Rat pups or large adult mice?

I'm going to be ordering from rodent pro pretty soon and I want to know if rat pups are really worth it?

They're twice the price and I only have one ball python. Would I be better off getting 50 large mice and then switching to weanling rats later? Or should I start my bp on rat pups now?

Also, what is the maximum time rodents stay good for in the freezer?

It would probably be best for you if you stuck to local pet store for now. Also check out http://www.laynelabs.com/ you can get less quality instead of bulk buying like 500 at a time

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Originally Posted by Herpking

It would probably be best for you if you stuck to local pet store for now.

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1) I wouldn't be ordering 500. 2) Mice are $11 for 4 at my local pet store, so no it wouldn't be better

Even if I throw half of them away it's still going to be cheaper to order from rodent pro WITH shipping prices included.

i suggest http://www.bigcheeserodents.com/ . Depending on what you get, shipping and handling is the cheapest i've found for small orders, for 2 bags of weaned rats, i payed $35 for 2 day shipping to NY from Texas

Doesnt rats in general have more nutrition than mice? So if you want more weight on your snake I would give rats. Plus you are going to have to give your snakes rats later on when they get bigger so yea.

Rats may be more expensive, but is it not worth it in the long run?

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Originally Posted by notmyfault

i suggest http://www.bigcheeserodents.com/ . Depending on what you get, shipping and handling is the cheapest i've found for small orders, for 2 bags of weaned rats, i payed $35 for 2 day shipping to NY from Texas

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Never knew of this place thanks

I've gotten a big bulk order from Rodent Pro a couple months ago so here's my suggestions/comments (I got both the large adult mice and the rat pups as well as a bag of rat weanlings):

The rat pups and mice were usually around the same size (in grams: around 20-28 each) so just going by size vs. price IMO the large mice are the better deal. But you might run into this problem as I did: I got these large quantity bags and before I was able to use them up my snakes were already on the next size up (ie Jumbo mice or Weaner rats) but thankfully all my snakes are on different sized feeders so this worked out for me. For you though only having one snake, I would recommend getting a bag of the next size up (ie either the Jumbo mice or the rat weanlings - most being anywhere from 35-50 grams) and in the meantime buy from a petstore the size you need at this point in time. Your snake will most likely grow rather quickly and be able to take the jumbos or weanlings soon and you won't need to worry about having a big bag of a smaller sized prey item sitting in your freezer.

If you are going to expand your collection soon you should be fine with the order of the adult mice or pups if your new additions are younger. Even if you do decide to get a order of the adult mice or pups without getting more snakes soon you can always double up on your feeding days (feeding more than one feeder item at a time) but then you run into the problem of a snake not wanting to take multiples. But then you can shorten the time inbetween feedings (I have one BP what will NOT take anything larger than a 30 grams mouse and she's in the 550 gram range so instead of a seven day schedule she's on a ~5 day)

Bottom line: I'd pick up some rat wealings if you want him to be only a rat eater since he'll be on them soon enough and in the meantime just get feeders from the petstore. It will be worth your shipping charges to get more than one bag of mice or rats though.

Also, I'm sure it will be easy to convert your snake from mice to rats if you want to go that route instead of starting him right on pups.

Thank you for the advice! I do have an adult corn though that eats every 10 days (large mice) and the ball python that eats about every week.

What would you order?

i switch to rats while still long ... u may find it easier to make the switch now vs. later.. i bought a proven breeder spider male that was a mouse eater and ive been spending weeks getting him to regularly eat rats.. i much perfer to feed rats
but i also perfer live vs. ft

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Originally Posted by szynk.reptiles

i switch to rats while still long ... u may find it easier to make the switch now vs. later.. i bought a proven breeder spider male that was a mouse eater and ive been spending weeks getting him to regularly eat rats.. i much perfer to feed rats
but i also perfer live vs. ft

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I'm rather new but I was given this advice, as well. Rats do hold more nutritional value in the long run. I have a one persistent superpastel that is a mouse feeder, live only, to make matters worse. I'm still working on getting her to convert to rats. I find it a bit of a pain because I breed my own rodents, with the exception of mice. Good luck!

The bad thing bout feeding live rats, when the snake gets on small/medium rats the rats are somewhat intelligent and could harm the snake

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Originally Posted by Tinyballs

Thank you for the advice! I do have an adult corn though that eats every 10 days (large mice) and the ball python that eats about every week.

What would you order?

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I would order an order of the large mice and your weanlings then. That way, when your BP needs to move up to his weanlings you will (I'm sure) have plently left over for your corn. Like I said though the large adults IMO are kinda small being 20-28 grams usually so you may need to double up on feeders per feeding session for your corn if he is on the larger side, or feed more frequently so he's not underfed.

I could even go so far as to suggest you get a bag of small rats as well. Kept properly frozen feeders can last a long time in the freezer, and that way if you decide to get a larger snake down the road or if your BP moves up his feeders quickly then you won't need to shovel out a large amount in shipping costs for bigger feeders because you'll already have some on hand.

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Originally Posted by EnutButter

I'm rather new but I was given this advice, as well. Rats do hold more nutritional value in the long run. I have a one persistent superpastel that is a mouse feeder, live only, to make matters worse. I'm still working on getting her to convert to rats. I find it a bit of a pain because I breed my own rodents, with the exception of mice. Good luck!

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I haven't seen any concrete evidence that rats are more nutritious, though it is more convenient to feed rats because down the road when the snake gets larger you won't need to double up on feeders per feeding session: a small rat equals so many mice, a medium rat equals so many mice, and so on.

Suggestion to help convert: rub the rat with the mouse (if feeding P/K or F/T) to prescent the rat to smell like the mouse. And if feeding live: put the rat in some dirty mice bedding before offering to try to scent the rat to smell like a mouse. It may be worth a try if you haven't tried this before. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Herpking

The bad thing bout feeding live rats, when the snake gets on small/medium rats the rats are somewhat intelligent and could harm the snake

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You can always convert the snake to be a F/T eater or a prekilled eater to take away the danger of the rat harming the snake. Personally, if I bought live feeders for my snakes or bred my own feeders I wouldn't offer live anyway: I'd work to convert my snakes to eating at least prekilled.

I am trying to convert my live feeders to f/t I was just stating a disadvantage of feeding live

I feed mine mice until they need larger, then I switch them to rats. Mice are cheaper. I see no reason to waste money. I also buy from Rodent Pro, BTW.

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

You can always convert the snake to be a F/T eater or a prekilled eater to take away the danger of the rat harming the snake.

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That's easier said that done. I sold off around forty ball pythons because I could not switch them.

It makes no sence to feed it mice when its going to eventually need rats anyways. The longer you wait to get it on rats the harder it can be. First meals for hatchlings here are rat pinks and they stay on rats. If you feed mice sooner or later the animal is going to need multiple mice to equal one rat so you will be saving money in the long run. Dont skimp on the important things

I would order a half and half kind of thing. However many you decide to get, do half rat pups and half rat weanlings. Here's what I did...Each one of those are weighed in a certain range like 20-29g or whatever. So I order half and half and when I got them (I emailed RodentPro and was able to pick up the order at local Repticon to save on shipping) I used my scale and weighted each one. From there I put them in individual baggies with the weight of the rats written on the outside. Then I organized them from smallest to largest (in weight) and that's how I feed. If I notice that my BPs are still hungry after eating the smaller ones, I change feeding from once every 7 days to feeding once every 5 days until the smaller rats are gone. Then switch to the bigger rats and back to every 7 days.

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Originally Posted by Herpking

The bad thing bout feeding live rats, when the snake gets on small/medium rats the rats are somewhat intelligent and could harm the snake

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:confused:

They're dumb as a doorknob when they're being fed off. They don't have the slightest idea that they're in danger. I've always fed live, mice of all ages and rats of all ages. None have harmed any of my collection. And I've literally fed off thousands of them.

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Originally Posted by Maddumpling

Doesnt rats in general have more nutrition than mice? So if you want more weight on your snake I would give rats. Plus you are going to have to give your snakes rats later on when they get bigger so yea.

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While it may appear so by the numbers, the argument is really a moot point, since we don't know what the nutritional requirements of a ball python are. For example, a ball python may require 10 grams of protein less than what a rat provides, but a mouse might be exactly the requirement that they need. No one knows.

What a keeper feeds should not be based on some obscure "rats are better than mice" argument. A keeper should feed what is most convenient for them, and what their animal will eat.

For convenience sake, I do feed rats, because I raise them, and I don't have to feed them more than one prey item a feeding. But I raised up the bulk of my founding stock to adult hood on mice, and their growth was not hindered by their diet of mice.

That is true. I have seen a study where mice have more calcium in them than rats which would be beneficial during the first 500 grams of the snakes life. As far as the nutritional requirements of a ball python thats true we dont know. Hell i had an oscar fish that lived forever and all he would eat was pizza and hot dogs lol go figure.

Just go to rodent pro and get a mix of a couple things you think might work. 1 bag of large mice, 1 bag of small rats, ect. I just picked up 160 mice, xxlarge mice, and small rats for 150 including shipping. They can fit alot in those boxes.

enut... if u have some mice and rats take a rat and throw in with mice for a half hour or so it gets the scent of mice on it and ur super pastel may smell mice and take rat... if u do that enough times u can ween down time rat needs to be scented and eventually be converted.. just a thought

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Originally Posted by rabernet

:confused:

They're dumb as a doorknob when they're being fed off. They don't have the slightest idea that they're in danger. I've always fed live, mice of all ages and rats of all ages. None have harmed any of my collection. And I've literally fed off thousands of them.

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I would just say consider yourself lucky I have heard stories where rats have eaten snakes alive because the owner leaves the live rats in with the snakes.

yea i always give my bigger rats a real good spinning to daze them before tossing in tubs and never leave un attended for periods of time... a larger rat can do serious damage!!! ive had a snake snatch a rat and not get the head and rat tried biting snake in neck.. luckily i have long needle nose pliers i use when feeding some testy snakes i was able to keep rat mouth away from snake till it was dead...

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Originally Posted by szynk.reptiles

yea i always give my bigger rats a real good spinning to daze them before tossing in tubs and never leave un attended for periods of time... a larger rat can do serious damage!!! ive had a snake snatch a rat and not get the head and rat tried biting snake in neck.. luckily i have long needle nose pliers i use when feeding some testy snakes i was able to keep rat mouth away from snake till it was dead...

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Had to do that once.