Having A Lot of Trouble Please Help..

I am just starting my rat breeding systems and every time it seems like things are getting good they go downhill. Today I had checked a tub with a 1.3 male to female and the male was dead with basically all his internal organs gone, and also three dead babies. (babies about crawler size).. It seems like I have been having terrible luck with breeding rats... Mice i have no problem but I have been getting more cannibals in rats than mice. I use the lab block 4018, aspen bedding and water.. Any suggestions? What do you do when this happens? None of the moms are too old or too young, I just keep having these terrible situations where when something goes bad; it never gets better... To top it off my Pied Male died last Thursday.. Not a great week, help me out and tell me your set up and what you do with pregnant females either separate or keep them with the male? Please help..

Did they have enough water/food?

Sorry for your bad week :(

Bad genetics could be at play?
When did you last see your male alive and did he act strange then?
What do you keep them the rats in?
Did they have full access to food at all times?
Water at all times?

Being a smaller ball python breeder(under 20 breeding females) we separate our females when they get close to dropping their litters.
We have 20qt tubs in racks for the moms to deliver and take care of their baby's in and it works excellent for us.
Females that eat other rats are called food, as are their babies.
If you can't afford to lose the female yet cull her after holding back some females and start over.

I've had no issues with babies held back from a female that had previously cannibalized, I'd heard it could be hereditary but that wasn't my experience.O

This is one of our momma racks, we have another 6 tub rack just like it
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/PICT4876.jpg

What size is the tub? Post a photo of your setup.

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Originally Posted by llovelace

Did they have enough water/food?

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Yes all the time, i even sneak some in just so they have free floating food.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Sorry for your bad week :(

Bad genetics could be at play?
When did you last see your male alive and did he act strange then?
What do you keep them the rats in?
Did they have full access to food at all times?
Water at all times?

Being a smaller ball python breeder(under 20 breeding females) we separate our females when they get close to dropping their litters.
We have 20qt tubs in racks for the moms to deliver and take care of their baby's in and it works excellent for us.
Females that eat other rats are called food, as are their babies.
If you can't afford to lose the female yet cull her after holding back some females and start over.

I've had no issues with babies held back from a female that had previously cannibalized, I'd heard it could be hereditary but that wasn't my experience.O

This is one of our momma racks, we have another 6 tub rack just like it
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/PICT4876.jpg

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http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/...0828-00031.jpg
this is my set up, the deeper ones are the breeders, the gray one is either a holding or a mom rack i guess

You have bad genes. Kill them all and start over. Your set up looks good. Keep the bedding nice and clean, make sure they always have food and water. Pick up a few trios of weanlings and let them grow up together. Keep the males in with the females. Moving them only adds stress. In the wild rats raise their litters in the colony. Males should show affection for the babies as the females do. Do not bother them for a couple days after they drop a litter. Avoid high noise or traffic areas. I do all of this and get 25-35 babies each month per tub.

What are you feeding? Where did you get your rats?

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

What are you feeding? Where did you get your rats?

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Yes thats what I'm wondering. Either lack of space or low protein in thier diets is really the only obivous cause to the situation.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

What are you feeding? Where did you get your rats?

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Originally Posted by BrianD

Yes thats what I'm wondering. Either lack of space or low protein in thier diets is really the only obivous cause to the situation.

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Native Earth 4018 rodent diet 18% protein, and i got my rats all as mediums and raised them up from another rat/food breeder in my area.

What are your temps?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

What are your temps?

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77 coldest at night and up to 85 during the day

How are you keeping them? Garage or indoors? What are you measuring your temps with?

So far I don't see any red flags, I would start over with new rats, from a better or different source. :cool:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

How are you keeping them? Garage or indoors? What are you measuring your temps with?

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garage, fully insulated, i'm measure the temps with a temp gun, and also a digital zilla thermometer/hydrometer

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

So far I don't see any red flags, I would start over with new rats, from a better or different source. :cool:

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I guess i'm going to have to... :(:(:( its a shame because some are dumbos :please:

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Originally Posted by Python Lair

I guess i'm going to have to... :(:(:( its a shame because some are dumbos :please:

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Hopefully you can find a great breeder near you and buy breeders from them.

Are there any constant noises near the racks? Do you feed strictly 4018? It's only 5% fat, which I think is kinda low. When I had rats I fed them this block but I would supplement their diet with sunflower seeds and the occasional few pieces of cat kibble to up the fat in their diet.

What other problems have you had with the rats? Are your rats tame/handleable or skittish, and do you handle them a lot?

The only thing I can think of is maybe they need a little bit more fat and protein in thier diet. Try giving them some more cat food over the next few day or even table scrapes. Maybe depending on how much you love them cook them some scrabbled eggs with some butter... not alot. Try that for a few days. If it stops them you may have you answer.

It would be ashamed having to get a new collection going and a pain in the butt too.

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Originally Posted by TacoTheFaco

Are there any constant noises near the racks? Do you feed strictly 4018? It's only 5% fat, which I think is kinda low. When I had rats I fed them this block but I would supplement their diet with sunflower seeds and the occasional few pieces of cat kibble to up the fat in their diet.

What other problems have you had with the rats? Are your rats tame/handleable or skittish, and do you handle them a lot?

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never noisy where they are, and i do feel 4018 but i also put peanut butter in their tub sometimes to give them a boost. Some of the rats are tame but i don't handle them a lot since i want to give them their peace.

How long had the male been in with the rest of the females? when I have a death in a tub, I usually replace it with a young rat. With males, they tend to get more docile as they get older. Sometimes that can be a bad thing when trying to add a male to a new setup. If the male isn't aggressive enough, or if the female(s) see him as a threat, they will simply kill him. Eating him is just natural, it's not a sign of a bad rat.
I've also seen the opposite on some occasions... Sometimes adding a new male to the tub, he will be the aggressor, but they usually don't kill the females, just beat them up. That doesn't happen very often.

Or, he may have just died.... It happens. Eating the dead rat is just extra protein, any rat will do it...

I know alot of people like to seperate the females as they get pregnant, and I even tried doing it for a while myself... but, I find that keeping a breeding group together is less stressfull on all of them... Not everyone will agree, but I just see it as, the females have to "re-adjust" when you put them back in the mix.