A little worried about my ball passing her mice

Frankly im a little concerned about how infrequently she's been defecating. My fiance says that he cleaned out some feces mid september, but she's eaten quite a bit since then, and I havent seen anything but urates lately. Heres her feeding chart for the last month. *Just for the record, her feedings are so close together because shes pretty under weight. Its temorary until she's an appropriate weight for her age and size*

9/9-Fuzzy
9/16-Fuzzy
Poop
9/23-Fuzzy
9/27-Fuzzy
9/30-Small Mouse
10/3-Small Mouse
10/6-Small Mouse


I cleaned out the substrate again today while my fiance was feeding her, and there was nothing but urates. Should I be worried? Five meals no poop?

Hatchlings and small juveniles can go quite awhile without pooping. This is because they are using almost everything you feed them to gain weight and grow.
Since your little female is already under weight she may not have anything to poop out.

Also from seeing your pics and reading your other thread; if I remember correctly you said she was 8-9 months old and 150 grams; I would try to get her switched over to rat pups and get her on a 5-7 day feeding schedule.

i'm not sure, but for an eight month old bp, it should be eating larger than a small mouse. how underweight is yours?
mine is only 5-6 months old and already pounding weaned - small rats, but on longer time intervals, maybe 6-7 days once.
according to the folks here, young bp tend to defecate less as they are absorbing more from their food, basically its part of the growing process.

mine pooped after her 4th meal since her first poop.

Thats good to hear. Ive been feeding her more frequently in order to get her to a better weight, but as of today before she ate she's still only 174G. Im assuming some of that weight is whats left from those mice she ate. Am I feeding her too frequently then? She's taken every meal ive offered her since we got over her anorexia. There was one meal she didnt seem too enthused and missed her mark twice, but every other time shes eaten it only took half a second for her to strike and coil.

Beleive me I would LOVE to get her on rat pups but I cant seem to find any. Hell I think she's just now going to be able to get down a medium mouse safely.. But I've looked at Petsmart, Todays Pet, and Petco and I havet seen any frozen rats whatsoever. Just mice, so ive been working with whats been available. Where do you all get yours?

Wow, well I feel better now. I was about to make a thread just like this XD

As for rats, you can try and find out if there are any regular animal/herp expos or events near you. There's normally plenty of people selling live and frozen feeders of all sorts there. There's also always ordering online but the shipping charges can be pretty killer, especially if you're only ordering for a small number of snakes. Or even do a little networking here, find out if there are any other herpers on this site that either breed rats, knows a good rat source, or that you could go in with for online purchases to make the shipping charge worth it.

Theres definitely potential there. I had planned on breeding my own once I got a few more snakes, but while im only at one youre right theres really no point. Its too bad they dont carry them at pet stores. Ive got a few friends in the area with snake collections. Ill ask where they get rats. Theres always the option of double feeding mice I suppose, but that seems kind of troublesome. I dont know why it puts me off it just seems like a weird thing to do. XD

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Originally Posted by Riv

Theres definitely potential there. I had planned on breeding my own once I got a few more snakes, but while im only at one youre right theres really no point. Its too bad they dont carry them at pet stores. Ive got a few friends in the area with snake collections. Ill ask where they get rats. Theres always the option of double feeding mice I suppose, but that seems kind of troublesome. I dont know why it puts me off it just seems like a weird thing to do. XD

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There are quite a few breeders in the Maryland area - heck, Ralph is up there. I'd ask around and see who they're getting their feeders from. Check mom & pop pet stores, they almost always have feeders. Petland even has rat feeders in the back.

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Originally Posted by Riv

she's still only 174G.

Hell I think she's just now going to be able to get down a medium mouse safely.

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At 174g she will have absolutely no problem eating a medium mouse. Even large, retired breeders wouldn't be a problem. I think you underestimate what they are capable of eating. They are more than able to eat meals in excess of half their weight, although I don't recommend feeding them meals that large. I would offer her mice/rats in the 25g range, which would be roughly 15% of her body weight. When you can find them get her switched to rats. You'll notice a BIG difference after switching.

Ill have to talk to my old friend google and see if I can find anyone in the area = P Im glad to hear theres a good amount around here. that means somebodies more than likely getting frozen rats somewhere XDD

Also, the box her fuzzies came in said that they were 30 grams a pop. And Im not looking at the box, but I I remember correctly, the box of Small Mice says they weigh 46 grams a piece. As far as her meal sizes go, Even if she was capable of taking as large as you mentioned, im not sure she'd actually go for it. I guess I figured such a large meal might scare or freak her out because it was a drastic jump?

Hooray! I found a place very easily actually XD Its called House of the Tropicals.
Their website says they carry Frozen Small rats, Large Rats, Mice and guinea pigs. Not that Ill be feeding her guinea pigs haha. Are small rats going to be too big though? Should I give her a pack of medium mice before I give small rats a go?

You must have some massive mice! I just weighed our large adult breeders and they average around the 30-32 gram mark. I don't think we have any adults that are over 40g. Our hoppers, which are a step up from fuzzies, weigh between 8-10 grams. I'd double check what you have.

Like I said, she would be capable of eating half her body weigh, I also said I didn't recommend it. 10-15% of body weight, which is usually a meal as big around as the fattest part of her body, is an appropriate meal. So an adult mouse wouldn't be a ridiculously large meal by any means for a 174g ball python.

Rat pups (rats right before/right after their eyes open) should suit your needs for the moment.

Wow that is small, my 2 month old baby girls are already at 170g and eating small rat weanlings 35 - 40g twice a week.

Good luck getting her weight up.

André

Wow you were totally right @_@ I didnt read the box well enough. the box says net weight 30 grams for the fuzzies. Am I to assume that means all 6 together wiegh 30 grams? Im going to call house of tropicals and see if they carry rat pups. Couldnt find it on their site.

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Originally Posted by Riv

Wow you were totally right @_@ I didnt read the box well enough. the box says net weight 30 grams for the fuzzies. Am I to assume that means all 6 together wiegh 30 grams? Im going to call house of tropicals and see if they carry rat pups. Couldnt find it on their site.

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Yeah that's 30 grams for all 6. Mice fuzzies usually range from about 3-6 grams.
Hopefully the new place you found will have the proper food size for you.
Rat pups should be roughly 20-30 grams.

Well the way I look at it, even if they dont carry rat pups, I can get her used to adult mice, and they should be roughly the size of maybe a little smaller than the small rats. It would just mean transitioning her to rats a little bit later than would be preferred. Im planning on offering her a rat pup tomorrow evening if I can find some.

Young animals utilize most of their prey for growth and when they are not fed enough everything is utilize leaving nothing to defecate.

Feed appropriate preys and sooner or later when your BP will have catch up it will defecate, might be once a week once a month but it will.

And when it does, you will be impressed! I remember seeing my first bp poop many years ago. To say I was proud would be an understatement. :D

The hatchling male I produced came out on 7/29 and already weighs 146g. I agree with first post--she may just be using all the nutrients and have nothing to poop out.

A lot of my Balls take a couple weeks or more to take a full on dump. But during the time they'll pass urates and such. She'll pass it soon enough. I would definitely consider switching her to larger prey and to rats. by 8-9 months she should be over 500g at least.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

The hatchling male I produced came out on 7/29 and already weighs 146g.

by 8-9 months she should be over 500g at least.

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Yup. Our two youngest balls hatched in early June. I weighed them both the other day, both empty and they weighed 313g and 356g. By a year most of our females are close to 1,000g.

OP, I saw your ball in your pics. She needs groceries bad! Never take the advice from someone who works in a pet store. 99% of them don't know what they are talking about. Glad you came here. :gj: Like you said, whatever you can find will work. For now I would just get her bulked up some before worrying about rats vs. mice and the switch. Yall can cross that bridge when ya get to it.

Good luck and keep us updated!

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Originally Posted by AZmorphedballs

Also from seeing your pics and reading your other thread; if I remember correctly you said she was 8-9 months old and 150 grams; I would try to get her switched over to rat pups and get her on a 5-7 day feeding schedule.

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8-9months old at 150grams def get switched to rats and feed every 3-4 days if she will eat.....

Thanks for all the help and advice guys! Ill definitely be sure to update the thread when more things happen. I think im gonna let her finish off the box so I dont have 1 random small mouse left in my freezer forever, but the next prey I buy for her will absolutely be rat pups (if available) I actually just weighed her before her feeding. apparently she lost a gram somewhere in the last few days bringing her down to 173. XDD

So I went to that place. Unfortunately they do carry rats, but the ones they were selling were still too large. but I did get a great deal on some mice larger than the ones she's been eating which should do her nicely until she's ready for rats.

On another note, I still haven't gotten any poop from her, but I weighed her this afternoon and she went from 173 Grams on Friday before her feeding to 195 Grams this afternoon! She's still not where she's supposed to be, but she's well on her way considering october 1st she was only 151. Thanks to you guys and your helpful advice she's gained quite a bit very quickly.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

There are quite a few breeders in the Maryland area - heck, Ralph is up there. I'd ask around and see who they're getting their feeders from. Check mom & pop pet stores, they almost always have feeders. Petland even has rat feeders in the back.

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Yesterday at Repticon in Timonium, hubby got the number of a guy who comes to the Frederick MD area frequently with rats and mice, I'm guessing mostly frozen but he might bring lives if requested.

I'll have to get the info from hubby later and will post it as soon as I do.

[who/where's Ralph, if I may ask?]

That would be awesome! Im going to be getting 2 new snakes around february ish and Id like to start them off on rats if I have a choice in the matter. I think by the time my little girl finished the bigger mice I just got her she;ll be ready for the rats I can get in my area, and then once she's too big for those stepping up wont be a problem. I filled in the projected size of her meals and when she should theoretiucly be stepping up to a bigger one in her feeding chart. SWo if she stick to the feeding regimend she she be just fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Riv

That would be awesome! Im going to be getting 2 new snakes around february ish and Id like to start them off on rats if I have a choice in the matter. I think by the time my little girl finished the bigger mice I just got her she;ll be ready for the rats I can get in my area, and then once she's too big for those stepping up wont be a problem. I filled in the projected size of her meals and when she should theoretiucly be stepping up to a bigger one in her feeding chart. SWo if she stick to the feeding regimend she she be just fine.

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Check your inbox!

:)

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Yesterday at Repticon in Timonium, hubby got the number of a guy who comes to the Frederick MD area frequently with rats and mice, I'm guessing mostly frozen but he might bring lives if requested.

I'll have to get the info from hubby later and will post it as soon as I do.

[who/where's Ralph, if I may ask?]

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One of the "big boys".

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/

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Originally Posted by rabernet

One of the "big boys".

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/

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Whoa.....cool!

:O

Thanks!

[I've been reading BP pages and websites for weeks, solid now...at this rate, I'm never gonna get anything else done]....LOL

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Originally Posted by Salamander

Whoa.....cool!

:O

Thanks!

[I've been reading BP pages and websites for weeks, solid now...at this rate, I'm never gonna get anything else done]....LOL

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This is just the beginning too! It's all downhill from here on out. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Riv

Beleive me I would LOVE to get her on rat pups but I cant seem to find any. Hell I think she's just now going to be able to get down a medium mouse safely.. But I've looked at Petsmart, Todays Pet, and Petco and I havet seen any frozen rats whatsoever. Just mice, so ive been working with whats been available. Where do you all get yours?

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Just a quick comment, but did you look in the fish section when you were checking out Petsmart/Petco? For some reason they always keep the freezer over there.

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Originally Posted by Jeo123

Just a quick comment, but did you look in the fish section when you were checking out Petsmart/Petco? For some reason they always keep the freezer over there.

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Gotta love how they charge almost $2 for a pinkie mouse. :rofl:

Looks like you've had quite a bit of help already. I do think that once you get her on appropriate prey she'll be fine. Actually, since she is so underweight, I'd put her on a twice a week schedule. I use Monday/Thursday but any 3/4 day offset would do.

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Originally Posted by Jeo123

Just a quick comment, but did you look in the fish section when you were checking out Petsmart/Petco? For some reason they always keep the freezer over there.

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yeeeeeeerrp. They dont carry rats whatsoever. They sell Fuzzies--> Large Adult Mice

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Looks like you've had quite a bit of help already. I do think that once you get her on appropriate prey she'll be fine. Actually, since she is so underweight, I'd put her on a twice a week schedule. I use Monday/Thursday but any 3/4 day offset would do.

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Yeah, I currenltly have her taking a Medium mouse(They weigh 17 grams. 10% of her body weight is 19.5 grams) every four days. She just stepped up from a small mouse every 3 days. I have her scheduled for 9 more medium mice before I try small rats on for size. I didnt start tracking her weight until october 1st, but so far she's had a steady increase in weight. She should catch up in no time. Especially if i can get her on even bigger Meals XD

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Originally Posted by AK907

This is just the beginning too! It's all downhill from here on out. :D

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Now there's some happy news.....LOL

SHE POOOOOPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::cool:

I woke up at 3 O'clock in the morning, and saw a nice little poopie on the top corner of her hide = P If I were to incoil it iw would probably be 3 1/2 inches long. Either way! It looks healthy, and the fact that she's pooping means her body no longer feels the need to keep ALL of it. Now my question is when should I feed her next? I have her scheduled for a feeding 10/4 but since she pooped should I make it sooner?

I just weighed her. She was 195 on sunday. She was given a mouse, then weighed again on Monday(201) Then after she pooped she weighed 193. So grand total only a 2 gram drop! Im happy with that. shes getting closer and closer to where she should be every feeding. Im so glad my little girl is healthy now and with no desiese whatsever XDD

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Originally Posted by Riv

I have her scheduled for a feeding 10/4 but since she pooped should I make it sooner?

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Pooping shouldn't make a difference in feeding schedule. If you fed her the 9th, then the 14th would be an appropriate date. Then the 19th, 24th, 29th, etc. It doesn't have to be perfect. If you feed a day early or a day late, this doesn't really prove to be problematic as long as you're in the ballpark. Just like some people will tell you not to feed while they are in shed. A lot won't eat in shed, but we have a couple that will and if they are willing, we have not had a single problem. Fed one in shed last night, actually. Her rat barely hit the floor of her tub and it was gone. In time you'll learn how to read your snake and you'll find your own methods that work best for you. Follow them. Our advice should be taken as a guideline and is in no way set in stone.

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Originally Posted by Riv

I just weighed her. She was 195 on sunday. She was given a mouse, then weighed again on Monday(201) Then after she pooped she weighed 193. So grand total only a 2 gram drop! Im happy with that. shes getting closer and closer to where she should be every feeding. Im so glad my little girl is healthy now and with no desiese whatsever XDD

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A little tip about weighing. Always weigh them when they are completely empty so you get an accurate weight. We weigh on feeding day before feeding, after a good poop. Because of their slow metabolisms they will have usually have little bits of food or poop left in them, so you're not only weighing them, but their food/poop as well. That can create a 10-15% variance in your snake's actual weight depending on how soon after eating you weigh them.

Good to know. Im gonna have to make sure she's empty next time I weigh her = p

I am having the same concern. Autumn (my female lemon blast) hasn't defecated in quite some time. She urates but not as often as I would expect. Her hatch date is 4-16-11 I got her 8/25/11 weighing 216g. Feeding lg mouse once week. On 9-6-11 she weighed 234g. Defecated last on 9-17-11 and fed same day. 9-22-11 urated and lg mouse, 10-2-11 weanling (thought maybe in shed but she is not) 10-8-11 lg mouse. Now weighs 321g. Still no poop. She is in a 24 x 24 x 11.5 boaphile cage. 2 hides, water bowl, branch. Humidity and temps are good. She has been very active at night but less so during the day and she has become a bit "sketchy" when it comes to handling her so I have been leaving her alone. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks.