When to assist feed?

So I just picked up a little male calico that has not eaten yet. He was hatched on 9/1/11 and weighed 64 g. He had his 1st shed on 9/16/11. I weighed him today on 9/29/11 and he weighs 63 g. He still looks pretty good. I picked up a picky press just in case because I'm just not gonna let my little calico perish because he is stuborn. I've tried pinkie mice, rats, gerbils, and fuzzies. So when do I become concerned and use the pump? I understand there is some debate on whether or not to use pumps but I dont really care. I would rather he eat on his own but if worse comes to worse when do I assist feed? thanks for any advice.

Have u tried a small live weanlig mouse?

My advice would be to leave the snake alone for three weeks,no food,no holding,no peeking. Then offer a live meal at night time. Some snakes are shy and watchin them eat will cause them to refuse a meal. In my opinion always try to starve them into eating before any assit feeding. assit feeding causes stress.

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Originally Posted by Simplex

Have u tried a small live weanlig mouse?

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Not yet but maybe I will have to try that next.

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Originally Posted by gman8585

My advice would be to leave the snake alone for three weeks,no food,no holding,no peeking. Then offer a live meal at night time. Some snakes are shy and watchin them eat will cause them to refuse a meal. In my opinion always try to starve them into eating before any assit feeding. assit feeding causes stress.

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I generally put him in a separate feeding tub in a hidden area and leave him alone for several hours with the food but it is in the day time. I'll try night time tonight. I agree I would much rather have him eat cause hes hungry than forcing him. I just dont want to wait until hes too weak and its too late.

Pinky Press*

Don't feed him in a different enclosure, that could very well be the issue. I have at least 3 ball pythons that would boycott food forever if I ever thought about moving them. I definitely wouldn't even consider assist feeding until you've tried feeding him in his own enclosure, and try a hopper mouse.

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

Not yet but maybe I will have to try that next.

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Reason i say is i had almost an exact situation.

Lil bp 63 grams would not eat. Refuse refuse refuse. 3 weeks of assist feed. No feeding response at all. I was using ft pinkies and fuzzies just trying to get somethig into him to keep him goin. Then picked up live mice for my others. Had 1 really small one in the bunch. But sub adults. Put it in his tub closed it gave him 2 min alone. Opened the tub and he was wrapped and just begining to loosen off. Insta feed. And now hes a champ. Taking lots of food. Great appetite. 4 small mice in 1.5 weeks.

They can handle bigger food then we think. And if they will take it. LET THEM lol. Ive now decided all my hatchlings will be started on large hoppers or small weanlings. They move more and entice a better response. Ill worry about ft conversion after 150-200 grams

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9/1/11 and weighed 64 g. He had his 1st shed on 9/16/11. I weighed him today on 9/29/11 and he weighs 63 g.

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Now is not the time to think about assisting or pinky pump.

First RELAX, if you don't already have them in a 6 quarts tub, with ASPEN bedding. leave them alone for 5 to 7 days and try offering again, appropriated live mouse. Do not offer food more than every 7 days to those that appear picky.

I usually do not start to worry and think about assist feeding before week 6 to 8 depending on the animal's weight, whether it absorb it's yolk and the general condition.

All the advise is good. check you husbantry make sure everything is absolutely correct (78-82 cool 88-92 warm and ambient (air) 79-85 55-65% humidity) and leave it be. They will not eat if they are do not 'feel' safe and secure, are either too warm or too cold. With those three things the rest typically fall into place.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

Don't feed him in a different enclosure, that could very well be the issue. I have at least 3 ball pythons that would boycott food forever if I ever thought about moving them. I definitely wouldn't even consider assist feeding until you've tried feeding him in his own enclosure, and try a hopper mouse.

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I feed all of my others in their enclosures. I've tried feeding him in his enclosure. I actually have a pinky rat in his enclosure with him right now. Ive dealt with picky eaters before and this guy takes the cake, might be because it will be his 1st meal ever and he is very shy. I'm trying everything with this guy. thanks for the help.

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Originally Posted by Simplex

Reason i say is i had almost an exact situation.

Lil bp 63 grams would not eat. Refuse refuse refuse. 3 weeks of assist feed. No feeding response at all. I was using ft pinkies and fuzzies just trying to get somethig into him to keep him goin. Then picked up live mice for my others. Had 1 really small one in the bunch. But sub adults. Put it in his tub closed it gave him 2 min alone. Opened the tub and he was wrapped and just begining to loosen off. Insta feed. And now hes a champ. Taking lots of food. Great appetite. 4 small mice in 1.5 weeks.

They can handle bigger food then we think. And if they will take it. LET THEM lol. Ive now decided all my hatchlings will be started on large hoppers or small weanlings. They move more and entice a better response. Ill worry about ft conversion after 150-200 grams

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I think I'll try this next. The pinkies dont really move around alot maybe some movement will entice him.

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

I feed all of my others in their enclosures. I've tried feeding him in his enclosure. I actually have a pinky rat in his enclosure with him right now. Ive dealt with picky eaters before and this guy takes the cake, might be because it will be his 1st meal ever and he is very shy. I'm trying everything with this guy. thanks for the help.

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I am dealing with the same type of situation with one of my baby females, she's only about 75-80 grams and refused for 6 weeks in a row. I moved her to a tiny tub, maybe 6-10 qts, I drape a towel over the top and back of it, I left her alone for 5 days, then put a small hopper mouse in with her. She snatched it in about 5 seconds. She had refused a rat fuzzie the week before.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Now is not the time to think about assisting or pinky pump.

First RELAX, if you don't already have them in a 6 quarts tub, with ASPEN bedding. leave them alone for 5 to 7 days and try offering again, appropriated live mouse. Do not offer food more than every 7 days to those that appear picky.

I usually do not start to worry and think about assist feeding before week 6 to 8 depending on the animal's weight, whether it absorb it's yolk and the general condition.

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I wont be using the pump unless I notice that he is wasting away and some time has passed. I'm not so worried at the moment and he looks fine. I know that they can go a while after hatching I'm just not sure if I should go by his appearance or a set amounts of weeks before assisting if I even end up having to. He is also in a small tub with aspen bedding. Assisting will be a last resort for me, I'm just thinking of worse case scenarios. Thanks

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

All the advise is good. check you husbantry make sure everything is absolutely correct (78-82 cool 88-92 warm and ambient (air) 79-85 55-65% humidity) and leave it be. They will not eat if they are do not 'feel' safe and secure, are either too warm or too cold. With those three things the rest typically fall into place.

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Cool. ya everything is correct. I'll keep double checking everything though. I have him and all my new arrivals set up in the same fashion as the rest of my snakes. Rack system, herpstat, tubs, aspen bedding, water, 60% humidity, hot spot at 90 degrees, cool side at 80, and hides. thanks

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

I wont be using the pump unless I notice that he is wasting away and some time has passed. I'm not so worried at the moment and he looks fine. I know that they can go a while after hatching I'm just not sure if I should go by his appearance or a set amounts of weeks before assisting if I even end up having to. He is also in a small tub with aspen bedding. Assisting will be a last resort for me, I'm just thinking of worse case scenarios. Thanks

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A pinky pump is essentially force feeding. The idea is to get your snake to learn how to eat, and you can't do that with a pinky pump. Assist feeding entails getting a hopper mouse or small rat pup and placing the head in the snake's mouth. Close the mouth over the mouse/rat and give a gentle pull to catch the snake's teeth in the skin so it is more difficult to dislodge. Then wait until the snake is calm (as calm as a snake can get that you just shoved something in its mouth), and place it in its cage. If the snake spits it out, try again. You may have to do this several times until the snake starts to swallow. It can take a lot of patience depending on the snake.

I've never used a pinky pump, but I can imagine that you would only use it in dire circumstances where the snake is too weak to eat or is unable to be assist fed after many, many tries.

In any case, I think you have a little bit of time before attempting assist feeding. Keep a close eye on your snake and if you notice it getting thinner or weaker, try to assist feed. I would follow the other suggestions in this thread in the mean time. Don't wait too long, though. Baby snakes can and will starve themselves faster than larger/older snakes. Plus you run the risk of their digestive system shutting down so even if you do manage to get food it him, it may be too late.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by LGray23

I am dealing with the same type of situation with one of my baby females, she's only about 75-80 grams and refused for 6 weeks in a row. I moved her to a tiny tub, maybe 6-10 qts, I drape a towel over the top and back of it, I left her alone for 5 days, then put a small hopper mouse in with her. She snatched it in about 5 seconds. She had refused a rat fuzzie the week before.

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This is what you need to do. 6 quart is perfect, put in a small hide over warm spot and try feeding once a week in the tub without disturbing the snake at all. I would feed her a live mouse hopper in the evening and you could leave it over night if needed as the hopper could never harm your snake. This snake needs security ESPECIALLY for its first meals. I have had hatchlings be nervous before, be patient. Once he feels secure then he will think about ambushing his prey;)

IMO With hatchlings and new babies pinks are never The way to go. Ft is never The way to go. Pinks are too immobile. Ive personally neve had a hatchling take an ft so i dont try. They dont kickstart that feeding response. I've made the same mistake too. But now I only start my babies on hopper mice live. Worry about conversion later. You really want that baby to eat. Try not to offer too much, or change too many things quickly. If you do the process of acclimation starts all over.
Sometimes a black out tub works. I usually have 3 tubs that I've spray painted the outside Black ready and waiting when babies start coming out. Any that have refused 3 weeks in a row or more get moved into te black out. I wait 7-10 days before offering again and that usually does the trick.
I'd let him be for 10 days and then at night offer 1 live mouse weanling.
I'm sure if you do this you'll see that he's just stressed and really not that stubborn. Good luck!


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LGray23

I am dealing with the same type of situation with one of my baby females, she's only about 75-80 grams and refused for 6 weeks in a row. I moved her to a tiny tub, maybe 6-10 qts, I drape a towel over the top and back of it, I left her alone for 5 days, then put a small hopper mouse in with her. She snatched it in about 5 seconds. She had refused a rat fuzzie the week before.

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It really bothers me when they wont eat. I have others that have refused for several weeks but the hunger always gets to them. I wouldnt be so concerned if he had at least eaten a couple of times. I'll just keep trying and hopefully he comes around.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

A pinky pump is essentially force feeding. The idea is to get your snake to learn how to eat, and you can't do that with a pinky pump. Assist feeding entails getting a hopper mouse or small rat pup and placing the head in the snake's mouth. Close the mouth over the mouse/rat and give a gentle pull to catch the snake's teeth in the skin so it is more difficult to dislodge. Then wait until the snake is calm (as calm as a snake can get that you just shoved something in its mouth), and place it in its cage. If the snake spits it out, try again. You may have to do this several times until the snake starts to swallow. It can take a lot of patience depending on the snake.

I've never used a pinky pump, but I can imagine that you would only use it in dire circumstances where the snake is too weak to eat or is unable to be assist fed after many, many tries.

In any case, I think you have a little bit of time before attempting assist feeding. Keep a close eye on your snake and if you notice it getting thinner or weaker, try to assist feed. I would follow the other suggestions in this thread in the mean time. Don't wait too long, though. Baby snakes can and will starve themselves faster than larger/older snakes. Plus you run the risk of their digestive system shutting down so even if you do manage to get food it him, it may be too late.

Good luck!

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I'm aware of the differnce I just used the term "assist" because it sounds better than "force". I've assist fed before but always on a snake that has at least eaten before and then stopped. I will definately try everything I can before assisting or forcing, Ive learned to be very patience in dealing with snakes over the years. Ive just never had a newly hatched snake who has never eaten before and wanted to get an idea on when to get worried and take action. I'll just keep an eye on him like you suggest and hopefully he can figure it out. I'm just glad that everyone here is so helpful. I appreciate the help. Thankyou

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

This is what you need to do. 6 quart is perfect, put in a small hide over warm spot and try feeding once a week in the tub without disturbing the snake at all. I would feed her a live mouse hopper in the evening and you could leave it over night if needed as the hopper could never harm your snake. This snake needs security ESPECIALLY for its first meals. I have had hatchlings be nervous before, be patient. Once he feels secure then he will think about ambushing his prey;)

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That sounds perfect. I tried feeding him a rat pink earlier today but nothing. I just put it under his hide with him a couple minutes ago. Should I put it in the hide with him or outside and let him come out looking for it? I noticed him cruising his tub the last 2 nights, I thought maybe he was searching for food since he hasnt done that since I purchased him 2 weeks ago. This calico is definately the most nervous snake I have ever had but again Ive never purchased one this young before especially who hasnt fed yet. Loving the advice so far. I'll keep trying everything recommended. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

IMO With hatchlings and new babies pinks are never The way to go. Ft is never The way to go. Pinks are too immobile. Ive personally neve had a hatchling take an ft so i dont try. They dont kickstart that feeding response. I've made the same mistake too. But now I only start my babies on hopper mice live. Worry about conversion later. You really want that baby to eat. Try not to offer too much, or change too many things quickly. If you do the process of acclimation starts all over.
Sometimes a black out tub works. I usually have 3 tubs that I've spray painted the outside Black ready and waiting when babies start coming out. Any that have refused 3 weeks in a row or more get moved into te black out. I wait 7-10 days before offering again and that usually does the trick.
I'd let him be for 10 days and then at night offer 1 live mouse weanling.
I'm sure if you do this you'll see that he's just stressed and really not that stubborn. Good luck!


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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I think your right about him just being stressed. I dont have many choices on what I can feed him because I dont breed my own rodents(although maybe I should start). The store I go to always sells all their rodents so quick they dont have a chance to get to the weanly stage. I'll wait till they get a new mouse shipment and try to pick out the tinest one and try that(they are usually very young). I think i will try a more secure tub and wait for a week or so as well. Thanks for the help.

Sometimes offering food everyday can stress a snake out and cause a snake to refuse a meal. So long as your husbandry is good,like snug hide,right temps. The snake might just need some time to adjust and be left alone for a while to start eating. That's why I would say leave it be for three weeks then offer a meal.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the help. I moved him into an even smaller tub, waited, and introduced a weanling mouse and he snatched it up in about 2 seconds.

i have 5 2011's this year - they were all started on live except one - they are all between 65 and 85 grams - 3 of them ate f/t small mice first try - one refused a couple times so i gave in and gave a live which she pounded - then the next week she refused f/t again but this week she slammed the f/t - that leaves me with only one of the 5 that hasn't ate yet - ironically it was the only one started by the breeder on f/t - i strongly believe that it really has to do more with getting settled in and comfortable and proper husbandry of course - they will switch over to f/t - except in the most extreme cases - THEY WILL - when they get hungry enough they will eat - now, i do check weights weekly - as long as their is no signifigant weight loss they will be fine - i strongly believe that the best method is to leave them alone and offer weekly - they will eat - i have to admit that their finicky eating is frustrating - corns, boas - they will not give you this trouble but relax - it will eat:banana:

I'm pretty new at this but I was worried about my new ball not feeding either my issue was the fact that she refused to eat in the feeding enclosure she just ignored the mouse and was looking around this new weird place I put her. As soon as I tried her home not even a minute after I placed it in she ate I personally feed f/t because one she eats them with no complaint and two my fiance hates rodents in the house.