Lesserbee vs Butterbee?

I know this isn't the first time I've asked a similar question... lol. But please bear with me. This will be my very first male and female pair, with the intent to breed. So I'm a little indecisive at the moment, and trying to figure out what will be the best. I have a a very nice lesser platinum male, trying to decide on a female for him.

It's between a lesserbee and a butterbee. Both are the same price. I'm just trying to figure out what will give me the best possible clutch. By that I mean the best looking snakes, that maybe I will keep for the future, or sell a few to raise the funds to further get into this. :D I know both will make BEL's, along with the same morphs as the parents. But if my understanding is right, the butterbee can also make lesserbees?

So I dunno... I really like both snakes. I suppose the lesser wins a bit more than my eyes, because the butter has some yellow tinge to her. I know that's not a bad thing, just personally don't care for it. Really like the lesser's creams and tans. But from a breeding standpoint, that's probably irrelevant.

Would appreciate any thoughts and opinions. Honestly, I really want to buy both. But funds wise that's not an option at the moment. So I have to pick one! ha ha

I would go with a butterbee. Super lessers appear to have a chance for bug eyes.

Or you could get a bumblebee and go for lesserbees as well as queenbees (and pastel lessers).

In my opinion I wouldn't bred a Lesser male to a Lesser Bee or Butter Bee, because a Super Lesser Spider or / ButterLesser Spider both will just look like BEL's, so you will possibly be selling triple co-dom animals at double co-dom prices, which seems like a waste to me.

If you are looking for a double morph female to bred to your Lesser my recommendation would be a Black Pewter, Black Pin, or Spinner.

I'd go with a Lesserbee. If you go Butterbee and happen to make another bee, you wouldnt know if its a Lesser or Butter bee.

Also, Lesser x Lesser, Butter x Butter, Lesser x Butter can all make bug eyes.

Oh and if making money is your issue, you can sell it as a poss. Spider I guess. I say breed for the snakes you desire to make, not what you can make.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

I'd go with a Lesserbee. If you go Butterbee and happen to make another bee, you wouldnt know if its a Lesser or Butter bee.

Also, Lesser x Lesser, Butter x Butter, Lesser x Butter can all make bug eyes.

Oh and if making money is your issue, you can sell it as a poss. Spider I guess. I say breed for the snakes you desire to make, not what you can make.

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You can usually tell the difference between a butterbee and a lesserbee. Butterbees tend to have a lot more yellow to them.

I would still go with a bumblebee though, as someone else mentioned, selling a triple morph gene at the price of a double morph would be a waste.

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Originally Posted by Adam Chandler

In my opinion I wouldn't bred a Lesser male to a Lesser Bee or Butter Bee, because a Super Lesser Spider or / ButterLesser Spider both will just look like BEL's, so you will possibly be selling triple co-dom animals at double co-dom prices, which seems like a waste to me.

If you are looking for a double morph female to bred to your Lesser my recommendation would be a Black Pewter, Black Pin, or Spinner.

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Adam nailed it. however, if you really like BELs, you could simply pick up a female lesser/butter and save yourself some money on the front end. all depends on what you're trying to produce. lastly, while it's been shown that lesser x lesser has the potential to yield offspring with bug eyes, it's not terribly common, and it is the whitest leucistic out there.

edit: or if you're dead set on a double co-dom female, a firefly is another good choice. gives you the potential to make fire lessers and pastel lessers, both of which look great.

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Originally Posted by Adam Chandler

In my opinion I wouldn't bred a Lesser male to a Lesser Bee or Butter Bee, because a Super Lesser Spider or / ButterLesser Spider both will just look like BEL's, so you will possibly be selling triple co-dom animals at double co-dom prices, which seems like a waste to me.

If you are looking for a double morph female to bred to your Lesser my recommendation would be a Black Pewter, Black Pin, or Spinner.

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Maybe this could help identify that triple co-dom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgDiCZ_IPFY

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

You can usually tell the difference between a butterbee and a lesserbee. Butterbees tend to have a lot more yellow to them.

I would still go with a bumblebee though, as someone else mentioned, selling a triple morph gene at the price of a double morph would be a waste.

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While usually you can tell the difference. A Butter can still passed as a Lesser and vice versa. Perhaps the buyer doesn't have such a great eye to be able to differentiate the very similar morphs, or perhaps the breeder themselves has low quality animals which can be mistaken for something else.

Butter = Lesser | Lesser = Butter.

Going by WOBP pics the butterbee and lesserbee look exactly the same :rolleye2:
In fact their butterbee looks more like my lesserbee than their lesserbee :P

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Originally Posted by Clear

Butter = Lesser | Lesser = Butter.

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+1

If they are the same morph, they are at least different lines. I spent a long time shopping around for my pastel butter, and the difference was pretty obvious except in a few cases.

If butters and lessers are the same thing, so are cinnamons and black pastels.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

If they are the same morph, they are at least different lines. I spent a long time shopping around for my pastel butter, and the difference was pretty obvious except in a few cases.

If butters and lessers are the same thing, so are cinnamons and black pastels.

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very generally speaking
cinnamon = brown
black pastel = black


Unless you want to argue that lemon pastels are different morph from other types of pastel. They are different lines, lesser originated from RDR and I don't know where butter came from, but its just like the different lines of pastel.

Every year as more lessers and butters are bred. The difference is blending in each direction making it pretty obvious the blushing and yellow is not just the lesser/butter gene but also one or more of the other thousands of genes we can't identify. Butters can look like lessers now and lessers can look like butters. same morph.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

If they are the same morph, they are at least different lines. I spent a long time shopping around for my pastel butter, and the difference was pretty obvious except in a few cases.

If butters and lessers are the same thing, so are cinnamons and black pastels.

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Yes to the first part, No to the second.

The difference is pretty obvious when quality morphs are used. Most of the pastel butter/lessers out there are crap. Crap produces more crap. A few years ago I came across an great example of a pastel butter. One of the best I have seen (sadly he died). I am still on the look out for a female pastel butter that will suite my standards it I have found only one out of hundreds I have seen.

Have any of you worked with Lesser's/ Butters? I have I have produced about 40 Lesser's/Butters. They are the same just a different name for the high yellow Lesser.

Lesser's vary so much that clutch mates can look like both so called different lines. Once you breed your Lesser's too a host of different females you will see what I'm talking about.;)

Thank you for all the replies everyone! Very much appreciated. Also, that video was nuts. I had no idea they would show up like that under a blacklight. So cool.

Guess I still have some thinking to do... I must say though that, to me at least, the difference between a lesser and butter jumps right out. At least with quality examples of the morphs, as Clear said. It took me a long time to pick out my lesser, and he's night and day from butters. No yellow in him whatsoever, and a different pattern. Same thing with the Bees. I dunno, maybe I'm just inexperienced. :D

Here's a picture of the butterbee I'm thinking of... Sorry, not the greatest picture ever. Any thoughts? Is she good color / markings wise? Breeder said she was a hold-back.


http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y...tre1522/30.jpg

I am to picky to give you my input on that butterbee. I have only found two that I have ever liked and both was sold before I could even contact the guy.

Butter or Lesser?
http://i.imgur.com/2lRjQ.jpg

Butter or Lesser?
http://i.imgur.com/AJxNS.jpg

Butter or Lesser?
http://i.imgur.com/HIzmP.jpg

In general, I'm quite picky as well, though I must say that I do like that lesserbee. It's not typically a morph that I am too fond of as they often have too much spotting for my taste, but I think that one's quite lovely.

@clear, I'd call all of those "lessers," though I also agree that they're different bloodlines of the same morph. The 3rd one looks a lot like my lesser male (who is directly traceable to RDR's "Platty Daddy," for what it's worth, which probably isn't much :rolleyes: )

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Originally Posted by Mike.P

Here's a picture of the butterbee I'm thinking of... Sorry, not the greatest picture ever. Any thoughts? Is she good color / markings wise? Breeder said she was a hold-back.


http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y...tre1522/30.jpg

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That's a good looking butterbee. :gj: