Het Pied Male?

Hey guys! I am still very new to the ball python world, but I had a question. I was at the Arizona Reptile Center today and noticed they had a few balls. They had a pied male for about 1100 and then I noticed they had a het pied male for 100. When I asked the man about them he told me they were actually from the same clutch. Both were about two and good size, good eaters. So my question is this... I know that het means that he carries the gene for pied, but doesn't exhibit the trait. Why is he so much cheaper than the pied male? Is it because there is a higher probability of pied babies with the pied male or is it because the pied is better looking (matter of opinion of course)? Also is 100 a good price for a 2 year old het pied male?

Because one is the actual morph and one carries the trait for the morph. The actual morph will cost more as opposed to just carrying the gene. Here is a thread on genetics.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nding+genetics

Most people when working with recessive morphs will use het females and visual male (or visual females and a visual male). This is because it increases their odds of producing a visual morph. Breeding 2 hets together only gives you a 1 in 4 chance of producing a visual per egg and then you also have to deal with possible hets.

The visual morph is a lot more because that is what people really want, supply and demand. Someone went through all of the hard work to produce a visual. Visuals are also sought-after because breading 2 visuals together will produce nothing but visuals. Hets also aren't much to look at so it's much harder to convince someone to spend a lot of money on something that looks normal. :P

100 seems like a fair price to me for a 2 year old het peid male assuming 1.) he actually is a het pied and 2.) he has some decent size to him.

IMO, that's a good price. If you want a het pied, you trust that they're telling you the truth, and he looks in good health, I'd buy him! :)

They both looked to be in really good health. The only reason I tend to believe he is in fact a het pied was because they were from the same clutch and he told me they could give me the breeder information to verify. Also when you look at the het male, not sure if this is normal or not, but he had that aberrant body pattern, I just didn't see any white on him at all.

I love the pieds, frankly I just cannot afford 1000, much as I would like to. So in order to produce pied babies with him I would have to find a het pied female or pied female in order to have the possibility, right?

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

I love the pieds, frankly I just cannot afford 1000, much as I would like to. So in order to produce pied babies with him I would have to find a het pied female or pied female in order to have the possibility, right?

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Correct. If you want to go the cheap route, a het pied female hatchling is going to be the cheapest. You'll still have a shot at producing pieds, but you may have to have a few clutches before you hit on a visual depending on your odds.

You would probably be better off purchasing a 2011 pair of het pieds which would cost approx $250 for the pair. If you buy an adult male you'll obviously need a female and an adult female het pied would easily cost $600+. Just a suggestion.

If I get a pair of het pied babies now though its a two year wait at least, right? At least I know that is what is recommended for cornsnakes. This is all in theory of course, I am just thinking for the future, I would still need to learn a lot.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

If I get a pair of het pied babies now though its a two year wait at least, right? At least I know that is what is recommended for cornsnakes. This is all in theory of course, I am just thinking for the future, I would still need to learn a lot.

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2-3 years is when most start breeding females. The problem is most females that are larger than hatchlings tend to cost a lot more. I bought almost all of my girls as babies so I could raise them up and get better morphs.

You could also go the loooooooooong route and breed a het(male) to a normal(female).
Not all of the babies would be het though so you would have to hold back all the (females) in this example.
Grow them up and then breed them back to the father to shoot for a visual:gj:

3 to 4 year project unless you flip the genders and start with a het female.

Wow, yeah, definitely a long project! Maybe I should start looking for a het pair or shoot for a morph that isn't so costly. I just really liked the pieds! But I guess a lot of people do based on their pricing lol!

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

Wow, yeah, definitely a long project! Maybe I should start looking for a het pair or shoot for a morph that isn't so costly. I just really liked the pieds! But I guess a lot of people do based on their pricing lol!

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Males are ready to breed way before females. You could pickup a couple of het pied females and start raising them up and then pickup a visual pied male at a later date if you want to breed. I've seen some really nice mid-high white pieds got for $650-$800. If you get 2011 het pied females they could be ready to breed as early as 2013 so you could pick the visual male up in 2012 or even early 2013.

That's a possibility too. Just not sure which route to go, there are plenty of options though! I still need to take Crawly to the vet and have him checked as well to see whether he is male or female, I've simply been assuming he's a boy till I get the real results lol. But far as I know he's just a normal, though I have my questions on that one! lol. He has a little flaming, some blushing, and a white tip on his tail. Which I guess might not be much of anything but wishful thinking! lol.

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

That's a possibility too. Just not sure which route to go, there are plenty of options though! I still need to take Crawly to the vet and have him checked as well to see whether he is male or female, I've simply been assuming he's a boy till I get the real results lol. But far as I know he's just a normal, though I have my questions on that one! lol. He has a little flaming, some blushing, and a white tip on his tail. Which I guess might not be much of anything but wishful thinking! lol.

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You can search videos on popping on youtube if you want to try to sex him yourself. I always recommend having someone who knows that they're doing show you first, but it's mostly easy enough and you won't be paying $30-$50 for a vet just to tell you if you have a boy or a girl.

As for wondering if he's a normal, post some pics in the "Is this a Morph?" section and we can give you opinions. Normals come in a wide range of different colors and patterns, yet they are all still normals. For example, check out my webby for my collection: I have three normals. One is really reduced with bright coloring, one with lots of dark contrast and blushing which reminds me of a Mojo, and my big girl is very light with a very wild pattern and a ton of spots. Yet they are all normals :)

I'll just jump in and say you can't go wrong with any animal from ARC!

Get a pair of hets. Should be a fun project!