Wondering just where to begin?

Hello, im a freshie over here, just made my account this evening XD but I figured I might as well go ahead and dive in and ask some questions. Let me apoligize in advance for how long winded this post is going to be. Also it is a broad array of questions "centered" around breeding, but im not sure if it qualifies one hundred percent for this forum, so my apoligies if I indeed misplaced this thread.

Now, Ive had my normal ball python for a little under 8 months. He's my first ball python, and snake in general. And ive been tossing around the idea of breeding a clutch or two myself. In the last eight months ive completely immersed myself in information about ball pythons, the breeding cycle, the basic genetics of breeding morphs, and I have to say the more I read and learn the more appealing the idea becomes. Granted, I wont begin breeding until both snakes are at the very least 3 years old, so in the mean time im going to be acquiring the tools and technology that will be required. Now we get to the meat of this topic.

1)My first question is about probing. I know how to genericly sex ball pythons by looking at the length and curvature of the anal spurs as well as the overall size and thickness of tails, but ive also read that these methods are not exact or always accurate, probing being the only sure way. But I dont know exactly where to begin learning to probe. Ive seen a few videos explaining the process but Im not very comfortable with the possibility that I could hurt my little guy even accidentally because I may have been improperly shown. Where would I go to learn the proper technique?

2)Incubators. I've seen a lot of people like to make their own, people make entire rooms into incubators, and ive seen these little pods that some websites sell claiming that all I have to do is get the vermiculite wet it down and plug it in. I was hoping you guys could clarify the best or most safe method for me. I just want to make sure im taking all the necessary precautions to ensure the hatching goes as well as possible.

3) I will more than likely be using rubber maids for the new hatchlings, because enclosures are expensive and more difficult to clean in higher numbers. The heat source is my biggest concern. My ball python now has an overhead heat lamp, but rubber maids dont have that convenient screen lid. Are heat pads safe to use with these? Id heard that heat pads can burn your snake when used with a normal tank, much less a plastic tub with a little substrate.

4)My fiance and I have had quite a bit of debate over what kind of snake to use right off the bat. He is in favor of using a Female Spider Ball with our normal Pakul, because we would immediately get a 50% chance of getting spider ball babies. But Im more inclined to get two yellow bellies, and attempt to breed Ivory ball pythons and simply not use Pakul for breeding. Or as another option Buy a super Mojave, and breed that with a russo, or something else that will wind up a blue eyed luec. Granted we are trying not to bite off more than we can chew, and my fiance would take the route that requires less money every time. Would I be better off attempting to breed something simple like a spider ball as a starting point?


Thank you very much for reading my ramblings if you made it this far haha. I appreciate any answers/feedback you give me = P

Hello and welcome.

I'll try and start you off in the right direction as best I can. First thing is, your male is ready to go now. Males can breed as young as 6 months with no problems. It's the females that should be around 3 years and at least 1500 grams, according to most.

On probing, I can't do it myself, to darn chicken to. I can pop up to a reasonable size. Best bet is a patient reptile vet or an experienced breeder to show you the ropes.

Incubators can be as simple or as elaborate as you want. My first successful incubator was an old non-working mini fridge. We cut a big hole in the door which we covered with plexiglas and screwed in place then sealed with expanding foam insulation. We added a heat source, thermostat, and computer fan, and it works great. You can easily pick up small reptile incubators online.

On tubs and heating. I keep all my snakes in tubs, smallest to largest. Be aware that any heat source at all should be controlled by a thermostat. Heat lamps like yours really zap humidity, heat mats or heat tape eliminate that problem. I personally use Flexwatt heat tape. It can be cut to size, it's thin, flexible, durable and really easy to use. You can wire it yourself if you are handy, or they can pre-wire it for you. The Flexwatt plugs into your thermostat, the thermostat plugs into the wall. You adjust the thermostat up or down to get your ideal temps, which are best measured with a digital thermometer, since dial gauges are notoriously inaccurate.

Do yourself a favor and start small. Snake breeding is not for everyone. It's not difficult, per say, but it is very time consuming and a lot can go wrong. A LOT. Best to ease yourself into it, then with a little experience under your belt, you can expand. I'd hate to see you invest in high dollar animals only to end up with nothing. Spider babies always sell, and if you are fortunate enough to produce a few, they can fund your next project. That's how I'm funding my pied projects.

There is a lot of good information on this site, so read, read, read. Ask questions. Have fun.

Gale

Awesome. Im glad that homemade incubators are reliable( If done properly of course)

Ive heard the name of flexwatt before but I never really looked unto anything besides lamps and heat pads. The concern is where exactly the sheet would be ahdered, and if it would affect his cool side. Ive actually had a lot of preblems with my current digital thermomer/hygrometer. its just your basic walmart brand with a probe. any other suggestions as far as those go?

And you're probably right XD I LOVE to dive into things with nothing but a hastily formulated plan. I'll just have to try one clutch and see if its something we'll want to continue. Hahaha my fiance will be thrilled to see you agreed with him too.

Just my advice. Before you jump into breeding first learn proper husbandry. This will be key to being successful in breeding. Once youve learned that then get into breeding. Now keep in mind that if you plan on breeding anytime soon you will need adults which arent cheap. This is not a cheap hobby. And you dont want to cheap out on the important stuff either. Buy good products when it comes to heat sources, thermostats, caging and accessories.

Hello, and welcome I am new to the reptile breeding as well. I got a secure head on my shoulders though. I would suggest tubs I have used heat tape but I am switching to heat rope because it is safer. I am the proud owner of a beautiful spider het ghost male ball python and 2 normal females. I have owned many reptiles and learned a lot about different reptiles. ( I am using a reptibator, they are relatively cheap costing bout 99 dollars on ebay.) You're male should be minimum of 500 grams because sometimes they will go off feed but his weight is as important as hers she should be about 500 grams per foot. You could probably use heat pads with a therma stat that is what I am doing very temperarly til tomorrow (Hopefully). Probing wise I would see a vet

Thanks for the advice. For the record, I know snakes reach sexual maturity after 3 years old. I intend to raise my female from a baby just like my male, so its going to be a minimum of three years before any actual breeding would occur. Until then, like I said I will be attaining the necessary means to make that happen, as well as continuing to do research on the nitty gritty of the entire process.

And believe me, I do know the importance of making sure that your materials are quality. That would be why im trying to work out the details so many years in advance haha.

And I'll have to look into heat rope. I cant say I've heard of it but if its safer, then its definitely worth looking into.

At least 90% of keepers use heat tape, maybe more, heat tape heats more efficiently and is easier to put under a tub in a rack or even on a shelf.
I wouldn't waste my money on heat rope, but that's just me ;)

i would suggestion building a rack, there are many ideas in the diy section to get you started. get a good thermostat and flex watt for belly heat. but a few larger normal females 1000gram and up... u could check local craigslist ads for people rehoming them. start breeding your own food u could start with a few rats and a couple big plastic tubs with screened tops and ur on ur way ! u could pick up a few larger normal females and try this season to breed test the waters with normals and see how u do ! thats kinda what we are doing we have rat racks and mice rats built producing ample food a handful of normal females and a spider female that should breed this year and an albino and a spider male. start small man ! good luck

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I am using a reptibator, they are relatively cheap costing bout 99 dollars on ebay.)

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I wouldn't mess with the reptibators. When producing ball pythons, don't go cheap if you are buying an incubator. You get what you pay for.

Flexwatt comes in several different widths and wattages. I have a nice little homemade rack system for my snakes. I run a strip of flexwatt down the back of each shelf, to make a hot spot that takes up roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the tub going from back to front. Since I keep my house at a steady 77 degrees, my cool sides { the front of the tubs} stay between 77 and 80 with no heat source. The hot spots { over the flexwatt } I keep at 89.

While it may not be "by the numbers" all of my snakes seem to do very well with this arrangement and have for roughly 2 years now. Since I use an open rack system, I have hides in my tubs. I only use one hide, and the snakes happily move it from front to back as they see fit. Of course, these are very lightweight hides and I have very spoiled snakes. Most people recommend two hides per enclosure one hot and one cool, because not all snakes will re-arrange their hides like mine do. :P

I use strips of aluminum foil tape, which can be found at any hardware store, to attach the edges of the flexwatt to the shelf, not the tub. Most people here use the Accurite brand digital thermometer from Wal-Mart, they usually work well, and can be modified easily to fit your needs. If yours is giving you a problem, there are other options, some of which are reasonable, some of which are really expensive.

The big thing is to try not to get in too far too fast. I lot of people dive in headfirst with no clue what they are doing. They get overwhelmed quickly, and it's the animals who suffer. Start out small, with your lovely little boy and a nice girl. Maybe two girls if you have the room and find some you like. Keep track of what you spend each month on things like food, bedding and etc. If you don't have a good source for food, now is the time to find one where you get quality food at a decent price, as well as one that offers the different sizes you will eventually need.

Start buying future breeding supplies a little at a time, so you don't get ahead of yourself and spend way too much money. Add a few baby tubs here and there. Find some little bitty hides and water dishes. Remember the Dollar Store is your new best friend. Start keeping an eye on Craigslist and the classifieds for items that could be turned into a rack or an incubator { there is a LOT of DIY stuff to be found here }. Invest in a good scale to weigh your snakes and help you track their growth. A chart or spreadsheet to keep track of who ate what and when and who didn't, as well as who shed and other things can be very helpful.

Decide if you want to go with tubs for your new snakes, and maybe set up your Quarantine area with a tub to get familiar with how they differ from tanks or vivs. There is much to learn and much to experience on this journey into breeding. But I've got to tell you, for me at least, seeing that first tiny head peek out of that crumpled egg made everything all worth while.

Gale

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Originally Posted by Riv

Hello, im a freshie over here, just made my account this evening XD but I figured I might as well go ahead and dive in and ask some questions. Let me apologize in advance for how long winded this post is going to be. Also it is a broad array of questions "centered" around breeding, but im not sure if it qualifies one hundred percent for this forum, so my apologies if I indeed misplaced this thread.

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First of all welcome to the site and no worries about the questions thats what we're here for.

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1)My first question is about probing. I know how to genericly sex ball pythons by looking at the length and curvature of the anal spurs as well as the overall size and thickness of tails, but ive also read that these methods are not exact or always accurate, probing being the only sure way. But I dont know exactly where to begin learning to probe. Ive seen a few videos explaining the process but Im not very comfortable with the possibility that I could hurt my little guy even accidentally because I may have been improperly shown. Where would I go to learn the proper technique?

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Ok first of all the length or the tail and spurs is in no way related to sex in ball pythons.. Probing to me is a goo way to verify the sex after it has been popped but I wont probe the animal to establish sex. I'd rather see or not see hemipene's than probe.. you have years to learn so find someone at a show or your local vet to show you how to properly do it..

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2)Incubators. I've seen a lot of people like to make their own, people make entire rooms into incubators, and ive seen these little pods that some websites sell claiming that all I have to do is get the vermiculite wet it down and plug it in. I was hoping you guys could clarify the best or most safe method for me. I just want to make sure im taking all the necessary precautions to ensure the hatching goes as well as possible.

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Incubators can be as simple as a 55gal igloo cooler or as complex as a whole room..again you have some time and the size incubator is going to depend on how many clutches you're going to produce..

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3) I will more than likely be using rubber maids for the new hatchlings, because enclosures are expensive and more difficult to clean in higher numbers. The heat source is my biggest concern. My ball python now has an overhead heat lamp, but rubber maids dont have that convenient screen lid. Are heat pads safe to use with these? Id heard that heat pads can burn your snake when used with a normal tank, much less a plastic tub with a little substrate.

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Build you a rack with heat tape and a good thermostat. It is the simplest and best way to keep multiple animals in one area..

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4)My fiance and I have had quite a bit of debate over what kind of snake to use right off the bat. He is in favor of using a Female Spider Ball with our normal Pakul, because we would immediately get a 50% chance of getting spider ball babies. But Im more inclined to get two yellow bellies, and attempt to breed Ivory ball pythons and simply not use Pakul for breeding. Or as another option Buy a super Mojave, and breed that with a russo, or something else that will wind up a blue eyed luec. Granted we are trying not to bite off more than we can chew, and my fiance would take the route that requires less money every time. Would I be better off attempting to breed something simple like a spider ball as a starting point?

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This is going to be a two part answer.. first of all pick what you like remember you're the one feeding, cleaning, watering, getting bit by pooped on and kissed at by this thing not anyone else so at the end of the day you have to want to look at it..get something you're going to enjoy growing up for the next 2-3 years..

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and my fiance would take the route that requires less money every time. Would I be better off attempting to breed something simple like a spider ball as a starting point?

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Reconsider breeding then..there is nothing wrong with just have a few animals you like and keeping them as pets..Because I can tell you it isn't cheap/easy to breed these animal there is loads to consider money wise even with just one clutch. Take some time you have it and really plan for your venture..

Best of luck and P.S. if it was me and I was having to pick one snake to keep or breed.. Spider ;) Crazy color pattern and the best of the wow factor White sides.. :D


Thank you very much for reading my ramblings if you made it this far haha. I appreciate any answers/feedback you give me = P[/QUOTE]

I would deff go with heat tape for heating I got my heat cable today it is so difficult to work with racks. I am either gonna be getting 3-4" heat tape or router a slot for the cable

Thank you so much for all the useful advice and helpful information guys. You've really been an incredible help = P

So, as of now the plan is the get a female spider next time I go to a snake show. While she and Pakul are growing up, we"re going to save up for a top notch incubator. We figure if we dont continue after our first clutch we can always come back and try again later, or if we really didnt enjoy it then sell it on creigslist or something.

We're absolutely going to build ourselves a rack with heat tape as the heat source. I found a really cool video on youtube showing how to build an irrigation system for a rack meant for mice and rats which I thought was a really effective idea. I havent looked into the process of breeding my own food yet but its definitely something I want to consider. Mice are expensive. Im just going to have to get used to the idea of killing the mouse before feeding myself =/ Im only used to frozen..

And just to clear things up when I said my fiance prefers to save money I didnt mean to imply that we would be skimping, or not taking care of the little buggers like we should. Just that he doesnt want to buy Snakes that cost any more than a few hundred dollars before we've made any money back at all.

I may not have had the experience of breeding yet, but every time I even read about it I get so friggin excited. Its going to be a long three years XDD

Freaky_Frog hit it on the head with his answer.

There is no cheap way out. Period. You won't make any money back on it with that budget at all. You'll lose money, but it should just be for the hobby and fun of it anyway. Not the money.

Popping/probing is the only way to sex a BP.

One thing most of the replies left out is the importance of using a thermostat to control the under belly heat. Which in itself is important. Be it flexwatt heat tape, or an under tank heater. It must be controlled by a quality thermostat to prevent burns.

Before you start your breeding venture though, please read the care sheet on this forum and make sure you have your current BP properly set up. If you're only using a light for heat for him, I'm sorry to say that you don't, and you're probably not ready to think about breeding and caring for fragile babies yet.

Welcome to the site and good luck.

dont save up for top notch incubator... hit up craigslist find a free broken standup freezer drive twenty mins pick it up gut it and buy a few feet of heat tape and make urself one.. save a few hundred dollars that u can turn around and put into some good quality snakes !!!!!

hi, probing is one of those things that you just gotta do to learn how. lobe up the right size probe and be ease. i personally am more afraid to pop.
if its gonna be a few years before the breeding starts, and your just a little bit handy, i would make my own incubator. including the thermostat, i might have 300$ in mine,, and its more than ill ever need.
enclosures,,,,,=== rubermaids/steralite, flexwatt, and a good praportional thermostat. there are some good DIY racks out there on youtube that will allow you to house 6 to 8 snakes comfortabaly for around 100$.
you mentioned breeding something simple,,, they all breed the same, but remember, you get out what you put in. also familiarise yourself with punat squares (sp?), some of those "dream snakes" only come in about a 1 in 16 chance. know genetics!!!! good luck!
spooky
ps,, ill try to post a pic of my DIY incubator. forget that,, pics seems too hard. why cant thee be a copy past type thing for pics?? a pic does say a thousand words???????????????????