What cheap thermostat do you recommend?

I'm going to add a 4th snake to my collection and now I need a thermostat. However, I dont know which one to get for my snake rack and how to use it. I saw the zilla temperature controller, but I dont know how it will control the temperature when it doesnt have a reading for the temperature. So I need help, which thermostat, that is cheap, is good to use for a snake rack and explain how to use it please.

this is the one i have and it seems to do pretty well. only varies by up to 2 degrees and super easy to use. just plug the heat pad in and set the temp on the digital readout and your good to go.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

does this work for flexwatt tape for racks?

most likely it will. it handles up to 1000W so thats quite a bit of flexwatt.

I use the thermostat above on my rack with flexwatt and it works great. The only problem it will allow the temp to drop 2-3 degrees before kicking back on. Really not a big deal, for the price you can't beat it.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

buy cheap get cheap, and sometimes it will cost you more in the long run. when it fails, hopefully the only thing you will need to replace is the thermostat.

i just got a hydrofarm thermostat in the mail. i bought it to test to see if i feel safe with it or not. planning on at least 2 tests right now. one i am going to plug it in with nothing plugged into it and place the probe right next to the probe for my herpstat. try and see where it reads compared to a known good brand. another test is i have a bunch of random tubs laying around. i figure ill throw a quick rack together and put in tubs and aspen and flex watt and see how well it heats teh tubs. no snakes will be in the tubs. i also want to run it with heat rope and compare the heat output vs. flex watt.
any other ideas on tests just let me know what you want to see and ill see if i can do it. not sure when ill actually start the test but ill get to it....lol
adam jeffery

Warning!!! When you use any thermostat with flexwatt, please note that you will need to tape the reader under the substrate of your choice on the inside of the tub where the heat tape lays. I have always stuck the temp therm. in the middle cage with my snakes. Then one day I smelled burning plastic! The reader was on the cool side of the cage (just from opening and closing it) and so it was trying to heat up the cold side. I have some very nice thermostats and they were not cheap. So just please keep this in mind when you are plugging everything in. I just put it in the middle cage of my rack, tape it right under the substrate, on top of where the flexwatt meets under the tub. Since I have been doing that, no stinky smell and no little burn hole! Oh and make sure empty slots at least have empty totes in them. That can affect the thermostats temp. reading.

http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photo...CA_9509-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

I did a series of tests on the hydrofarm the probe accuracy is... poor at best. The silver thermometer (reading 26.9ºC <80.42ºF>) is a traceable very accurate thermocouple, basically it is correct. The hydrofarms are 83.8, 82.4, and 81.6. The best of the three is a degree high. these are the new and improved accuracy versions. What the older versions are like I can only imagine. The probe response is ok but the unit overshoots easily and takes 2 or 3 degrees to kick in and off.

I'd say it might be ok in a rack especially if the rack is in a controlled temperature room. It works best with indirect heat in a mostly regulated room. Not so great in cool rooms with direct heat on thin walled enclosures.

personally I'd not trust a rack of animals to anything but the very best available. 5-10 animals on a single unit, trusted to a 30 dollar seedling starter thermostat seems a poor decision to me.

I never recommend cheep thermostats. Period.

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Originally Posted by fangznthangz

Warning!!! When you use any thermostat with flexwatt, please note that you will need to tape the reader under the substrate of your choice on the inside of the tub where the heat tape lays. I have always stuck the temp therm. in the middle cage with my snakes. Then one day I smelled burning plastic! The reader was on the cool side of the cage (just from opening and closing it) and so it was trying to heat up the cold side. I have some very nice thermostats and they were not cheap. So just please keep this in mind when you are plugging everything in. I just put it in the middle cage of my rack, tape it right under the substrate, on top of where the flexwatt meets under the tub. Since I have been doing that, no stinky smell and no little burn hole! Oh and make sure empty slots at least have empty totes in them. That can affect the thermostats temp. reading.

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tape the probe to flexxwatt and buy a digital thermometer for the inside of the tub. Its safer and this will never happen to you. You will have to set your thermostat higher to get the desired temp in the tub but thats okay. Also never use tape in your snakes enclosure. Tape = serious injury for scaled critters. Even if its under the substrate - BP's like to burrow and can get hurt.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by fangznthangz

Warning!!! When you use any thermostat with flexwatt, please note that you will need to tape the reader under the substrate of your choice on the inside of the tub where the heat tape lays. I have always stuck the temp therm. in the middle cage with my snakes. Then one day I smelled burning plastic! The reader was on the cool side of the cage (just from opening and closing it) and so it was trying to heat up the cold side. I have some very nice thermostats and they were not cheap. So just please keep this in mind when you are plugging everything in. I just put it in the middle cage of my rack, tape it right under the substrate, on top of where the flexwatt meets under the tub. Since I have been doing that, no stinky smell and no little burn hole! Oh and make sure empty slots at least have empty totes in them. That can affect the thermostats temp. reading.

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the reader? are you talking about the probe? the probe should be directly on the flexwatt where the tub will not slide and knock off the probe. not inside your tub. don't try to control a tub temp with the probe. control the temp of your flexwatt. use a temp gun to see the hot spot temp of the tub.

edit: was responsing at the same time as the above post. I agree with decensored

Since you posted this thread twice I will post my response twice, haha.

I'm going to go against the grain here.

I use Ranco or Johnsons for the most part, I don't find the herpstats or helix thermostats worth the money. I have been using a number of different thermostats through out the almost 7 years of keeping snakes to find what works for me. I also use the A-life and Zoo-Med repti-temp thermostats. I bought the zoo-med as my first one 7 years ago. Today I use it to control my ambient temps on one of my racks. I have had zero issues with temperature control.

With all of the thermostats mentioned above I think it is more important to have a quality temp gun that you can check your hot and cool spots every other day if not daily. Every thermostat can malfunction no matter how much money you spend on it.

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Originally Posted by eel588

Since you posted this thread twice I will post my response twice, haha.

I'm going to go against the grain here.

I use Ranco or Johnsons for the most part, I don't find the herpstats or helix thermostats worth the money. I have been using a number of different thermostats through out the almost 7 years of keeping snakes to find what works for me. I also use the A-life and Zoo-Med repti-temp thermostats. I bought the zoo-med as my first one 7 years ago. Today I use it to control my ambient temps on one of my racks. I have had zero issues with temperature control.

With all of the thermostats mentioned above I think it is more important to have a quality temp gun that you can check your hot and cool spots every other day if not daily. Every thermostat can malfunction no matter how much money you spend on it.

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I agree with this 100%, but I feel the price of a helix or herpstat is well worth every penny with the investment that I have in my snakes. I also buy the high end dog food for my dog. my pets are well worth it.

I feed all of my animals the highest quality food I can, my cat gets feed Wellness indoor cat food. It costs me $21 for 5lbs compared to Purina for half that. I do my research. I do not feel I am degrading their environment what so ever by using the thermostats I use. Their temps are spot on, I know this by checking them daily. I rarely, almost never have to adjust. I enjoy this process of looking at each and every one of animals. Why would I change? It is all up to the individual. I can buy 2 or 3 Rancos for the price of a herpstat. I'd rather spend that money on nice racks and other female breeders.

It works for me, maybe not others.

I have a johnson control that you need to wiggle the wire to get it to work (cold solder joint) not a hard fix. I'm just not a big fan on the on-off thermostats. but the Zoo-Med repti-temp 500r, I had one go bad on me, never again. this is the one I'm mainly concerned with, read post with others who had problems with this one too. 7 years with no problems, you're one of the lucky ones. I've learned my lesson. I had reptiles well over 20 years. I hope you don't learn the hard way like me.

like you said any thermostat could fail. I'm planning of running 2 herpstats together. if one fails the other won't let the temps max out. one would be wired threw the other. and this will also be worth whatever the cost is to me.

The cheapest one that I recommend is a Ranco.

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Originally Posted by fangznthangz

Warning!!! When you use any thermostat with flexwatt, please note that you will need to tape the reader under the substrate of your choice on the inside of the tub where the heat tape lays.

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Uh, Warning! This is completely and totally wrong. Ask any profesional rack manufacturor and they will all tell you the same thing... the probe should be taped directly onto the flexwatt (heat tape) ONLY.

Why? In many racks if the flexwatt is allowed to get to full temperature for even a short period of time, It can melt / damage / destroy the rack.

Lets say one day during the winter your power cuts out. The room and rack temperature drops to 60 degrees. You have your probe in the tub and not on the flexwatt.

Power cuts back on and your thermostat turns the flexwatt on 100%. It is VERY possible that the flexwatt will be running at 100% long enough to melt / damage / destroy the rack before the inside of the tub gets to temperature.

The WORST place you can put the probe is inside the tub. What do you think will happen if the probe is damaged in some way by the snake? What if he somehow gets caught on it and loosens the connection while you are on vaction? What if he spills his entire fresh water bown on it causing it to fail as you head to work for the day? What if a rat you throw in there gets one bite on the cord in the 5 seconds it is in there prior to getting struck then you go to bed for the night having no way of knowing the probe isn't working any more?

You'll get differing opinions here as usual. The Hydrofarms work well for the price and is better than nothing at all. Know what your actual setpoint temp is and your good even with the +/- variation. Whether you choose expensive or cheap best have a backup in the system. Even the most expensive unit can fail. After all they are electronic...

A 3 degree variant is no big deal.

I tested a 3.5 foot section of Flexwatt - 3 inch, 6 watts per foot - and got up to 4 degrees variants both regulated by a thermostat and unregulated - plugged directly into the wall. Flexwatt temps vary along the same strip, so I am never surprised when people get different readings with thermostats - unless they are placing the probe on the exact same place for each reading.

Heating is not an exact science, and the snakes are going to be fine with a 3 degree variant.

I have used the Hydrofarm with success as well.

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Originally Posted by decensored

I never recommend cheep thermostats. Period.

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Second that. For the peace of mind and ease of use, spend the money and buy a quality unit. Helix isn't bad for quality, although the features are a bit annoying in terms of setting the temp. I have both a Helix and a Herpstat and would far and above recommend the Herpstat if you're going to spend the money. Just my two cents. Good luck, whatever you decide!

As stated nothing is fool proof.

my experience with thermostats both with snakes and in my professional life leads me to this.

this is about stable temps to me the first task it to get perfectly stable then you have control not the elements and if you decided to night drop you chose when and how much.

Rheostats work perfectly in a room that does not change temps at all. Perfectly stable ambient temps give perfectly stable rack temps. If the room changes the rack changes with it. The failure rate is very very small especially if it is set and left.

On/off types (all of them) generate very good temps when you do not have direct het ( the heater attached directly on the enclosure like commercial peal and stick UTHs) or the enclosure has great thermal mass (glass tank) The second thing that is needed is not too cool room conditions. In cool rooms (more than ten degrees off the set point) the probe being slower to respond often leads to over and under shoots and under the right (or exactly wrong) conditions that can be a 20 degree shift ten or more over or ten or more lower. The on off types do best in semi controlled rooms that are around 80º and don't get cooler than 75ºF if you are running a 90ºF set point. The failure rate is more than rheostats but still very small.

Proportional thermostats work in all conditions and don't really have many situations where they do not deliver the set point temp to the probe (if the probe is on the heat tamp it will not be the same temp in the tub as on the tape itself.) The limitations are the heat source if the set point is beyond the output of the heat tape no thermostat will get there. They have a higher failure rate but also have more safety circuits to shut down the unit in the case of a failure.

I like to use proportional units as they are simply more versatile tools, incubator down the road? I have it. Moving to a new place and the room is really draft no problem. You see my point. I can't tell you what your room conditions are but my room is draft and changes with the wind. I used to try to heat the whole room (500$ a month in power bill later) I needed 2 1000w heaters to get it to 80ºF Now I use local heat so I have cool side and hot side heaters and dual t-stats and a well insulated rack. Works for me. (and 30$ a month power...) In my case the herpstat pro paid for its self (and the 17" flexwatt and effort) in the first month. Again my experience.

Thermostats are odd tools and temperamental all of them. my home one generates huge unevenness heat come on it gets too hot heat goes off it gets too cool heat comes on...

I agree with the probe in a rack should be on the heat source directly. It makes temps a bit more unstable (room rooms make this much more complicated why most racks are in 80ºF rooms) but the constant opening and closing is more likely to stress wires and make cleaning more of a pain that racks already are. I find the rack harder to clean than any thing else. It is the only thing you have to lay on your back on the floor and bash your elbows and worrying about getting electrical connections wet while you do it. :rage: hate it. If I had the room it would be gone in a second.

Interior mounted probes are fine for enclosures where you are not always moving the wire around. In any thermostat system the probe MUST NEVER move it MUST be SECURE! I also always recommend with a rack especially a failsafe thermostat as any failure in that system can result in the death of all the animals in the rack. Failsafe thermostats will double the protection.

Racks systems are expensive power heating animals inside than and set up costs. They save space big time but that is about all. they spend power like crazy. If you cannot afford spending more than 40$ on a thermostat perhaps you might want to look at some other system to house animals? Unless you have a really warm room somewhere they really do need a room that is 77-82ºF year round. That is an expensive task depending on where and what kind of heat you have.

Nice run down, Kite. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I couldn't agree more about your statement regarding a cool room. Thermostats and Flexwatt were never intended to warm an enclosure that sits in a 65 degree room.

I have a Ranco and a Vivarium 300 both seem to work great in a 72f room and keep temp well. I like the vivarium better easier to use and setup but both are working great. When I move to a custome built enclosure for my snakes the Viv will be my primary tstat the ranco will be my backup just my :2cent: but i thought I would share the info
Robie

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Uh, Warning! This is completely and totally wrong. Ask any profesional rack manufacturor and they will all tell you the same thing... the probe should be taped directly onto the flexwatt (heat tape) ONLY.

Why? In many racks if the flexwatt is allowed to get to full temperature for even a short period of time, It can melt / damage / destroy the rack.

Lets say one day during the winter your power cuts out. The room and rack temperature drops to 60 degrees. You have your probe in the tub and not on the flexwatt.

Power cuts back on and your thermostat turns the flexwatt on 100%. It is VERY possible that the flexwatt will be running at 100% long enough to melt / damage / destroy the rack before the inside of the tub gets to temperature.

The WORST place you can put the probe is inside the tub. What do you think will happen if the probe is damaged in some way by the snake? What if he somehow gets caught on it and loosens the connection while you are on vaction? What if he spills his entire fresh water bown on it causing it to fail as you head to work for the day? What if a rat you throw in there gets one bite on the cord in the 5 seconds it is in there prior to getting struck then you go to bed for the night having no way of knowing the probe isn't working any more?

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I did call the manufacturor. They said they could send new tape but I would have to be charged for it? That it wasn't covered even though thats what is sent with the racks. Believe me, I was really concerned when I smelled the burned plastic. That is the first thing I did was call. So she said to tape the probe. Some people don't know especially when the manufacturor is the one that told them to do it. I agree about the power out/on but I don't work and that is probably what saved them in the first place and I would never ever put a live rat in their homing cage unsupervised......I had a rescue someone did that to and he had over 2/3foot of scarring from where a rat ate him. So alot of those things you are asking if I thought about, NO cause I don't do them.....

I've learned with any advice regarding accuracy for anything, I take Kite's over anyone's lol. Like everyone has said, it's a personal preference and what you're comfortable with. I do use a couple hydrofarms, but I also own a Johnsons and a Herpstat. The herpstat being my favorite and the one I'm most comfortable using, however the Johnsons is just as good for an on/off for less money. The hydrofarms are good for me while I save up money for better ones. A 3 degree difference for an on/off IMO is not a huge deal, since mine's set for 90 degrees inside the tub, 93 degrees or 87 degrees doesn't make a huge difference for me. However, I will be buying better thermostats to replace them in the future.

I'm not sure why this thread was started in morphs and genetics, so I've moved it to Husbandry.

I do want to make one comment. It is NEVER recommended to use tape INSIDE the enclosure where it can become stuck to your critter. Heat plus tape = loosened tape that sticks to your animal and tears their skin. NEVER use tape inside the enclosure - it just won't end well.

Ummm im confused. Am i reading this right? Put the probe directlly in the heat tape? Heat tape warms up to 115 degrees plus when it cycles on so it would never keep tubs at temps and constantly cutting on and off

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Ummm im confused. Am i reading this right? Put the probe directlly in the heat tape? Heat tape warms up to 115 degrees plus when it cycles on so it would never keep tubs at temps and constantly cutting on and off

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I had that question myself. I thought the probe went in the tub, but was secured to the outside of the tub. I have holes in my tubs right at the bottom where I put the probe through to rest right inside the tub, and then secure it to the outside of the tub with tape.

All my racks have the probe on the top underneath of the middle drawer in each rack. I use a router to make the channel and then cover it with clear packing tape. My stat always sits on 89 and every tub sits at 89 to 90 in the back of the tubs. I have never had nor seen 11 inch flexwatt burn or melt anything. Now if your using smaller flexwatt that has to work too hard on inadequate setups then i could see stuff happening.

herpestat is the cheapest id recommend ;)

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Ummm im confused. Am i reading this right? Put the probe directlly in the heat tape? Heat tape warms up to 115 degrees plus when it cycles on so it would never keep tubs at temps and constantly cutting on and off

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Not if you use a proportional thermostat, which controls the amount of power going to the tape to control the temp and doesn't turn off/on.

Besides, when you tape directly to the flexwatt, you're going to set your thermostat higher to account for the density of the tub and substrate to get to the desired temp inside the enclosure.

Whether you choose to measure the heat inside the temp by taping the probe inside the enclosure (not recommended under any circumstance) or you tape it directly to the heat tape, the amount of output will be the same to achieve the same temp on top of the substrate.

IE, if you were to temp gun the tape to see how hot it really is if you're a "thermostat probe inside the tub" person, you'll see it's the same temperature as it would be if you were a "thermostat on top of the flexwatt" person. Either way, the actual heat tape itself has to reach a certain set temp to effectively heat inside the enclosure.

There are two schools of thought on probe placement inside the enclosure with the animal or in direct contact with the heat. Interior placement is way more accurate. Exterior varies more with ambient temp variations.

I use both, as Robin says tape is unwise. I glue mine it MUST NOT MOVE no matter the placement.

The discussion with racks is different than everything else. My logic behind direct heat placement I use with a rack is easy.

safety over temp. I feel (my opinion here) Probes can be secured so that a snake simply cannot move then so ignoring that we come to cleaning. One tub is attached to the temperature control for the whole works. If you remove it to wash you either need to unplug the probe (if you can) and kill the heat to the rack while that is cleaned. Not too bad unless it is very slow. Or you could remove the probe every time. My probes are hard to remove as it is so very critical that it can't move that makes it difficult to remove too. Or you could just leave that tub empty all the time.

The second issue I have with this is if there is animal in that tub it needs to be checked everyday or so, and sliding out that tub and back in has a potential of breaking or damaging the probe cord some units have a fail safe that if the probe goes dead the unit shuts down ... no heat you then need to have a replacement probe fast. OR the unit will try to get the temperature correct by adding more heat but as the probe is not responding it can never get hot enough. It runs the potential to cook your collection.

The third option is to cut the bottom out of an old tub and fix the probe to that and then that to the heat and try to run a functional tub over top of it. My rack there is no way that would work as there is not enough clearance.

Normally I prefer interior probe placement (glued firmly in place) but with a rack the potential for damage to the probe and the issues surrounding cleaning over shadow the desire for easy spot on temps. At least in my way of thinking.

If there is a solution I missed please post it I would like a 4 better option but I can't think of one.

Maybe Dion or one of the others can make a wireless adaptor for the probes but to my knowledge no one does.

I type to slow...

All my racks have the probe on the top underneath of the middle drawer in each rack. I use a router to make the channel and then cover it with clear packing tape. My stat always sits on 89 and every tub sits at 89 to 90 in the back of the tubs. I have never had nor seen 11 inch flexwatt burn or melt anything. Now if your using smaller flexwatt that has to work too hard on inadequate setups then i could see stuff happening.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

All my racks have the probe on the top underneath of the middle drawer in each rack. I use a router to make the channel and then cover it with clear packing tape. My stat always sits on 89 and every tub sits at 89 to 90 in the back of the tubs. I have never had nor seen 11 inch flexwatt burn or melt anything. Now if your using smaller flexwatt that has to work too hard on inadequate setups then i could see stuff happening.

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Now I am confused didn't you were you not questioning why someone would place a probe in direct contact with the heat tape and not IN the tub???

Yes. It doesnt make sence why you would put the probe on the heat tape. Let me specify clearer. Maybe this makes it easier to understand cause i can see where the confusion is. My probes sit in a channel in the ceiling of the middle drawer. Therefore it is in the box on the ceiling. I dont use tops on my bins. This way i get an exact reading from in the tubs. I get the same temps all the way through the rack. Now obviouslly there is a couple degree flucuation as the thermostats cycles but not much and not for long. All my racks are 6 ft tall and i never hook more then one rack per thermostat. If i can figure out how to post picks on here ill show you what i am talking about

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Sorry just figured out how to load pics

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Originally Posted by snake lab

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looks like you're using back heat. my racks with back heat, the probe is tape right in front of the heat tape on the rack where the tub won't knock it off (between heat tape and tub, closer to the heat tape).
my racks with belly heat, the probe is directly on the flexwatt.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMAG0069.jpg

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Nice rack!

...wow, as a woman, it feels really weird saying that.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

The third option is to cut the bottom out of an old tub and fix the probe to that and then that to the heat and try to run a functional tub over top of it.

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This is the option that I use on all of my racks.

Well there is a fourth way! I didn't think about that type of placement with back heat. I don't use it myself (cold room) but that is a very viable option.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm not sure why this thread was started in morphs and genetics, so I've moved it to Husbandry.

I do want to make one comment. It is NEVER recommended to use tape INSIDE the enclosure where it can become stuck to your critter. Heat plus tape = loosened tape that sticks to your animal and tears their skin. NEVER use tape inside the enclosure - it just won't end well.

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I accidently did this. my computer lagged and it led me to the genetics. I had no idea until i posted it.