Trying at BloodBalls..

While some people dislike hybrids, I truly think they are incredible. So, since I've got a breedable female Blood, and fantastic, always-ready-to-breed male Ball, I thought why not give it a shot.

The one thing I am concerned with is my male's safety. I don't believe throwing him into her enclosure would be a great idea because she can and probably will mistake him for food. Her substrate is deep enough for her to burrow in so that also poses a problem since she'll be underneath while he'll be on top of the substrate.

I'm basically asking how to go about pairing... Would I transfer her into his tub? Would I put them both in a whole separate breeding enclosure/tub? Thanks!

Interesting project I thought about at one time, but decided against it. If you want to contact someone that is well along with this project and probably understands it better than anyone else in the industry, then I would contact Roussis Reptiles. Steve was really nice when I was looking into it and more than willing to share info on how he did it.

http://www.roussisreptiles.com/contact.html

Thanks so much!! I emailed him :)

please let us know what was said..
spooky

Hope you find responsible buyers for the product.

:ohmygod:

The only true successful and responsible way to proceed with this project is to also acquire a BlackHead Python. This way, after they hatch, you can immediately feed them to the Blackhead.
All joking aside, take a look at the KS classifieds. There are high quality pure bloods/short-tails at great prices that have been lingering for sale for over a year. What are you going to do with a bunch of mutts?

is that how this forum works???? can people really get bashed around here for having a preference/intrest that doesent fit what others think...
wheres all the people bashing lessers just because they like pastels better.
sure i dont have alot of time invested on this forum, so my thoughts are probabaly null,,, but seriously,,, if you dont have anything to contibute to a thread,,,, just go to the next one.
spooky

I'd be inclined to agree. As long as the animals aren't suffering, and the op is responsible as anyone should be with any pet they have, then there shouldn't be anything wrong with what he's doing.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Hope you find responsible buyers for the product.

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I am more than willing to do so.

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Originally Posted by bwt501

The only true successful and responsible way to proceed with this project is to also acquire a BlackHead Python. This way, after they hatch, you can immediately feed them to the Blackhead.
All joking aside, take a look at the KS classifieds. There are high quality pure bloods/short-tails at great prices that have been lingering for sale for over a year. What are you going to do with a bunch of mutts?

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I suppose hybrids aren't for everybody... This breeding is more for my interest and wanting to have the experience of raising and keeping this hybrid. I will find responsible owners, even if it means going the extra miles to ensure they have an owner who knows what they're doing.

I'm not going into this breeding with a blank-mind of how the future may turn out and what I may have to go through to find these guys a home.

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

is that how this forum works???? can people really get bashed around here for having a preference/intrest that doesent fit what others think...
wheres all the people bashing lessers just because they like pastels better.
sure i dont have alot of time invested on this forum, so my thoughts are probabaly null,,, but seriously,,, if you dont have anything to contibute to a thread,,,, just go to the next one.
spooky

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Sometimes I wonder the same thing. I didn't exactly make this thread for people that dislike hybrids to give their input. I already know what they think, and I should've added the comment I was thinking about at the end of the thread, "If you do not like hybrids then do not post, I am just looking for the answers to my questions."

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Originally Posted by Virus

I'd be inclined to agree. As long as the animals aren't suffering, and the op is responsible as anyone should be with any pet they have, then there shouldn't be anything wrong with what he's doing.

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I do like the way you think:)

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Thanks so much!! I emailed him :)

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ever get any answers?
spooky

if i had the money and saw one for the right price, i'd buy one, i dont think i'd breed it out or make my own, but it would be cool to have one

im with cmack ide own one too and just learned about all the hybrids today and im very curios now. keep us posted

I havent been on this forum as long as others but from I see Tiffany is more than competent to take care of them. I love hybrids. As long as they are sold as hybrids then there shouldent be a problem. You could ask Brian at BHB. I Know he works with them. He calls them superballs. Good luck with the project.

You should keep us updated on the progress of this project. If you do, I will be waiting for each post. :D If I had the money, I would be first in line for one of the babies.

With the female blood mistaking him for food, is it because he's so much smaller or does she strike at anything with a pulse?

With the bedding, maybe make it a little less deep so she can't burrow down into it as much.

I have no experience with the matter, but I'm curious to see what works for you. :D

I for one fully support hybrids. I'm definitely following this thread now that I've run across it man. Best of luck in your endeavors, and who ever called hybrids mutts, this is not a mutt. This is a work of art.

http://newenglandreptile.com/nerd/in.../bateater.html

No bro, thats a mutt.

I find hybrids interesting. Some more than others, but i think its pretty neat that they even exist! I feel in a private collection, there is no problem with owning one of these animals. I'm interested in how your project turns out. Keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

No bro, thats a mutt.

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BLASPHEMY. :rage:

Personally, I think most hybrids are beautiful and unique. If I had the cash and room for it, I'd definitely buy a hybrid. Though my personal favorite is probably the carpall (I think its called?) because I love the pattern and build.

Keep us updated on this! I'd love to see how it progresses.

Really want to keep posted on how this works out for you:gj:

I dont see anyone complaining when dog owners do the same thing. The "new" Labadoodle is the hottest thing around and SELLS for more than either purebloods

Let us know if you get any info from the experts. I'm also considering this cross ;)

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Originally Posted by Wapadi

I dont see anyone complaining when dog owners do the same thing. The "new" Labadoodle is the hottest thing around and SELLS for more than either purebloods

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That's because your average dog owner isn't an "enthusiast" - they own a pet and care nothing for the future of that particular breed as a whole. I, for one, do not want to purchase something with muddied genetics. Diamond Pythons have been crossbred to the point that I even question the legitimacy of many ads stating that their Diamonds are pure, and that should not be necessary.

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Originally Posted by Wapadi

I dont see anyone complaining when dog owners do the same thing. The "new" Labadoodle is the hottest thing around and SELLS for more than either purebloods

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Oh I most certainly do complain about that. I have no problem with people owning mutts as they are often times so much better as a family pet than their purebred counterparts. What I have a problem with is someone selling an obviously mixed breed animal as a 'designer'. They are mutts. Cute mutts, but mutts.

As far as snakes go I do like the look of some hybrids but I can't rationalize breeding them, myself. Or buying one for that matter.

In dogs, you can have accidental litters. In snakes there are very few species that go out and do this willingly.
I know there are some subspecies where this happens, but they are already very similar. I'm have kind of mixed opinions, and they're sure to have changed tomorrow.

Speaking of mixed opinions... Dogs are the same species. Snakes are not. Yup. My opinion just changed from the time I started writing this post to now lol.

Morphs ARE what 'designer breeds' are in dogs. Hybrids are a totally different subject.

OK as far as I know the person who posted this tread did not as for our opinions on these hybrids but asked how to get them done, so could everyone just keep the tread clean and on subject PLEASE.

As for me, please keep us posted on this project, I will be trying for superballs next year with an albino red blood to a pastel ball, and would love to see what comes out of your project. I can't wait to see if some of the offsprings will actually keep the albino gene from the blood.

I do suggest you sell your offspring with some type of documentation so that when they are sold the owner will have proof of the hybridization, so if he resells the animal, that knowlege will hopefully be passed on to the next owner.

Even if I end up keeping all the offsprings, I'm still going to love having a beautiful superball, that eats better then balls, grows better then balls, but has a milder temper then bloods. I can't wait. :gj:

Don't think its been done since Steve did it, But an EXPERIENCED keeper would eliminate any possible hazards..I don't believe it makes any difference whos enclosure it takes place in..Bloods are not snake eaters,so unless you rub a rat on your ball its not likely to eat it..:P
If you visited Steves page you may have noticed that the originals came from borneos and possibly our original granites..As with many or most of these MUTTS they didn't make a big hit due to the fact their not real eye appealing..

I say do what you want to do Tiff. People are always going to have opinions and stick with them. I get told every day how my stretched ears are so stupid, and keeping snakes is so gross. Everyone has their own opinion and it's not even worth your effort to try and change their minds because you wont.

I'm very interested in this project as well. Have you started pairing yet? Any updates?

Steve Roussis went on to breed his superball back to a ball and made a 75% what he called a "Mongrel Ball". These were even more difficult to distinguish from a normal ball. Sadly enough he peddled them off to the general public where I am sure their sullied genetics reside in many of your designer ball morphs.
As was brought up in a previous post, the Morelia community has been sour on the Diamond python for years now. Diamonds were once the trophy of the morelia world and by any sense should be more popular than carpets ever had become. When they first became available, they were naturally expensive, so lazy curious breeders who could only afford one decided to cross it with a carpet to make a 50%, then back to the parent and so on to the point where they ALMOST looked like diamonds again. Well you cant take the coffee out of the milk, so nobody trusted Diamonds anymore, especially with a closed Aussie market. Diamonds are still expensive and no one is willing to invest in a suspect project. This also left an impact on the Aussie gov't in that it has always been an argument by US keepers and importers that Australia should loosen their export laws to enable more "insurance" populations of pure Australian animals outside of Australia.
Anyway, making Frankensnakes is not usually as easy and clean cut as putting a pair together. It still may require two 1.1 pairs to get things churning. It usually involves stimulating a female with a male of the same species with a taped or glued cloaca so no "normal" breeding occurs, as well as extracting scent from the other female and smearing it on the muttmaker female. Then if the desired pair is hot n heavy, put them together and hope for the best. Its not over yet, get ready for a good percentage of grossly deformed full term monsters that inevitably comes with crossing two morphologically different species of different sizes. The ones that appear to be outwardly healthy stand a good shot at having distended organs, inappropriate sized brain cases, etc. :banana:

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

No bro, thats a mutt.

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I have to disagree and say I also believe some hybrids are a work of art. But to each his own, bro.

I can't wait until we have the "Everything Python" it'd be just like the bagel...
A little retic, burm, blood, borneo, Sumatran short tail, childrens, boelens, Jungle carpet, Coastal carpet, Spotted, anthill, afrock, Woma, blackhead, bismark ring, macklotts, savu, irian jaya carpet, darwin carpet, Green tree (of every locale), ball, calabar burrowing :gj::gj:
:ohmygod::ohmygod:

seriously, make sure they get some hardcore documentation if you sell them. good luck.

it would be nice if there was a section in this forum for hybrids so there could be useful info that could be gained to those of us that are interested so we wouldn't need to go through all of the hater posts... Or maby a section in the forum for haters, so if anybody really cared what they had to say,, they could go there to waist their own time.
i myself am interested in this post.. Please keep us updated

I am a fan of pure species. I can't see why someone would want to breed to make mutts. Why not focus energy on producing stellar animals of whatever species you enjoy working with?

I love Borneo pythons and if I ever was sold a mutt as a pure Borneo I would freaking snap !

I think it is unethical to cross species.

Just my opinion.

Yosef

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

No bro, thats a mutt.

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You are 100% correct ! A pretty mutt is still a mutt. :colbert:

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Originally Posted by YOSEF

I am a fan of pure species. I can't see why someone would want to breed to make mutts. Why not focus energy on producing stellar animals of whatever species you enjoy working with?

I love Borneo pythons and if I ever was sold a mutt as a pure Borneo I would freaking snap !

I think it is unethical to cross species.

Just my opinion.

Yosef

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your not understanding,, the OP was asking about the hybrid,, NOT what you thought about them. Your post would qualify for my proposed "hater section".
spooky

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

your not understanding,, the OP was asking about the hybrid,, NOT what you thought about them. Your post would qualify for my proposed "hater section".
spooky

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I was NOT " hating " on anyone. Ever since I joined this forum I have been respectful of ALL people.

I could imagine that a "Hater Section" would be very difficult to moderate. :taz:

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Originally Posted by bwt501

I could imagine that a "Hater Section" would be very difficult to moderate. :taz:

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:hijackd::hijackd:
I would be the one to do it but then most would cry because they can dish it. I would imagine it would be a beautiful area where I wouldnt have to hold my tongue at all:D:D
:hijackd::hijackd:

BACK ON TOPIC.................
the OP DID NOT ask about anyones smelly hole (everyones got one), they are looking for more information for a hybrid that people may already be producing.
If you have information, that is what is being looked for;)

This is where the thread went, so deal with it. You seem to have a very strong vested interest in steering this thread back on course. At this point it seems improbable. Hybrid discussions amongst blood keepers is always fuel for a good keyboard showdown.:rage:

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Originally Posted by bwt501

This is where the thread went, so deal with it. You seem to have a very strong vested interest in steering this thread back on course. At this point it seems improbable. Hybrid discussions amongst blood keepers is always fuel for a good keyboard showdown.:rage:

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How about you grow up and learn a little respect. Not for me though because I could take this to pm or one of my other forums where we are really open.
You want a good "keyboard showdown" but yet you know not how to keep on topic.
This is one of the biggest problems on ALL msg boards.............some people dont know how to say "I dont know" and leave it alone. Direct questions deserve direct answers.
I am done with my rant and will not keep this off topic.

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Originally Posted by YOSEF

I am a fan of pure species. I can't see why someone would want to breed to make mutts. Why not focus energy on producing stellar animals of whatever species you enjoy working with?

I love Borneo pythons and if I ever was sold a mutt as a pure Borneo I would freaking snap !

I think it is unethical to cross species.

Just my opinion.

Yosef

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i see it kinda like dogs, i personally love pit bulls and labs equally, but would much rather have a mix of the two

Once again- I present- DANCING BANANAS- :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: :banana:

Now if that doesnt kill this thread, I dont know what will!

Www.hybridHaven.net
For anyone LEGITIMATELY interested in hybrids.
This is a blood python/short-tail python section.
Not a hybrids section, thus anything involving other species isn't appropriate for this section, if you WANT to split hairs. JUST SAYING.
I don't care if it's legitimately interesting, or your opinions on the matter(or my own). The VAST majority of short-tail python keepers HATE hybrids. It's not too long ago that these 3 species were OFFICIALLY separate and acknowledged as separate species.
So try to understand why the majority of REAL short-tail keepers want to keep the species pure. Honestly, I'm not a "CRAZY PURIST" burn them at the stake kinda person. But to see people saying that are points aren't even valid, makes it a sad day in my book.

I don't know much about that website or how good it is, but to be honest, I sort of do wish there was a hybrid section here.

Why?

Because since it is such a sensitive topic that could go so wrong--don't we want to be WELL aware of what's going on in the hybrid world? Know who is producing them, selling them, buying them, etc? Having them here (even if it's a hidden section like the QT section) means that we could make sure nothing dangerous is happening. If we start seeing clutch after clutch of dead and dying babies we can say HEY..this is a bad idea. Make sure we have the experienced keepers who are here to help the lives of these animals.

I think hybrids are GOING to be made..whether it's accepted by the community or not. I for one do not want it to be an underground secret, because if no one knows about them or talks about them, it seems like it's that much easier for someone to accidentally introduce them into a pure blood line. I think SERIOUS amounts of public written down facts need to be seen. Maybe using iherp or something similar--Easily traceable lines, well known parents and babies, etc.

If people have to hide from the community to make the animals they want, there are going to be a lot of mistakes, a lot of dead animals, a lot of misinformed new owners, and a heck of a lot more confusion.

I dunno, I'd personally rather know. If I know someone is making ball python hybrids and he has a really 'different' looking BP..I might not buy from him. But lets say I had no idea as he kept it secret..this 'different' looking animal just looks like a cool new morph/dinker..I could buy it and accidentally introduce polluted blood lines to my animals.

Plus if it's public it's a bit more pressure to accurately label each clutch, each baby, each parent, etc. If he breeds a blood to a ball and produces nothing, but breeds that same ball to another ball and produces something weird---That could be sperm retention. You can check out that female yourself, see that she was once bred to a blood, and easily say "I don't want to take the risk"


Just my opinion. :) I'd rather be able to monitor everything safely and just do my best to support and inform everyone wanting to breed these how to do it properly, then to scare them off and have them do it wrong, not write everything down, and end up making serious mistakes.

Very few Americans can claim they are not a mutt themselves. So if you hate the people that make mutts go talk to you mom and dad, mutt.

I am an American mutt and proud of it! :salute:

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

Very few Americans can claim they are not a mutt themselves. So if you hate the people that make mutts go talk to you mom and dad, mutt.

I am an American mutt and proud of it! :salute:

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i agree, i dont think we should go all hitler with this, if someone wants a hybrid, let them have a hybrid, and if you dont like hybrids, then dont buy them, its really quite simple

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Originally Posted by Gloryhound

Very few Americans can claim they are not a mutt themselves. So if you hate the people that make mutts go talk to you mom and dad, mutt.

I am an American mutt and proud of it! :salute:

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Your parents were both the same species... Unless your the product of a human x chimpanzee... Oh wait that's illegal....

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Originally Posted by purplemuffin

I don't know much about that website or how good it is, but to be honest, I sort of do wish there was a hybrid section here.

Why?

Because since it is such a sensitive topic that could go so wrong--don't we want to be WELL aware of what's going on in the hybrid world? Know who is producing them, selling them, buying them, etc? Having them here (even if it's a hidden section like the QT section) means that we could make sure nothing dangerous is happening. If we start seeing clutch after clutch of dead and dying babies we can say HEY..this is a bad idea. Make sure we have the experienced keepers who are here to help the lives of these animals.

I think hybrids are GOING to be made..whether it's accepted by the community or not. I for one do not want it to be an underground secret, because if no one knows about them or talks about them, it seems like it's that much easier for someone to accidentally introduce them into a pure blood line. I think SERIOUS amounts of public written down facts need to be seen. Maybe using iherp or something similar--Easily traceable lines, well known parents and babies, etc.

If people have to hide from the community to make the animals they want, there are going to be a lot of mistakes, a lot of dead animals, a lot of misinformed new owners, and a heck of a lot more confusion.

I dunno, I'd personally rather know. If I know someone is making ball python hybrids and he has a really 'different' looking BP..I might not buy from him. But lets say I had no idea as he kept it secret..this 'different' looking animal just looks like a cool new morph/dinker..I could buy it and accidentally introduce polluted blood lines to my animals.

Plus if it's public it's a bit more pressure to accurately label each clutch, each baby, each parent, etc. If he breeds a blood to a ball and produces nothing, but breeds that same ball to another ball and produces something weird---That could be sperm retention. You can check out that female yourself, see that she was once bred to a blood, and easily say "I don't want to take the risk"


Just my opinion. :) I'd rather be able to monitor everything safely and just do my best to support and inform everyone wanting to breed these how to do it properly, then to scare them off and have them do it wrong, not write everything down, and end up making serious mistakes.

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that websight is a SLOW mover..
your post makes good sence.
spooky