Simple but effective small Scale breeding

Well before I joined here I was in a situation--- having a hard time to find feeders. Well started doing some research online and surprisingly BP.net showed up alot on the searches. So the research I gather and eventually put this small 1.2 breeding colony together for my BP.

Consist of two 35 gallon totes. Has a water bottle in each and a homemade hanging food hoppers also. 1 tote is strictly for the daddy and any babys that are boys. The other tote serves as nursing and eventually for all females. Total cost was about 40$ for the two totes, two shoe boxes and water bottles. Already had the hardware cloth around.

Also I'm sure the question of food may arise.. I feed mine high protein dog food(27/15)Ferret type food(consisting of seeds,nuts,dryed fruit) I also give them table scrapes.

But before the momma had the babies I had to go on a search for future feeders to last Jake till the babies are big enough. So now since she had the babies I should not have any more issues with finding food. Considering my other doe is expecting.

Male tote is the back, Female tote is the front one.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._009_thumb.jpg

The male tub. My male breeder near the bottom close to the other two. Right now I wanting on Jake to shed... but in the male tub also consist of 1.2 youngings. The two young females will be the next to go.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._010_thumb.jpg
Male Tub again.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._011_thumb.jpg

Now the female tub and PINKIES.
I have two plastic shoe boxes to help keep the females calm since they are/will be raising babies.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._013_thumb.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._012_thumb.jpg
Momma and Soon to be momma layin on her back. I think she is getting uncomfortable.


Momma 1 gave birth 5 days ago to 7 pinkies. That was her first litter and glad there was no problems.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._014_thumb.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._015_thumb.jpg

Here is a pic of the .2 breeding females. The momma is on the bottom and the pregnant doe is on top.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._016_thumb.jpg

Here is the expecting mom. She is a little bit smaller than the other one. So I'm guessing some where along the lines of 4-6 babies expected.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._017_thumb.jpg


I would like to thank BP.net for helping me on my quest for feeders. Its been a great help along with other sources on the net. I know its not rocket science to breed rats, but helps clear up alot of confusion along the way. One thing I have learned is patience is the key. So far its been a rewarding and fun quest.

Questions,comments, constructive criticism are welcome.

Nice! :gj:

Nice going...
My only advice is:
Dog food is crap.... 27% protein is way too high for rats. I know you are supplementing with other stuff, but that's just way too much protein for rats. Eventually, your stock will start having health issues, starting with skin irritations, and then kidney problems. The babies started on such a high protein diet will be the first to start with the issues.
The highest it should be is 19-20%.


Don't take it the wrong way. Just trying to help, been breeding rodents for over 20 years...

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Originally Posted by jasbus

Nice going...
My only advice is:
Dog food is crap.... 27% protein is way too high for rats. I know you are supplementing with other stuff, but that's just way too much protein for rats. Eventually, your stock will start having health issues, starting with skin irritations, and then kidney problems. The babies started on such a high protein diet will be the first to start with the issues.
The highest it should be is 19-20%.


Don't take it the wrong way. Just trying to help, been breeding rodents for over 20 years...

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Jasbus has you covered with good info. The only other thing I can see is your breeder male might have issues with other males in the tub with him, related or not. Once male rats breed, they really shouldn't be placed with other male rats in my opinion.

Regards,

B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jasbus

Nice going...
My only advice is:
Dog food is crap.... 27% protein is way too high for rats. I know you are supplementing with other stuff, but that's just way too much protein for rats. Eventually, your stock will start having health issues, starting with skin irritations, and then kidney problems. The babies started on such a high protein diet will be the first to start with the issues.
The highest it should be is 19-20%.


Don't take it the wrong way. Just trying to help, been breeding rodents for over 20 years...

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So I would be best to cut the dog food out all together. So what is some good foods sold like at walmart, target, pets mart? What good recipes that i can put together like from feedstore?

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Originally Posted by BrianD

What good recipes that i can put together like from feedstore?

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Rodent blocks can be got at your feedstore;)

Most feedstores are happy to order you the rodent food if they don't carry it. That way you can get a huge bag for super cheap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianD

So I would be best to cut the dog food out all together. So what is some good foods sold like at walmart, target, pets mart? What good recipes that i can put together like from feedstore?

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Commercial rodent food... all you need for rats. They don't need any supplement as long as you get a good quality rodent diet. Mazuri, ADM, Harlan, even Kaytee isn't too bad... The only one I'd stay away from is Kent..
All of these may "sound" expensive, especially when you only have a handful of rats, but in the long run, it will save you money.
You should be able to go to a farmer's co-op and order from them if they don't carry it. Shouldn't be more than $30 for a 50# bag. Most people can find it for around $20-25.
Or, do what some of my friends do... They find a breeder(like me), who's nice enough to order a few extra bags when they order... Comes out even cheaper, like $17-20 a bag..

EDIT: By Kaytee, I mean, Kaytee rodent blocks, not the crap seed mixes...

Not sure where you all live and what chain stores are around... But would anybody know if southern states carries stuff like this? I've got a tractor supply near by but still an hour away. Thats really the only type of feed stores that I know of around this area.


But thanks for the help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

Jasbus has you covered with good info. The only other thing I can see is your breeder male might have issues with other males in the tub with him, related or not. Once male rats breed, they really shouldn't be placed with other male rats in my opinion.

Regards,

B

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I will keep that in mind and an eye open. So far nothing probably bc the younger male might not be much of a threat. But if need be... Ive got 2 10 gallon tanks and 40 gallon long along with those totes. So will wait and see.

I feed mine "weight control" dog food which is low in protein, and I supplement with vegetables from leftover dinner. They seem to do well on this diet, and the dog food is much cheaper.

However, Mazuri is the best brand of rat food I know of, if that's the route you wish to take.

I feed 16% sunny acres hog feed to mine, and also give left over race & table scraps, my girls have litters of 14-22

I really like your nest box tubs! It's great and I'll have to give it a shot. :)

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Originally Posted by bokuza

I really like your nest box tubs! It's great and I'll have to give it a shot. :)

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Go for it. Mine use them so its not a waste of money. Also I figured would help keep them warm since tempatures will be coming down in the next coming weeks.

I also put twigs in there for them to chew on. Momma 2 had the twigs in the nest box with a elaborate nest. No babies but either tonight or next two days.

Probably going to get one for the male tub. That way they can sleep together and help warm thier selves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianD

Go for it. Mine use them so its not a waste of money. Also I figured would help keep them warm since tempatures will be coming down in the next coming weeks.

I also put twigs in there for them to chew on. Momma 2 had the twigs in the nest box with a elaborate nest. No babies but either tonight or next two days.

Probably going to get one for the male tub. That way they can sleep together and help warm thier selves.

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Very nice. Hope she has them soon. Keep us updated. Were supposed to have a double rex give birth (spotting!) but she's being a pain and waiting till we all sleep. Hopefully in the morning we will have pups. Most likely quite a few too. Shes huge lol.

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Originally Posted by bokuza

Very nice. Hope she has them soon. Keep us updated. Were supposed to have a double rex give birth (spotting!) but she's being a pain and waiting till we all sleep. Hopefully in the morning we will have pups. Most likely quite a few too. Shes huge lol.

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I'm new to the game so rat morphs still confuse me. Lol rats are rats to me. Yeah if she is spotting then she will probably have them tonight. I can tell a difference in size with mine since yesterday. So who knows both of our rats liable to give birth tonight.:weirdface

I know the research I did said that rats usually give birth at night. Well I happen to walk in/check on her but momma 1 gave birth between 2-3pm on 9/10/11. Atleast I got to witness the last half of labor. But good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianD

I'm new to the game so rat morphs still confuse me. Lol rats are rats to me. Yeah if she is spotting then she will probably have them tonight. I can tell a difference in size with mine since yesterday. So who knows both of our rats liable to give birth tonight.:weirdface

I know the research I did said that rats usually give birth at night. Well I happen to walk in/check on her but momma 1 gave birth between 2-3pm on 9/10/11. Atleast I got to witness the last half of labor. But good luck.

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Double rex is a patchwork. You know the crazy fur with curls? If you breed two of those together you get double rex...a fake hairless rat. My girl has built herself a BURROW. Not a nest, oh no. Theres no bedding on half the cage and she even built a roof of paper towels. Her spotting is becoming heavier and I can see an expanding bulge. It's her first litter and so we don't know how great of a mom she'll be.

Wouldn't it be funny if they both gave birth tonight?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianD

Not sure where you all live and what chain stores are around... But would anybody know if southern states carries stuff like this? I've got a tractor supply near by but still an hour away. Thats really the only type of feed stores that I know of around this area.

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You can find a list of dealers that carry (or can special order) lab block near you by looking up your zip code on the dealer locator sections of the lab block manufacturers's websites.
Here are some good manufacturers:

Mazuri.com (Ask for 6F rodent diet)

Zeigler.com

Harlan / Native Earth (I recommend emailing tekladinfo@harlan.com for info about local dealers.)

I don't know if you attend any local reptile shows but I usually see 33-50lb bags of rodent food being sold fairly cheap at these shows. (which is were I love to get them so I can haggle them down a few more bucks :devilish:)

And if all else fails PetFoodDirect.com can ship 40lb bags of Harlan / Native Earth 18% protein lab block to your door.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianD

Also I'm sure the question of food may arise.. I feed mine high protein dog food(27/15)Ferret type food(consisting of seeds,nuts,dryed fruit) I also give them table scrapes.

Questions,comments, constructive criticism are welcome.

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I really like the nest boxes. Its a great idea. I may have to steal that idea from you. :)
Do the females share nest boxes or do they choose to go into their own separate ones?

Dog food isn't all that great. Its alright for a very brief temporary food if rat formulated food is out of stock. Other posters have already suggested rodent blocks. I agree with them as well. The blocks contain everything a rat needs and it helps litter production.

Side note: ferrets don't eat seeds, nuts, and fruit. They are strict carnivores. Their bodies cannot digest carbohydrates and fiber.
;p

Good luck with your breeding! Keep us updated and post pictures of your litters! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bokuza

Double rex is a patchwork. You know the crazy fur with curls? If you breed two of those together you get double rex...a fake hairless rat. My girl has built herself a BURROW. Not a nest, oh no. Theres no bedding on half the cage and she even built a roof of paper towels. Her spotting is becoming heavier and I can see an expanding bulge. It's her first litter and so we don't know how great of a mom she'll be.

Wouldn't it be funny if they both gave birth tonight?

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How is your female doing? Mine gave birth last night to 7 pinkies. Thats weird both my females on their first litter gave birth to 7 babies each only 6 days apart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I really like the nest boxes. Its a great idea. I may have to steal that idea from you. :)
Do the females share nest boxes or do they choose to go into their own separate ones?

Dog food isn't all that great. Its alright for a very brief temporary food if rat formulated food is out of stock. Other posters have already suggested rodent blocks. I agree with them as well. The blocks contain everything a rat needs and it helps litter production.

Side note: ferrets don't eat seeds, nuts, and fruit. They are strict carnivores. Their bodies cannot digest carbohydrates and fiber.
;p

Good luck with your breeding! Keep us updated and post pictures of your litters! :)

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Thanks yeah I about to change thier diet again. I've called a couple feed stores around here luckly one has got the mazuri. I forgot what its actually is but it ferret food. Seeds, etc etc. Now you may have more experience than I do but why would seeds fruits be labeled for ferret food?
But between the two females each one has a nesting box of thier own.

I swear some people lack common sense. I called southern states a couple days ago. I spoke to someone who does the ordering. After a lengthy discussion I thought I made my point across. Mazuri 6f... yes we can order that for you no problem. Well today went up there to pick it up and it was a complete 180.

How can you get rodent food confused with rabbit food?!? Ugh...needless to say spent about 30 mins talking and trying to get things straight. After being frustrated so I said forget the rabbit food or mazuri. I just went ahead an picked up some hog food pellets(non-meds). Ive seen that its suitable to use and will give it a try. So far no health problems have emerged from the dog food, but they do stink more and are alot greasy then when I first got them.

But I just don't know... some people couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag to save thierselves.



On a side funny note... my snake has become spoiled real quick. Now since I have a steady supply of rats he has been escaping his enclosure at nights. This morning I found him curled up in the closest. Most people got skeletons in thier closet while I have a 4+ ft BP.:rofl: But I took care of that situation also... added about 20 pounds of weight across the top of his tank.