Started breeding our own rats... question about adding breeders...

Our BP collection has grown significantly over the past several months so we made the decision to start breeding our own feeders. We were able to obtain a used freedom breeder set up from our snake breeder and we started out with 3 levels of 3 bigger tubs and have since added 5 levels of smaller bins for the birthing location. So, we have 9 larger tubs total currently and 25 smaller birthing tubs. We currently have set up of 4 sets of 2:6 and getting another set of 2:6 with 6 additional females to cycle in during birthing and nursery times. Then we plan on having a couple of tubs for nursery and weanlings.

We aren't worried about producing too many as any additional we have we will be supplying to our snake breeder we work with, but my question is -

What is the easiest in your opinion as far as adding new breeders into your system -

- buying new breeders and introducing them into your flow
or
- raising up babies that you make and adding them into your flow.

I'm sure we'll be raising some up but didn't know if it was better to add non-related ones periodically for breeding better kinds or if it is ok to just keep adding related ones back into it when they are old enough to breed. And how old do they need to be to add them back in. I know its best to wait til they are a little older but what is the best in opinions of what would be best.

I am pretty new to this too. But what I prefer is to raise my own to be breeders. Then I know they are healthy. I always wonder about the conditions that my unknown rats come from. And I'd like to know lineage. Even though I am breeding to feed, I want to make the best rats I possibly can. Though I am looking at purchasing a few more females, I prefer to raise my own whenever possible.

I assume you mean adding to a breeding colony...
If it's a female you are adding, add a young female, you can pretty much add in a female whenever. Occasionally, it may cause a fight from a over-protective momma, but most of the time, adding a female is no problem. If you want to add an older/breeder aged female, wait until the babies are 2 weeks old, or no babies at all in the tub.
Males, same as older females, just be sure there are no pinks in the tub. 9 times out of 10 there will be no problem, but it's just safer to wait...

If you are pulling the females out to give birth, it doesn't really matter, just add em in, and watch for fighting. Doesn't happen too often, but every once and a while, you may get a little cat fight..
Of course the best way, is to just hold back your females, and occasionally change out males...

Quote:

---

- buying new breeders and introducing them into your flow
or
- raising up babies that you make and adding them into your flow.

---

The best is often to hold back future breeders from your own stocks unless of course the stock you are already working with is poor.

Adding new blood means quarantine, risk of issues, no guarantee that the animals will produce (they could be too old) or have a good production etc.

I originally founded my colony with animals from 3 different sources, at the time I did not know anyone breeding rats and had to settle for pet store rats.

Now 5 years later I have a very strong colony and I no longer bring in new blood, all my animals are selectively bred for their production (I only hold back future breeders from litters of 14 minimum) and temperament (no bitter).

Thanks :) - yea the babies wont be in the tubs with the other adults - we will be taking the pregnant females out before giving birth and then raising the babies in a nursery setting :) We just wanted to make sure we always had enough females circulating when some were in other stages :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasbus

I assume you mean adding to a breeding colony...
If it's a female you are adding, add a young female, you can pretty much add in a female whenever. Occasionally, it may cause a fight from a over-protective momma, but most of the time, adding a female is no problem. If you want to add an older/breeder aged female, wait until the babies are 2 weeks old, or no babies at all in the tub.
Males, same as older females, just be sure there are no pinks in the tub. 9 times out of 10 there will be no problem, but it's just safer to wait...

If you are pulling the females out to give birth, it doesn't really matter, just add em in, and watch for fighting. Doesn't happen too often, but every once and a while, you may get a little cat fight..
Of course the best way, is to just hold back your females, and occasionally change out males...

---

That is one of the reasons we decided to start raising our own along with the cost associated with buying then from someone else. We also were running into the issue of the only place local to buy them store wise doesnt carry very many and its hard to meet our demand weekly :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by extremeballs

I am pretty new to this too. But what I prefer is to raise my own to be breeders. Then I know they are healthy. I always wonder about the conditions that my unknown rats come from. And I'd like to know lineage. Even though I am breeding to feed, I want to make the best rats I possibly can. Though I am looking at purchasing a few more females, I prefer to raise my own whenever possible.

---

When I decided to add a dumbo female into my colony, I did as was suggested above. I added her when there were no pinks in the tub and no visible prego females. I had no issues. For the most part, I just hold back females from large liters.

I don't add breeders if possible. I start over or hold back pups. Again, if possible. If not introduce younger females into tubs with females who weaned and separated from a litter 1 - 2 weeks back. I find that these females will care for the little one or find it more so tolerable. I try not to introduce small females with males because the stress of being chased around could induce a myco flare.

Don't worry about myco and adding rats... They can get it from any source, it's not gonna just flare up when you add new rats to your colony just because it can.
There is no cure for the disease, but it's not the end of the world if a few get it... If I find a rat that I suspect has myco, I usually inject some Baytril and watch the tub for a flare up. After three or four days, it's usually under control, and life goes on. On the rare occasion that is develops further and the babies start acting up,, I just cull them out. In 20+ years, Ive only had to do this a handful of times. There is nothing you can do to stop it, but you can control it. All rats can get it, but it's stress that makes it go out of control..
If you think you have babies that have myco, in my opinion, just cull them out and let momma and the rest of the tub go. 95 times out of 100 it's done.

And, don't mistake an inner ear infection for myco!!! that happens all the time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasbus

Don't worry about myco and adding rats... They can get it from any source, it's not gonna just flare up when you add new rats to your colony just because it can.
There is no cure for the disease, but it's not the end of the world if a few get it... If I find a rat that I suspect has myco, I usually inject some Baytril and watch the tub for a flare up. After three or four days, it's usually under control, and life goes on. On the rare occasion that is develops further and the babies start acting up,, I just cull them out. In 20+ years, Ive only had to do this a handful of times. There is nothing you can do to stop it, but you can control it. All rats can get it, but it's stress that makes it go out of control..
If you think you have babies that have myco, in my opinion, just cull them out and let momma and the rest of the tub go. 95 times out of 100 it's done.

And, don't mistake an inner ear infection for myco!!! that happens all the time!

---

Mycoplasma pulmonis is carried by domestic Norway rats. Some feral too. When introducing rats the worry for a stressed induced Myco flare that can cause further complications is real. (such as lower respiratory infections)

Culling rats with Myco would leave you with nothing. Culling rats that have become ill or compromised from Myco will happen but controlling stress overall will help you avoid it. Still, you will always have those rats that start a wild fire of sneezing fits. Get rid of them asap and sanitize. :)

EDIT Jasbus, what dosage do you use of Baytril? Also, good advice about the inner ear infection. I completely forgot about that.

I very rarely cull a rat or babies if I suspect myco. I also very rarely inject Baytril. An adult female rat I usually give less than 1cc. Has to be injected under the skin, but not deep in the muscle or it can cause a serious ulcer, not pretty!

Like I said, I just cull out the babies, just to stop the stress and slow death of a weak young rat.
Very rarely does an adult have to be culled.

As for ear infections, I use a piece of baytril tab with peanut butter... usually clears up after two or three treatments.
I like baytril injectible, cause I can use it on a lot of differnet animals, so I always keep it around...Ball pythons come to mind:rolleyes:
If I don't have baytril tabs, I use tetracycline for birds...cheap, and you can get it without using your vet... My vet pretty much gives me whatever I need though..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasbus

I very rarely cull a rat or babies if I suspect myco. I also very rarely inject Baytril. An adult female rat I usually give less than 1cc. Has to be injected under the skin, but not deep in the muscle or it can cause a serious ulcer, not pretty!

Like I said, I just cull out the babies, just to stop the stress and slow death of a weak young rat.
Very rarely does an adult have to be culled.

As for ear infections, I use a piece of baytril tab with peanut butter... usually clears up after two or three treatments.
I like baytril injectible, cause I can use it on a lot of differnet animals, so I always keep it around...Ball pythons come to mind:rolleyes:
If I don't have baytril tabs, I use tetracycline for birds...cheap, and you can get it without using your vet... My vet pretty much gives me whatever I need though..

---

Where do you get your baytril from? Personally I do not have a good source. Vets around here charge insanely. I've used tetracycline but with horrible results. What dosage are you going by? They sayknow it effects fetal stages so I don't use it with preggos, have you? What is your general experience with it?

I cull just as you do: preventing a spread plus elongated deaths.

Myco Ive noticed, is more so flared up when cage is dirty and cage not cleaned enough to disinfect the germs. Cant be passed on if one has it but if caught late the rat will go down hill in matter of days losing weight if you dont have baytril to give.

Now Pneumonia is another thing to watch out, can look like myco flare but its not. Wet Noses is a bad sign and can be passed onto the rest of rats in the tub.


I also hold back females and males when needing to replace groups. havent had to add any rats for a long time.

I usually keep a bottle of Tylan on hand. Can get 200 or 50 i believe at TSC. Can do injections or just add 1cc per 8oz bottle of water and worked for me on a male that had it.

Doesnt work as fast when in water.

I do both. I like to add new blood to keep up the genetic diversity. I have added adult males once or twice. Since they are with females or by themselves - no problems.

I have also added very young outsiders to the colony to be brought up by my best moms - both have worked without a hitch - for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I usually keep a bottle of Tylan on hand. Can get 200 or 50 i believe at TSC. Can do injections or just add 1cc per 8oz bottle of water and worked for me on a male that had it.

Doesnt work as fast when in water.

---

I've used the tetracycline powdered stuff and they ended up getting worse. :/ I wish I could get some baytril but I can't. Taylan 200 injectable can be bought at my local feed store. I'm afraid to use it since the concentration is so dang high and I use small bottles. Any suggestions? Im having to bring in blood and it's a crack and half.

Baytril is vet only. You can pick it uP at herp shows sometimes. But, the 2.27% small vial is around $60.
Tylan works also, but I personally only use it on larger animals, is boas and burms. You have to use so much of it, it tends to leave "soft spots" that take forever to heal up. I tried it on rabbits once, was not happy with the results, and ended up following up with fortaz, which is also expensive like baytril.
Overall, baytril is the best "fix all" that I've found. so, I buy it from my vet and always keep it unhand. Fortaz, if I need it, I just buy as I need if the baytril didn't completely work. Usually a bad RI in a ball python.
Tetracycline works, but is kind of old school. You can get it from farm stores in a pinch or pet stores(I carry it), but it's like OTC versus Dr prescribed.
Bad thing about carrying oracyn/cyclines, I get shady "customers" asking for it to "cure a fish", or bird. When I ask what the symptoms are, they never know. Hmmm, shoulda kept it zipped up, now shouldn't ya? Of course I don't sell it to them, but it's always funny. Even had them call and flat out ask if I have it for them to use for an "infection".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jasbus

Baytril is vet only. You can pick it uP at herp shows sometimes. But, the 2.27% small vial is around $60.
Tylan works also, but I personally only use it on larger animals, is boas and burms. You have to use so much of it, it tends to leave "soft spots" that take forever to heal up. I tried it on rabbits once, was not happy with the results, and ended up following up with fortaz, which is also expensive like baytril.
Overall, baytril is the best "fix all" that I've found. so, I buy it from my vet and always keep it unhand. Fortaz, if I need it, I just buy as I need if the baytril didn't completely work. Usually a bad RI in a ball python.
Tetracycline works, but is kind of old school. You can get it from farm stores in a pinch or pet stores(I carry it), but it's like OTC versus Dr prescribed.
Bad thing about carrying oracyn/cyclines, I get shady "customers" asking for it to "cure a fish", or bird. When I ask what the symptoms are, they never know. Hmmm, shoulda kept itui zipped up, now shouldn't ya? Of course I don't sell it to them, but it's always funny. Even had them call and flat out ask if I have it for them to use for an "infection".

---

Tylan works we for rabbits from my experience. Anyways I have a show coming up maybe I can get some baytril. I know I can get tabs but im not sure id want to go that route. Im using tetteacycline as a test right now, well see how it goes.

The injectable is better.
Yeah, I use Tylan on larger animals, don't like it for smaller animals. Mainly because of the amount that has to be injected. And the 200 is so thick, it makes it even worse to use...

I have a 1.2 group on water soluble tetracycline powder for 4 days in a 8 oz bottle. I used a jug filled with 1.3 liters of water and a 500mg packet mixed in. The medicine bottle needs to be changed every 3 days and the water bottle needs to be switched out everyday. Both are covered due to light sensitivity.

Today after listening to their chest I can see a small improvement. I will continue the medicine for another 4 days and see how everyone is doing.

I have one girl who has sneezing fits at least 1-2 times a day. Might this help her? I could get it at say Tractor Supply? Or would PetSmart or PetCo be a better bet?

Tylan can be bought at TSC yes.

But most rats that sneeze are usually irritated by the bedding. I try to get rid of rats with allergies best i can to bedding. Right now i have a few that will sneeze only on cleaning day, after that very little if any sneezing

Oh! Maybe I am causing it then! I have been keeping her from the others (in case she was contagious) and have her in her own tub, that I clean everyday. Thought if I kept it cleaner, she would get better. I don't recall if when I first noticed it, it was cleaning day or not. Might have been. She doesn't have a wet nose or anything like that. Just sneezes.

If shes on pine, try aspen. If same result then could have a Myco flare

I have only ever used aspen.

Hows the ammonia build up on aspen with her. That can cause problems with respiratory as well. If you dont see any red fluid from eyes or nose, then chances are shes allergic to something.

No ammonia buildup whatsoever. I clean her tub everyday. There has never been any red fluid at all. Must be allergic to something I guess. It doesn't seem to bother her much. Do you think it is ok to put her back into the population then? Or maybe a vet visit?

thats your call, If her nose isnt wet then shes fine to put back.