Problem with my ASF colonies

Ok, I am pretty new to ASF's. My dad had a couple that he was going to try and breed, and didn't have the time to, so I took them in. I have Ball Pythons so I figured that I would start breeding the ASF's along with my Normal rats, in seperate racks of course. Here's the issue, for a while things were going well. Good numbers in the litters, the majority of them weaning and growing just fine. Now for the last couple of weeks things have changed. Most of the pinkies disappear with in days of being born, I thought that maybe the older babies were smothering them out, but I'm not sure. And now babies that are just getting into the hopper stage seem to get sick and die off. And than I find little mostly eaten bodies in the bins. They seem to leave the hides and eat everything else. I am at al complete loss as to what is going on. The ASF's are kept in a rack system with watering system in place, they have water availible at all times, I feed them the LabDiet 5001, was thinking of changing to 5012, and the tubs are cleaned on a regular bases. Now the "Rat Room" is a room with no windows so has no natural light. Would this be causing problems? I did think so since most rodents live under ground. I go in and turn on the lights every morning roughly around the same time everyday and turn them off roughly around the same time everyday. Any help would be apprecaited. I don't like finding little mutilated bodies. My Normal rats seem to be doing fine.

I ment that I didn't think that the room with no windows would be a problem since most rodents live under ground or in dark places. Sorry

Have you checked the watering line to make sure it's flowing properly, and not clogged?

Yes I have, I check it every night.

Are they given enough food? Are they perhaps overcrowded? I have once heard that mice will eat sick.mice in a colony to stop the soread of the sickness. Im not saying thats what it is, but all factors need to be considered

If nothing is wrong with your setup (enough room, plenty of food and water, good climate controls, etc.) then you might want to consider feeding them off and starting again.

Not familiar with the food you are using. Usually what you are describing suggests that they either don't have enough food, or the food isn't good enough, or ran out of water, or they stressed, or they are set up wrong.

What ratio do you have your breeding groups set up in? how many males, how many females?

What size tubs are you using?

At what time do you pull out the kids?

How are you feeding them?

I agree, it sounds like they're not getting enough of something. Either the watering system isn't working as well as you think it is, you're not feeding enough, or the food they're getting isn't proper for them.

Overcrowding is also an option. It would mean less food and water for everyone too.

I have them in a rack setup and each tub is 1 of those cement mixing tubs. The ratio is either 1.3 or 1.4, and I put fresh food in every night, they normally still have some food still in the tub with them when I put more in. I check all the water dispensers each night to make sure they are flowing right. I am refilling the 5 gallon bucket about every 3 days for 10 tubs. I pull the babies out at around 4 weeks of age, normally a day or so before mom has another litter, or right after she has a new litter. Would barking dogs stress them out that bad? I have them next to my dog room. I was thinking of switching the rooms around and moving the dogs to the laundry room which still isn't to far away. But the dogs have been here since before the rats. I would of thought that if that was the stresser I would have seen this happening months ago. Thanks again for the help.

The dogs aren't the problem.

How old are the breeders?

Again, I am not familiar with the food. what is the nutritional breakdown?

Can you post a picture of the setup?

What are you using for substrate?

Just an observation... you should be able to pull the kids out earlier then a day before the mom delivers the next batch. I pull mine out the moment their eyes are open.

Another observation... And it is just my opinion... Automatic water systems are way more trouble then they are worth, especially if you have a small colony of only 10 tubs. Problems with them are the norm, not the exception.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm using a total of 48 water nipples on two separate systems and haven't had any problems in months. And even if I had to clean up a mess once a month it would still be worth it.

I can't imagine how much time and effort this has saved me so far. I literally spend about 3 minutes filling the water tubs twice a week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I couldn't disagree more. I'm using a total of 48 water nipples on two separate systems and haven't had any problems in months. And even if I had to clean up a mess once a month it would still be worth it.

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If I were you I would buy a rabbits foot or find some wood to knock on after making such a statement. :D

I know several big snake breeders that make their own rats, and also know a few small business rodent breeders whos selling rodents is their number one business. Not a single one of them doesn't HATE their automatic watering system. Granted with a larger breeding setup it can be a necessary evil. Give it some more time... you will end up hating it.

No way I would EVER consider using one in the OP case with only 10 tubs. But again, that is just my opinion.

Maybe my plumbing job is just superior. :P

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Insulting the man's plumbing? It's going DOWN now! :rofl:

I love the watering system, and I am working on expanding my rack systems. No one in my area sells rodents for feeders, so I am building up. I already get a ton of calls a week:) lol.

I use Aspen bedding and its changed once to twice a week depending on the tub, grow out tubs are changed more often. I will start to pull the babies sooner and see how that goes. Here is a picture of my setup.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/IMG_4498.jpg

And here is one of the colonies

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/IMG_4499.jpg

And here is a link to the food information, I am planning to try a different one the next time i order.
http://labdiet.com/pdf/5001.pdf
But I have to order if from a distributor that is 2 hours away. No one sells rodent food in bulk around here, only rat poison. No one understands why I want to feed rats and not kill them:rolleyes:

Why does only one of the tubs have food?

I normally only put food on top of the grow out bin's only. The other bins I put fresh food in every night directly in the bin. That way I know that they can get it. They seemed to struggle to reach it when it was on top and the babies couldn't reach the top so it was just easier to put it directly in.

Not to mention it attracts wild mice when it sits on top. And I am not fond of feeding them:D

And an update. I moved the racks into a different room that has natural sunlight and better air flow and all problem have seemed to stop, the hopper ASF's seem to be healthier and I am no longer finding half eaten babies anymore. Thank you for the responses.

glad i came across this thread, i am having the same sort of problems with the kids dying at about hopper stage.

same situation, no lack of food/water, i don't THINK they're overcrowded (1.3 or 1.4 groups), and i don't think the bedding would be the issue either, as it's just the babies dying off. i use pine pellets (it's called Equine Fresh) and some aspen as bedding. sometimes i throw in paper from the paper shredder in my office.

perhaps i'm not pulling the babies soon enough though. i pulled a batch and most of them died, so i was hesitant to wean them as soon as their eyes opened. perhaps it's because they couldn't reach the food hopper. at Mike's suggestion i have switched from putting the food in the hopper to putting it directly into their bins, so perhaps i'll pull the kids and put food directly with them and see how they do.