before they get the RI unless you believe they hatched with an RI and have had it since hatching, they were healthy at some point and now have an RI. The issue is WHEN/WHY they got the RI.

How can you possibly say the blood from the cloaca isn't your fault when you don't know what is causing it?

Animals that are sick shouldn't be sold. You have yet to have any proof that the animals were sick when they were sold. You haven't actually proven you have snakes that are sick now, although I'll give you benefit of a doubt in that and assume that the snakes NOW have an RI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

yeh thats all right ovcourse what was i thinking im the one totally in the wrong and im sorry for any destress i may have coursed by posting this thread on here ....

give me a break please ... how many times do i have to say the same thing only a diffrent way the qt is whats in question the here is it, the issues that are in question is this person taking the piss out of people like sending me a snake with a suspected tumour on its head ! the fact that i chose to take it is another irrelevent question ... i should have been told !!
the ri came on with me but was because the snakes were in poor health anyway was the reason for why it happened .. i wasnt in no way at fault
the blood from the cloaca a possible stomach issue IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT !!

ANIMALS THAT ARENT IN 100% HEALTH SHOULD NOT BE SOLD END OF!!!
and that is the cold hard facts of this story!

---

Your right people are focusing on the fact that you didn't quarantine your snakes and that could be in part because everyone here believes quarantine to be extremely important because it is and it was stupid on your part not to quarantine them.

You knowingly kept the snakes after you noticed problems when they arrived. You could have sent them back then and you wouldn't be in this mess. If you want more support than post vet reports and pictures, but still expect some backlash.

I agree that animals that are sick should not be sold but have you considered the fact that maybe he didn't know they were sick, I mean it did take you 2 weeks after receiving them to notice. The guy is paying your vet bills, which I honestly don't think he has to. If you want support start offering proof.

Also it wasn't the smartest idea in the world to agree to a trade/sale without seeing what you were getting.

Please post a picture of the "Huge Tumor"

You keep saying he sent you this snake with a tumor on its head...

First of all...you didnt see pictures of it before he sent it. Who's to say it wasnt there when he sent it?

To be straightforward...how do we know for certain that the lump was present when you first received it? It sounds like the first time you contacted the seller was when you noticed that there were RI problems when you were ready to take them to the vet! From what I read...thats 2 weeks AFTER you received them! Now it sounds like you're trying to say that you noticed it right away when you got it but with everything else you've said so far...how do we know that this is truthful?

Face it, you made a bad mistake. You didnt QT them. And now it sounds like youre finding other things to bolster your disapproval of this seller because you know that you're in the wrong to deflect the problems you are having on someone else.

At least...this is what it all sounds like to me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

too cut a long story short im posting this so as others dont fall into the same trap i have ....
i traded some royals about 4 weeks ago with (mohammad)for one of my spied hachling all seemed ok on arrival apart from a pied that had a big lump on its nose which i wasnt told about , anyway i decided to take the animals (which has now turned out to a big mistake on my part)
i housed these snakes alongside 3 of mine which were 100% healthy and which im hopeing still are .
2 weeks into haveing the royals they started developing RI wich i started treating with f10 and visted the vets , when i first contacted mohammad about this he was straight away saying he would pay for the vet bills .. a day later it had gone from pay for the vet bills to pay for 2 vet bills (which he did ) then another came down with RI , today ive recived the results back from the vets and they have stated its not something that would have just happened to the snakes over the last few weeks also to compound the problem 2 of the said snakes have started bleeding from the cloaca with the vet has told me that this 2 is a problem that couldnt have happend over the course of just a few weeks.
ive spoken to mohammad about this and have offered to get proof from the vet but he didnt want to no , all i wanted was the snakes that i have got from him to be returned and to be reimburst for them,but he is adament it is not his fault even tho the vets has stated otherwise and ive offered to provide proof...

to top it all off the vet gave the snakes 50/50 of making it which isnt good to say the least when speaking again to mohammad
he said he would have no trouble to have took them back if they were all heathly,but then that statetment kinda defeted the point !
i no from alot of people that mohammad is a trader of royals in a big way and has a high turnover of snakes due to this i feel that anyone buying from this guy needs to be very very carefull as the snakes may seem heathly but just because an animal looks healthy doesnt mean it is BE WARNED!!

---

Apparently the OP has also posted this same post at the Captive Bred Reptiles Forum...Appears to me that hes trying to do a little "CYA'ing". I'd let the people of that forum know that there appears to be more to this story than it seems, but the forum requires you to be a member for more than a day before you can post.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums....aionsonly.html

There's about 6 forums this thread is currenty running on,if you had taken the time to read my previous post you would have seen I said ( this is the only forum) I've got people telling me im in the wrong!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawbbeh

Apparently the OP has also posted this same post at the Captive Bred Reptiles Forum...Appears to me that hes trying to do a little "CYA'ing". I'd let the people of that forum know that there appears to be more to this story than it seems, but the forum requires you to be a member for more than a day before you can post.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums....aionsonly.html

---

ok the fact of the matter is, 2 weeks is a long time for the RI to have come out. Shipping a snake and the stress associated with it, will weaken the snake's immune system, so if the snake was sick before shipping, I would expect the snake to show signs of distress after 3 or 4 days. Quarantine is not just to keep your old snakes healthy, but also to make sure the new snakes are kept at different conditions, they need to have higher temps for one, to help them cope with the stress of travel. Any new snake that I get will be housed at 90-95 degrees for at least a week to prevent any possible infection while they are susceptible.

2 weeks is plenty of time for the new snakes to have caught something from your snakes. Your snakes might not be showing signs of infection because they do not have a low immune system from shipping and relocation, but yes they might be the source of the infection. Also and very likely, the infection was caught during transport while the snakes were cooler.

Do you have the name of the virus? If you don't, you have no way of knowing it's incubation period, but most RI have an incubation period of less then 2 weeks, so I would presume the infection was caught after they arrived at your house.

THAT IS WHAT EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO TELL YOU. YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT THESE SNAKES WERE SICK BEFORE THEY GOT TO YOUR PLACE, EVERYTHING YOU ARE DESCRIBING POINTS TO YOUR CARE, NOT THE SELLER.

I hope you understand now why we are all saying this guy is a good seller. Paying for vet bills for something that has a good chance of coming from your care was very nice of him.

For the lump on the head and the bleeding in the snakes, have you ever thought that the shipping company might be at fault? If you don't have a biopsy of the lump, and a confirmed cause for the bleeding, to me it sounds like your snakes had a very rough trip, and yes that would also make them even more susceptible to infections.

All of this is not to bash on you, just to make you realize that before you bash someone else, you might want to look at the facts more closely.

Still waiting for "Tumor" pics.

(Not that it will make a difference because you still CHOSE to keep it... but still want to see what you are talking about)

Anybody that sees a post in another forum about this should kindly refer everone to this thread.... It is only fair to the seller.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smart1

yeh thats all right ovcourse what was i thinking im the one totally in the wrong and im sorry for any destress i may have coursed by posting this thread on here ....

give me a break please ... how many times do i have to say the same thing only a diffrent way the qt is whats in question the here is it, the issues that are in question is this person taking the piss out of people like sending me a snake with a suspected tumour on its head ! the fact that i chose to take it is another irrelevent question ... i should have been told !!
the ri came on with me but was because the snakes were in poor health anyway was the reason for why it happened .. i wasnt in no way at fault
the blood from the cloaca a possible stomach issue IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT !!

ANIMALS THAT ARENT IN 100% HEALTH SHOULD NOT BE SOLD END OF!!!
and that is the cold hard facts of this story!

---

First, none of the points are irrelevant.

Secondly - if the RI "came on" with you - and YOU weren't able to identify that they weren't 100% healthy when you first received them, then why do you think Mohammed would have recognized that they were sick when he shipped them as you are ascertaining?

If they were SO sick, and it took 2 weeks for symptoms to show before YOU recognized them, then why do you assert that Mohammed knowingly sent sick snakes to you, when they appeared healthy enough for you to dis-regard quarantine and put them in the same rack as your established collection?

Simply put the poster of this thread has no business keeping snakes. They also have no right to bad mouth a breeder that has gone above and beyond to help out his snakes. The poster is at fault in almost every way I can think of and if I was a judge I would have thrown this case out a long time ago.

On a seperate note I dont know fi you can do this but it would be nice to have this persons bad mouthing post tossed off the forum so the breeder doesnt get any bad rap for being a responsible and caring breeder.

Again, no business keeping snakes if this is how you are going to act.

my .02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat160

On a seperate note I dont know fi you can do this but it would be nice to have this persons bad mouthing post tossed off the forum so the breeder doesnt get any bad rap for being a responsible and caring breeder.

---

Ok, I said I was done but you made me lye:rofl::rofl:

Wouldnt want it removed because it shows the "other" side of the complaints. "Mohammad" could use this thread as a commercial to up his sales;)