Betcha cant name this morph

What kind of morph is this? http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMAG0089.jpg

Normal. ;)

Het piebald....

My sons guess White bellied rat sucker :)

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Originally Posted by RestlessRobie

My sons guess White bellied rat sucker :)

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Hahahaha thats the best guess so far.
This is a yellowbelly. She was produced from an ivory x yellowbelly breeding. Her sister has the same belly pattern and produced an ivory this year. This girl is cooling now getting ready to breed back to an ivory. My point of this thread is to prove not all is what it seems in the mysterious worl of ball python genetics

That's crazy. Was yellowbelly parent this subtle too? What were the results of the ivories that were produced from these genetics? I'd love to see if they differ at all.

Is there a guide anywhere of how to tell the more subtle morphs? There are so many that I look at and just think "normal".

The male was an ivory. The female had the classic shatter pattern on the belly that is the common look of the yellowbellies. The clutch produced 6 eggs. 2 ivories and 4 yellowbellies. The 2 out of 3 yellowbellies were girls and had no shatter pattern. This was one of them. The reason i kept her was cause i couldnt sell her cause noone believed me she was a yellowbelly lol. Personally i have never seen this happene before but others i have discussed this animal with before in the past has said this does happen.

I would be really interested in seeing pics of the yellowbelly parent. This girl doesn't have the speckled belly, or the yellow sides, or the flames that yellowbellies have. :confused: I'd love to see whether the yellowbelly parent looks like she does.

There is a lot that goes unnoticed due to people being bashed every time they post a thread on wether a snake looks different or not. People just assume they have a normal now a days.

I'd like to also, I see nothing on that snake that says yellowbelly, no flames, no aberrant patterning, did you produce the clutch yourself?

She looks too skinny to breed :confused:

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

There is a lot that goes unnoticed due to people being bashed every time they post a thread on wether a snake looks different or not. People just assume they have a normal now a days.

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Not bashing, just have never seen anything like her (as snake lab said), so I am curious to see the parents.

Hopefully she throws a BEL and you can prove ur point. If I didn't see the belly I would've said normal, and with the belly I had no guess. I suck when it comes to identifying the subtle morphs. Good luck and post pics if she has a clutch

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Not bashing, just have never seen anything like her (as snake lab said), so I am curious to see the parents.

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I wasnt talking about you. Just people in general. I have had animals that people on the forums say is a normal and bigger skilled breeders say it looked like genetic animals they are working with. Im just saying, if it looks different breed it out.

Is anyone crossing ivory and piebald? I just wonder if the het pied belly might cover the yellow belly. Maybe your ivory is a het piebald?

Ill see what i can do about getting a pic of the mother. I sold her because all the yellowbelly morph females im working with now are combos. Like i said only reason i kept this one was cause i couldnt sell her since she doesnt have any common yellowbelly characteristics. It is a weird thing and i know every morph has its subtle features but ive never experienced a situation like this. It would be one thing if we were talking a breeding that can produce a normal in the mix but when you breed an ivory then all the babies are yellowbellies. When you do a ivory x yellowbelly then by percentages 50% should be ivory and the other 50% should be yellowbelly. In no wY can you throw a normal in that breeding so yea it had me stumped and i actually thought i had found a flaw in the yellowbelly gene until her sister threw an ivory this year so ill breed her to an ivory and do the same and then maybe someone will buy her once they see the proof.

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

Hopefully she throws a BEL and you can prove ur point. If I didn't see the belly I would've said normal, and with the belly I had no guess. I suck when it comes to identifying the subtle morphs. Good luck and post pics if she has a clutch

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you mean ivory.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Is anyone crossing ivory and piebald? I just wonder if the het pied belly might cover the yellow belly. Maybe your ivory is a het piebald?

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There was no mention here of het pied genetics in either snake. He said it produced an ivory, looking like this, already.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Is anyone crossing ivory and piebald? I just wonder if the het pied belly might cover the yellow belly. Maybe your ivory is a het piebald?

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I agree it does look like pied markers but pied markers arent always 100%. Alot of het pied do have the pied markers but its not in all het pieds. I have seen the same markers het pieds have in other morphs. It would be great if the pied marker theory was 100% certain. Then we wouldnt have to have poss hets, we would know but those markers dont always hold true

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Originally Posted by snake lab

I agree it does look like pied markers but pied markers arent always 100%. Alot of het pied do have the pied markers but its not in all het pieds. I have seen the same markers het pieds have in other morphs. It would be great if the pied marker theory was 100% certain. Then we wouldnt have to have poss hets, we would know but those markers dont always hold true

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Whether they are true or not doesn't mean they couldn't alter the belly pattern enough to hide the yb belly.
What baffles me is that from what I can see the rest of the snake doesn't appear to look like a yellowbelly either :confused:
I can understand the OP's confusion, I'd be baffled too :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

you mean ivory.

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I would think they meant Luecistic, which if I'm not mistaken an Ivory is a form of luecism, just not a blue eyed luecistic :P

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I would think they meant Luecistic, which if I'm not mistaken an Ivory is a form of luecism, just not a blue eyed luecistic :P

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Leucistic* yes they are but "BEL" is common BP terms for a super fire or a super BluEL complex snake. That's why I made the comment.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

There is a lot that goes unnoticed due to people being bashed every time they post a thread on wether a snake looks different or not. People just assume they have a normal now a days.

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Since 99% of them turn out to be normals, that's a pretty solid assumption. And there's a reason people get bashed for posting pics of a completely normal looking ball and asking what morph it is. Especially those who post up pics taken with their crappy cell phone. Those people should be beaten with a rubber hose. Very few of those postings show even the slightest hint that it may be something special. And in the end it's all pointless...until it's proven.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Hahahaha thats the best guess so far.
This is a yellowbelly. She was produced from an ivory x yellowbelly breeding. Her sister has the same belly pattern and produced an ivory this year. This girl is cooling now getting ready to breed back to an ivory. My point of this thread is to prove not all is what it seems in the mysterious worl of ball python genetics

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You're 100% positive that this snake came from this pairing? Then why did you post it's picture on this other thread and ask do ya think it's a yellow belly?


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154906

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

You're 100% positive that this snake came from this pairing? Then why did you post it's picture on this other thread and ask do ya think it's a yellow belly?


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154906

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I believe they are different snakes. the one here has a clear belly with virtually no speckling that would indicate yellowbelly. also I believe that the one from the above link is a hatchling and he's planning to breed the girl in this thread. however, as mentioned, in my opinion she looks too small to breed any time soon, regardless of any 'hidden yb' genes.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Is anyone crossing ivory and piebald? I just wonder if the het pied belly might cover the yellow belly. Maybe your ivory is a het piebald?

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JKR has yellowbelly 100% het pied's that I believe have the typical yb markings

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

You're 100% positive that this snake came from this pairing? Then why did you post it's picture on this other thread and ask do ya think it's a yellow belly?


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154906

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Why not post it as he did? He never said, "I don't know if this is a YB, what do you guys think?" He may have been trying to make a point in THAT thread that its possible for a YB to not display the typical markings...but then decided that the subject deserved its own thread.

Personally I find the whole topic very interesting. I saw some YB's at a show once that didn't look like YB's to me at all...but the breeder was 100% sure they were.

well i would buy her :) she is pretty good luck proving her out

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

You're 100% positive that this snake came from this pairing? Then why did you post it's picture on this other thread and ask do ya think it's a yellow belly?


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=154906

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Holy crap another conspiracy theory thats gonna be created by the same people. Befote this gets out of hand and please people listen this time so we dont waste 8 pages of the same run around.

That thread was someone asking about his yellowbelly. I posted the pic and said do ya think this is one just to prove a point that not all is what it seems. But noone was responding so i posted the thread here. And yes im 100% sure of the pairing.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Leucistic* yes they are but "BEL" is common BP terms for a super fire or a super BluEL complex snake. That's why I made the comment.

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BEL in this thread could only mean black eyed leucistic, aka ivory, so I don't know how u got confused.

Maybe you should let the other guy know it is a yb. Im sure he is in the dark that you were trying to prove that typical signs of morphs aren't always present and that your snake was a demonstration of that. I do wonder if that girl will throw ivory variations that are non typical

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

SnakeLab, you probably already thought of this, but was the YB mama a virgin?

The only other thing I can think of would be that she had been previously bred by something other than the ivory, and retained some sperm from that.

Aside from that, it will be interesting to see what that little girl produces -- as krmn22 above me suggested, maybe she will throw something funky into the ivory mix, like some of the other "normal" looking variants in this complex seem to do (specter, etc. -- and yes, I'm sure there are ways to differentiate a specter from a normal, but danged if I can tell what they are!)

I find this very interesting.

I have a yellowbelly male that has only a few subtle clues to indicate what he is, and when I posted his pictures I was told there is a line or two out there that have few or no "typical" yellowbelly markers, but are proven ivory producers.

I do think caution should be exercised with the breeding, because some morphs are confusing enough as it is when compared to a normal, I don't think we need any making things worse. :P

Best of luck with your pairings, and I would be interested to see what babies she produces.

Gale

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

SnakeLab, you probably already thought of this, but was the YB mama a virgin?

The only other thing I can think of would be that she had been previously bred by something other than the ivory, and retained some sperm from that.

Aside from that, it will be interesting to see what that little girl produces -- as krmn22 above me suggested, maybe she will throw something funky into the ivory mix, like some of the other "normal" looking variants in this complex seem to do (specter, etc. -- and yes, I'm sure there are ways to differentiate a specter from a normal, but danged if I can tell what they are!)

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That could be a possibility and one ive thought of until her sister who looks just like her produced ivories this year. Because i know the pairing that produced her im confident in what she is. Could it be a flaw in the particular yellowbelly line? I dont know. But we will see what she does this year. All morphs have their subtleties and this just may be one of the yellowbellies. As i agree that its not normal not to see the markings it is possible

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Holy crap another conspiracy theory thats gonna be created by the same people. Befote this gets out of hand and please people listen this time so we dont waste 8 pages of the same run around.

That thread was someone asking about his yellowbelly. I posted the pic and said do ya think this is one just to prove a point that not all is what it seems. But noone was responding so i posted the thread here. And yes im 100% sure of the pairing.

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Holy crap that's why I asked the question! So "people" please explain yourself because that was very vague and could have been taken either way. "do ya think?"

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

BEL in this thread could only mean black eyed leucistic, aka ivory, so I don't know how u got confused.

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Black eyed leucistics are super fires, not ivories. ;)

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Black eyed leucistics are super fires, not ivories. ;)

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EXACTLY my point ....

I was never the one that was confused ... lol..

As stated, an ivory is two copies of the yellow belly gene, and while it is a leucistic morph, it is called an "ivory" or super yellowbelly.
A BEL is either a blue or black eyed leucistic, which in ball python world, only means BluEL complex snakes or super fires.