I think I have a few bad rats

Over the last month... mom 1 gave birth to just 2, and 1 of them was stillborn. Mom 2 had 6 or 7, all stillborn. Mom 3 only gave birth to 3. Mom 4 just had hers last night, 2 live, 2 stillborn... and then cannibalized the ones that were alive! WTH is going on? They were all first litters for these moms.

Thank goodness Mom 5 came through for me and gave birth to 14 live and healthy pinks(second litter).

These are all starter breeders, not from my lines. All unrelated other than moms 2 & 3, they're sisters.

The dad of the 1st and 4th litters was a variegated beige.
The dad of the 2nd and 3rd litters was a blue capped blaze.
And the dad of the 5th litter was a black variegated berkshire.

Anyone have a clue?

First off I'm sorry to hear all the trouble your having with your rat projects.

A few questions for background:
- What are you feeding them?
- Do they have access to constant water?
- How long have the moms been living together?

man i would feed her off quick and start over. As stated are you using good quality food and do they have access to plenty of water.

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Originally Posted by womsterr

man i would feed her off quick and start over. As stated are you using good quality food and do they have access to plenty of water.

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In my opinion I wouldn't do anything brash right away based on their first litters. I recommend reviewing all your husbandry and then giving them another shot.
If they fail to produce a second time then I'd say feed them off and try some new stock.

Also make sure to hold back some females from the healthy litter.

i dont give cannibals a second chance. if they eat the babies then the whole tub gets fed off. i dont take chances and wont allow it to continue. first time moms or not.
now if they eat the still borns only thats one thing. but it sounds like a nutrition issue imho. but until we hear what you feed and if they have constant water we wont know
adam jeffery

I would feed off cannibals or anyone having a 2-4 in a litter. I have NEVER had that happen...

Something off is going on here though. Either REALLY bad genetics or the husbandry - maybe both

Everytime I've bred rats I've at least gotten 9-10 pinks in their first litters and I didn't try to do anything fancy and these rats were from a mix of reptile shop (these ones looked pretty bad and needed a helping hand) and petco. There is definitely something off here. If you aren't throwing at least 7-10 babies in the first batch, there's a definate problem.

I don't mess with biters, chewers, or baby eaters...
Don't have the time or money to waste on them...

Ok. I should have maybe mentioned that all the rest of my moms have great litters. And care for them VERY well. It was just those four that have decided to give me a problem. The one that ate her babies is going to go with the snake breeder when they come pick up their order. I had already decided that. The small litter was bad enough... not gonna keep her if she is gonna eat the snake food herself!

But anyway, all my other moms came from the same breeder originally, and have produced and cared for their young very well.

ALWAYS have water... I triple check the bottles 2-3 times a day. I am so paranoid about their water, my family all laugh at me! As far as food... they ALL(even the ones I have had no problems with) had been on doggy bag till a few weeks ago, when I finally got tsc to order mazuri 6f for me. But I knew the doggy bag wasn't the best thing to have them on, so I supplimented with a variety of fruits, veggies and nuts. My prego moms also get milk soaked bread, yogurt and baby food meats.

These bad ones came from other sources. The sisters came from a science and nature camp for kids. The other 2 came from a friend's friend. I was told the same thing about all of them... under 1 year old.

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Originally Posted by jasbus

I don't mess with biters, chewers, or baby eaters...
Don't have the time or money to waste on them...

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I have a chewer right now that is on my last nerve... I think she is gonna be headed on down the road with the snake breeder as well!

I only have one biter... but she only bites when she has babies. Ever since the last of her babies were taken out the other day, she is back to her sweet as pie self. So I think I am keeping her. I am giving her a rest since she was a great surrogate for a few from a couple other mom's litters. Hoping this will give us some more bonding time, so she trusts me more with her next litter.

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Originally Posted by Adam Chandler

- How long have the moms been living together?

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My mom's usually only live together when they are not prego or nursing. The sisters had been together all their lives, so I just kept them together. They still have never been parted. The other two bad mom's I assumed had always lived together. That is how they came to me, in one of those condo-type cages. They have only recently been parted because of cannibal. I didn't want her to eat the baby of the other.

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Originally Posted by Adam Chandler

Also make sure to hold back some females from the healthy litter.

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I am keeping EVERY female from the healthy litter! I am trying very hard to expand right now. For the snake breeder I am working with.

But I will tell you this... NO MORE rats from somewhat unknown backgrounds! Very little new blood will be coming into my colony! I will NOT have this fiasco happen AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by RuthlessReptiles

Everytime I've bred rats I've at least gotten 9-10 pinks in their first litters and I didn't try to do anything fancy and these rats were from a mix of reptile shop (these ones looked pretty bad and needed a helping hand) and petco. There is definitely something off here. If you aren't throwing at least 7-10 babies in the first batch, there's a definate problem.

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My thoughts exactly!

I had a couple three, first time moms that went through that, I marked them with dye and monitored subsequent litters, all turned out well, and they are all producing litters of 14-18 now.

@llovelace - I will be giving the sisters another shot, but the cannibal is heading out my door soon. The jury is still out on the chewer... we'll see.

Good luck, I hope verything works out well