Banana males taking a 20K price drop!!??

So rumor has it Ozzy is offering his newly produced banana males for 30k a piece. I have been waiting for the first drop in the banana market to take place this year. I mean really, Brock is pumping out the males, plus Chun, John at albinos unlimited with multiple males and females including one male thats most likely a super and some kid in CA, I believe his name is Keo (?) , Micheal Powell and not to mention Brocks friends within his inner circle he off loaded males too early on, Brad Boa and others. On top of that NERD has a TON of females ( that produce males) and males that produce males!!! Not to mention everyone else who has them that we don’t know about. What about the male TSK produced? How many more males is that producing? Not to mention tri stripe bananas maybe even tri stripe banana males!! Now throw into this giant mix of males that most of these people dont like each other. Things can get ulgly pretty quick. Rumor has it there are so many males that these breeders don’t know what to do with them. I know a few have sold but theres not enough people with 50k to match the amount of males produced and most likely the same goes for females at 10k or so. Guess some one had to be the first to under cut the market. No wonder Ozzy is cutting the price down. Cant keep a market over inflated for ever, but how do you feel if your one of the guy who already paid 50k? They will most likely make their money back and then some( which is why you invest in the first place ) That is, unless Ozzy chops it another 40% or more next year.
:D:gj:

I think the guy that made the price drop is smart. no use sitting on animals you arent going to do anything with. and if people buy from you and you have great animals to sell you become the default go to guy for that morph. I say good for him for having the guts to do it, and it sucks that you just paid 50k for a snake. Should realize that a morph only stays at that price for and extremely short period of time these days.

and its a co-dom so that makes its value much more likely to sink fast and hard.

I don't think that the market was overinflated. When there is only one or a few of something and demand is high the price is going to be high, and the rarity justifies it. Once people begin breeding morph animals and they become more common the price naturally will go down. You can't keep a morph's price high when their number increases--the guy who dropped the price is a realist and understands that.

One day bananas will be right were the albinos and pieds are now. Less expensive, and I like that because it will give more people an opportunity to not only own these animals but to work with combining them with other genes. I could have never afforded to buy my pied when they first hit the market. I'm happy that they've come down enough that I can afford to enjoy owning her.

Prices ALWAYS drop at that magic point where there is enough animals produced to actually have a sales-vs-customers line. At that moment, the price drops dramatically. Everyone who was willing to pay $50K already has the animals they want.

It's the natural progression in pricing of new morphs. If you want in on the first tier, you buy the high price first animals available. If you're okay being a couple steps behind in breeding, you wait for the price drop.

Simple.

I wouldn't feel too bad for those investing in the high stakes snake business today. This isn't the early to mid-2000s where average Joes were mortgaging their houses to buy snakes. Pretty much everyone you mentioned knows how this market works. Prices won't remain high on any bp morphs.

This is classic supply and demand, not just snakes its everything

Maybe just a leetle price drop is all it needs to really make the morph take off. Of course many people don't make that much in a year so maybe not:rolleyes:

I agree with everyone else. It was gonna happen sooner or later. In 5 years they will be selling for around 1000 but thats just how it works. But by the time that happens there will be another morph out that will be worth 50k. The people that can afford to pay that and be the first to breed it do that beacuse in the first few years there gonna make a killing on those guys. And thats why they do it. They know that price wont last long but the first year they get them to breed they make there money back.

Plus getting a new morph on the markets lets them have the advantage of creating the next new morph out there.

If someone is breeding for profit, there are still plenty of opportunities. Multiple gene animals are going to be where breeders can make their future profits, and there are plenty of combos that have been made and many that haven't, so if anything the opportunites are better than for the person breeding single gene new morphs. A person could buy a banana male, breed it to a couple of pied females, and be making himself "banana pies" in 3-4 years and return a good profit on the investment. Banana clowns, desert bananas--I can't wait until someones makes this stuff, I really want to see it.

Only $30,000!? I better break open the piggy bank.

Agreed with all others have said. Supply and demand. I cant wait to see more hot morphs crossed into the banana project. The glass isnt half empty, its half full:gj:

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Originally Posted by BPologist

So rumor has it Ozzy is offering his newly produced banana males for 30k a piece. I have been waiting for the first drop in the banana market to take place this year. I mean really, Brock is pumping out the males, plus Chun, John at albinos unlimited with multiple males and females including one male thats most likely a super and some kid in CA, I believe his name is Keo (?) , Micheal Powell and not to mention Brocks friends within his inner circle he off loaded males too early on, Brad Boa and others. On top of that NERD has a TON of females ( that produce males) and males that produce males!!! Not to mention everyone else who has them that we don’t know about. What about the male TSK produced? How many more males is that producing? Not to mention tri stripe bananas maybe even tri stripe banana males!! Now throw into this giant mix of males that most of these people dont like each other. Things can get ulgly pretty quick. Rumor has it there are so many males that these breeders don’t know what to do with them. I know a few have sold but theres not enough people with 50k to match the amount of males produced and most likely the same goes for females at 10k or so. Guess some one had to be the first to under cut the market. No wonder Ozzy is cutting the price down. Cant keep a market over inflated for ever, but how do you feel if your one of the guy who already paid 50k? They will most likely make their money back and then some( which is why you invest in the first place ) That is, unless Ozzy chops it another 40% or more next year.
:D:gj:

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Don't we all love some good rumors :rolleyes:

Seeing this first post I can't wait to see what the second will be about.........more rumors maybe. :D:gj:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Don't we all love some good rumors :rolleyes:

Seeing this first post I can't wait to see what the second will be about.........more rumors maybe. :D:gj:

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Haha!

But seriously, they have to drop sooner or later. Supply and demand, like everyone already said. And it's a dominant trait, so even if no males are being produced from males or what have you, sooner or later even the males will sell for $20k, then $10k, and on down to pastel land.

I wonder if banana will play nice with pied? You just KNOW somebody's already working on it.

Now i'm craving banana pie... dang y'all...

The combos are where people are now figuring out they can make more high dollar morphs. Combos are proving to be almost more killer than the originals can hope to be. That means the second tier people are also making great money(the ones buying those $50K animals).

I figure, more power to them. Would I love to discover something new and cool? Absolutely! Am I going to say there's some big conspiracy to trample 'the little guys' just because I can't afford a $50K snake? No, I'm not. I'll happily watch the pictures of the originals and combos until something I want comes down in price enough for me to afford the makings of it. I'll be five years behind the guys making history(morph history anyway), but I don't mind.

Can't say it any better Deborah.

Banana pies sound really great though :D

I really think for anything that is a co-dom morph that has a start price that high is just insane. not sure why or how people ask for/pay that much. and normally it seems to be from the top breeders who trade with one another because they have the $$ to do it or they trade animals. more of a redistribution of funds of the ball python elite.

I am and always have been in the belief that our hobby and the color morphs we make will never have a true value until it is something in a crummy pet store, or at the very least an entry level morph. I say this because it is a constant cycle of reinvesting. Now there are small gains here and there, but for the most part it isnt a high profit industry for "the little guy" which is why i never understood these outrageous prices for a new morph. It keeps them out of reach for the people who you ultimately want to own them.

Also dont understand it because, IT IS A CO-DOM! i mean in 4-5 years it should be about 1-2k range at best. and they seem to mainly make males, which puts the rate of growth much much higher.

kind of a rant but just my thoughts.

It's a high price because a buyer will get a immediate pay-off. If it were recessive, the buyer would have to either buy both sexes, or wait addition seasons to breed hets, grow hets and breed them back in order to get the morph.

So anything that makes things happen faster = higher price. Same as buying an adult morph vs a hatchling morph. You pay more for a decrease in the total time for 'payout' or producing your own morph babies.

Conversely, a recessive morph cost the originating person a lot more to create, so their prices can also be high.

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Originally Posted by eel588

Only $30,000!? I better break open the piggy bank.

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LOL:rofl:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

It's a high price because a buyer will get a immediate pay-off. If it were recessive, the buyer would have to either buy both sexes, or wait addition seasons to breed hets, grow hets and breed them back in order to get the morph.

So anything that makes things happen faster = higher price. Same as buying an adult morph vs a hatchling morph. You pay more for a decrease in the total time for 'payout' or producing your own morph babies.

Conversely, a recessive morph cost the originating person a lot more to create, so their prices can also be high.

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thats a really good point. didnt think of that. counter point awarded

Give it time, When bananas are produced year after year from these guys that have them, and cant sell them at 30k price will continue ot drop so their not over loaded.


What happens to most who over produce something and can't move them.. You drop your price till you find the right price and it sells. And those who buy and breed them will sell for the price they bought it for or lower to sell it. Which in end creates the domino effect of killing the price over time sooner than some think.

Its like you buy a banana for 30k, then produce a few and cant get 30k for them so you drop to 25k. Someone buys for 25k and does the same thing over and over till they bottom out. Happens to everything new till they hit rock bottom

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I really think for anything that is a co-dom morph that has a start price that high is just insane. not sure why or how people ask for/pay that much. and normally it seems to be from the top breeders who trade with one another because they have the $$ to do it or they trade animals. more of a redistribution of funds of the ball python elite.

I am and always have been in the belief that our hobby and the color morphs we make will never have a true value until it is something in a crummy pet store, or at the very least an entry level morph. I say this because it is a constant cycle of reinvesting. Now there are small gains here and there, but for the most part it isnt a high profit industry for "the little guy" which is why i never understood these outrageous prices for a new morph. It keeps them out of reach for the people who you ultimately want to own them.

Also dont understand it because, IT IS A CO-DOM! i mean in 4-5 years it should be about 1-2k range at best. and they seem to mainly make males, which puts the rate of growth much much higher.

kind of a rant but just my thoughts.

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What you don't understand is supply and demand. Demand is high, Supply is low, therefore higher price. You increase the price to lower the demand and your trying to hit the point where supply = demand.

Then you hit a point where the demand doesn't meet the current price, so then it drops. hence it going from 50k-30k. Look at computer parts, cars, or just about anything, same thing.

also the morph is producing more females than males

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

What you don't understand is supply and demand. Demand is high, Supply is low, therefore higher price. You increase the price to lower the demand and your trying to hit the point where supply = demand.

Then you hit a point where the demand doesn't meet the current price, so then it drops. hence it going from 50k-30k. Look at computer parts, cars, or just about anything, same thing.

also the morph is producing more females than males

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no, i completely understand supply and demand. I just fail to see a demand from people with such a huge price tag, other than the elite top breeders. who are constantly shuffling high end stock between one another.

They dont start making lots of money until they produce higher numbers of the morph and it gets to the bottom tier of BP owners. i would bet that if most people on here had 50k they wouldnt invest it into a banana BP because this is not our business and livelihood. and if i am wrong and they would, perhaps I enjoy it as a smaller scale hobby.

ohh and i had heard rumors that it produces mainly males. I can easily be wrong with that.

I've seen females under the $20K mark for a long time so it's only natural that males would follow suit once enough have been produced.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Don't we all love some good rumors :rolleyes:

Seeing this first post I can't wait to see what the second will be about.........more rumors maybe. :D:gj:

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I got five bucks that the second post is about the Sahara, or the Mojave or the Namib, or the Gobi or some other...............



.............desert.

Notice how this same exact post has also shown up as a first post on several other forums?

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Originally Posted by tcutting

They dont start making lots of money until they produce higher numbers of the morph and it gets to the bottom tier of BP owners. i would bet that if most people on here had 50k they wouldnt invest it into a banana BP because this is not our business and livelihood. and if i am wrong and they would, perhaps I enjoy it as a smaller scale hobby.
.

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I'm not sure how you believe that marketing 500 snakes at $1000 each is somehow going to make a breeder more money than 10 snakes at $50K each?

To make that 500 snakes, a breeder has to have several females(fed and housed and heated year-round) and several males(fed and housed and heated year-round). Then he's got to advertise and market and network to find 500 people willing to buy his particular morph. In the meantime, he's got to house, feed and heat all 500 babies he's got for sale.

To compare...
500 snakes at $1K each = 50 females(10 perfect eggs each) and at LEAST 5 males(breeding 10 females each) and added time to house/market all 500 babies.

10 snakes at $50K = 1 female(10 perfect eggs) and 1 male and the time to house and market 10 much-more-rare babies.

I know which method I'd prefer to use to net myself $500K. Granted, he'd have a ton of females that would continue to breed... but once you've hit a certain saturation, all your customers are producing and you have to work even HARDER to market your babies among all the other people with them, and you're stuck with 55 snakes who's genetics will not suddenly change to be some new morph. It doesn't continue to go up. It starts slipping downhil rapidly, which is why many breeders immediately begin making combos now.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I'm not sure how you believe that marketing 500 snakes at $1000 each is somehow going to make a breeder more money than 10 snakes at $50K each?

To make that 500 snakes, a breeder has to have several females(fed and housed and heated year-round) and several males(fed and housed and heated year-round). Then he's got to advertise and market and network to find 500 people willing to buy his particular morph. In the meantime, he's got to house, feed and heat all 500 babies he's got for sale.

To compare...
500 snakes at $1K each = 50 females(10 perfect eggs each) and at LEAST 5 males(breeding 10 females each) and added time to house/market all 500 babies.

10 snakes at $50K = 1 female(10 perfect eggs) and 1 male and the time to house and market 10 much-more-rare babies.

I know which method I'd prefer to use to net myself $500K. Granted, he'd have a ton of females that would continue to breed... but once you've hit a certain saturation, all your customers are producing and you have to work even HARDER to market your babies among all the other people with them, and you're stuck with 55 snakes who's genetics will not suddenly change to be some new morph. It doesn't continue to go up. It starts slipping downhil rapidly, which is why many breeders immediately begin making combos now.

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Its not that it will make them more, they tend not to sell that many when they are at that price point.

a few things, anytime i have seen one of these super high priced morphs for sale, they are only selling 1 maybe 2. i havent seen them sell more then that in a shot(not that it doesnt happen but it is rare to see more then that) because a lot of the time they hold them back. now if you were able to make 10 of said morph from a single female and a single male then sure that can make you a ton of money fast but you have to be the first one to do it and 10 perfect eggs of which all are the new base morph isnt always gonna happen.

Also when they do sell them at that price most of the time its to other top breeders and there is trades/wheeling and dealing going on of animals for the value. since its normally the same 5-10 people shuffling around these top snakes at some point you need to inject other funds back into the market. Otherwise all you are doing is shuffling the same money around.

So for it to work, you need to be the first one to have them, you need to be the first one to make them, and depending on the morph your investment could set you back 70k+ per snake and you will have to sell 3 or more of the morph at the same price you bought them at. Thats tough to do. not impossible but tough. Its a big risk to buy a morph at that price point because when they drop in price its dramatic and harder to make up the original investment cost.

And i guess i was looking at it from an overall market perspective. You will need new cash coming into it at some point and we are that some point in most cases. Thats the only way for it to be a healthy sustainable market.

The only guy i have seen selling a morph at a high price in any large numbers to make that type of profit is nerd and coral glows. now he is making a load of cash on those and is really i think one of a very few doing it.

and just so that I am clear. i dont disagree with you at all. Its just that I havent seen that really happen much. and perhaps that is because I havent been as up on the markets for the last 5-6 years until recent.

But how exactly are you "seeing" how many are being sold? If you see one sold, then it's likely more have been sold you're never going to know about.

And I know you're not going to get 10 perfect eggs, that was for the numbers. No one is going to have 50 of one morph females to breed either, right? It was to show the same number in a perfect world to get the same amount.

And even if it's selling 2 at a super high price, vs 20 at a much lower price, it's still the same overall in the math. Less work, less maintanence and marketing.

Not all the super high prices will be only from the "super-breeders" passing animals back and forth. There's a lot of animals that surprisingly will be shipped overseas or some small hobby person who must have THAT animal and has the disposable income(or something to trade). And I do count trades same as cash as far as value. It doesn't matter if it's $10K in cash, other snakes, or a restored vintage car. It's still the value equivalent.

There's always another side in a discussion. Just proposing some of the others in this one.

I say who cares? Buying animals to make money is a gamble. Some gamble big others small. Unless your the one putting down the money what's the point of chatting up this "rumor?" Even then I'm not sure why things going down in value is a big deal? Buy a new car and drive it off the lot and it's worth less then "new" at the dealership. Lord knows many bought houses as an "investment" in the good life only to watch that fall apart. My point is when you put that money down it's up to you to know what its for and where its going. Don't like the risk, hype, hustle, color or pattern? Then take your money elsewhere simple as that. Otherwise you risk taking your lumps with the reward. That's just how it goes. But who knows if any of its true? And unless your throwing down those greenbacks yourself then it really doesn't mean a thing. So BPologist are you looking at buying in on one? Or hitting a hornet's nest to see what happens?

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Originally Posted by BPologist

So rumor has it Ozzy is offering his newly produced banana males for 30k a piece. I have been waiting for the first drop in the banana market to take place this year. I mean really, Brock is pumping out the males, plus Chun, John at albinos unlimited with multiple males and females including one male thats most likely a super and some kid in CA, I believe his name is Keo (?) , Micheal Powell and not to mention Brocks friends within his inner circle he off loaded males too early on, Brad Boa and others. On top of that NERD has a TON of females ( that produce males) and males that produce males!!! Not to mention everyone else who has them that we don’t know about. What about the male TSK produced? How many more males is that producing? Not to mention tri stripe bananas maybe even tri stripe banana males!! Now throw into this giant mix of males that most of these people dont like each other. Things can get ulgly pretty quick. Rumor has it there are so many males that these breeders don’t know what to do with them. I know a few have sold but theres not enough people with 50k to match the amount of males produced and most likely the same goes for females at 10k or so. Guess some one had to be the first to under cut the market. No wonder Ozzy is cutting the price down. Cant keep a market over inflated for ever, but how do you feel if your one of the guy who already paid 50k? They will most likely make their money back and then some( which is why you invest in the first place ) That is, unless Ozzy chops it another 40% or more next year.
:D:gj:

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Originally Posted by joshm

I say who cares? Buying animals to make money is a gamble. Some gamble big others small. Unless your the one putting down the money what's the point of chatting up this "rumor?" Even then I'm not sure why things going down in value is a big deal? Buy a new car and drive it off the lot and it's worth less then "new" at the dealership. Lord knows many bought houses as an "investment" in the good life only to watch that fall apart. My point is when you put that money down it's up to you to know what its for and where its going. Don't like the risk, hype, hustle, color or pattern? Then take your money elsewhere simple as that. Otherwise you risk taking your lumps with the reward. That's just how it goes. But who knows if any of its true? And unless your throwing down those greenbacks yourself then it really doesn't mean a thing. So BPologist are you looking at buying in on one? Or hitting a hornet's nest to see what happens?

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BEST post on the topic so far!

Anyone with $50k or $30k or $5k to "invest" in an animal better be fully aware of the risks and probable outcomes inherent in such a venture. And if you're not, then I have a really hard time feeling sorry for someone willing to blow that kind of money on chance. It's a high stakes gamble...and the house is still more likely to win than you are.

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...Or hitting a hornet's nest to see what happens?

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Seems most likely to me. Unfortunately for "BPologist" though...other than some economic lessons, the general consensus on the topic seems to be, "Yeah, so???" :P 'Twas an empty hornet's nest.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

But how exactly are you "seeing" how many are being sold? If you see one sold, then it's likely more have been sold you're never going to know about.

And I know you're not going to get 10 perfect eggs, that was for the numbers. No one is going to have 50 of one morph females to breed either, right? It was to show the same number in a perfect world to get the same amount.

And even if it's selling 2 at a super high price, vs 20 at a much lower price, it's still the same overall in the math. Less work, less maintanence and marketing.

Not all the super high prices will be only from the "super-breeders" passing animals back and forth. There's a lot of animals that surprisingly will be shipped overseas or some small hobby person who must have THAT animal and has the disposable income(or something to trade). And I do count trades same as cash as far as value. It doesn't matter if it's $10K in cash, other snakes, or a restored vintage car. It's still the value equivalent.

There's always another side in a discussion. Just proposing some of the others in this one.

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no i am not discounting what you said it was indeed a very good point. i Suppose because i cant justify spending more then 2k on a snake the over the top morphs and idea of making that money back seems a bit far fetched to me.

and what i see is based on what is at shows, online listings, etc. I know there is a ton of behind the scenes things that also take place.

I wonder if people will start calling him a market crasher or scum like they do when anyone else undercuts them? Maybe they will say stuff like, you get what you pay for, or more expensive morphs are always better looking. (Which is not at all true.) :rofl:

If a breeder sells an animal in their possession its really not anyone elses business whether the breeder chooses to sell the animal for 10.00 or 10,000. It's their animal and they have the right. Its no different than when someone pays 2k for a mutation and I purchase the same mutation from a friend at pennies on the dollar, if that, compared to others paying full market price, its just not advertised.

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but Oz himself posted on a different forum that the rumor that he sold a banana male for $30k is entirely false. He actually sold him for $25k cash and $42k trade (so $67k total).

Yes, people pay these prices, and they line up to do so too. I think it's awesome. We have a snake that people will line up to pay more than $50k for, even in this economy. That means the market is still strong.

Go bananas! :banana:

Oh, and something else I really don't understand. So what if Oz sells his banana for $30k? That's great for whoever buys it. But that doesn't mean everyone else who has banana males has to sell them for $30k! Why does everyone think that as soon as one person drops the price, everyone else does too? That's absurd.

Let's say Oz sells his males at $30k each. Okay, Keven still has a male for $65k. Does he have to drop his price? No. Three people get lucky with a low price, but everyone else has to pay the premium if they want one. Heck, if I got that deal and produced more bananas next year, I'd ask market price when I have them available, even if that's more than what I paid.

You may say "well, I saw some going for $30k, so I refuse to pay more than that now." Okay, good for you. Doesn't mean the next guy will think the same way. I think the problem is that the sellers panic. They see the lower price and think that if they don't drop their price they won't sell. That's completely not true. Those who want in the project will pay. They may curse their luck at not getting the really good deal, but they'll do so while handing you their money.

The above was hypothetical. Oz is NOT selling his males for anywhere close to $30k

Even if it's true, this price is due to drop by 50%, and certainly not a surprise.

I'm just waiting for when Toffee prices finally settle this year.. should be a ridiculous plunge.

it comes down to supply, demand, and what people VALUE it at. even if supply is low demand is high if no one sees a 30-60k value for the item it wont sell. so If someone buys them for a price they must have seen a value for that animal at that price whatever it maybe. and thats where opinion comes in.

what things are worth to an individual really helps drive up or down prices of morphs.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I got five bucks that the second post is about the Sahara, or the Mojave or the Namib, or the Gobi or some other...............



.............desert.

Notice how this same exact post has also shown up as a first post on several other forums?

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got banned from one forum and never came back to this one....

I didnt read every post so i apoligize if this has been said but has anyone considered hes not crashing the market but simply trying to create a market? I mean how many people do you think are out there buying snakes for 30k plus? Just cause someone puts a value out there doesnt mean they are selling any thetefore no market exists. But by putting a value of say 30k on a snake makes a market for the animals it takes to create the 30k animal. For example, albino pieds. I have seen prices over 20k but i dont know of anyone selling any for that price but they are in fact selling the double hets like crazy cause people buying them want to make 20k animals. My point is whats the point of advertising an animal at a price that noone is buying them? Makes me think hes trying to set a market not crash it

Woah woah woah, are you telling me you paid $30,000 for a morph!?!?!?!!? I love BPs but I don't think I'd ever pay that much for one, normal ones are pretty enough

If your asking if ive spent 30k on a morph the answer is no way. The most i ever spent on a single animal was a male spider in 2002 for 14k which was a grwat deal considering they were averaging 18k for males back then. Now i made my money back and then some the following year. Then the crash happened. The market got flooded and the prices dropped like crazy by 2005. Now lets look at this in the big picture. As long as people are putting prices tags in the 20 to 40k price range it brings more intrest into the ball python industry. Therefore everyone benefits cause the more people that come into the industry the more markets stay stable from the low end to the mid range to the high end. Most people that get into the breeding and selling aspect of ball pythons start of small and grow a collection so these high prices help everyone. This trend brought alot of the boa guys over to the dark side as well as the high end retic guys.

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Originally Posted by iHAZreptiles

Woah woah woah, are you telling me you paid $30,000 for a morph!?!?!?!!? I love BPs but I don't think I'd ever pay that much for one, normal ones are pretty enough

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I'm sure the person buying the snake isn't buying it for their collection. They are most likely buying it to breed and make more. Buying expensive, rare morphs is the best way to make good money in this business. In most businesses, you have to invest in order to make money.

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Originally Posted by CapeFearConstrictors

Oh, and something else I really don't understand. So what if Oz sells his banana for $30k? That's great for whoever buys it. But that doesn't mean everyone else who has banana males has to sell them for $30k! Why does everyone think that as soon as one person drops the price, everyone else does too? That's absurd.

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Then why does so many people call MKR and Bigdaddy Wholesaler market crashers?

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Then why does so many people call MKR and Bigdaddy Wholesaler market crashers?

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Because they didn't just sell ONE snake at a lower price than everyone else was selling for. One snake isn't going to change the face of the market anytime soon, even if he'd given it away for free. MKR and Bigdaddy and the like flooded the market with high dollar morphs at much lower prices. So, not only did they undercut the current market for that year, they also created a ripple effect on the following years' markets by having so many "cheap" morphs out there breeding. They weren't doing this with snakes worth tens of thousands of dollars though....just a grand or two. It's just a different scenario all the way around.

And what's really ironic is that the whole basis for this thread is a false rumor to begin with. He didn't sell the snake for $30k. He got something like $42k plus another $25k in trade for a total value of $67k. Hardly a market crasher. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Because they didn't just sell ONE snake at a lower price than everyone else was selling for. One snake isn't going to change the face of the market anytime soon, even if he'd given it away for free. MKR and Bigdaddy and the like flooded the market with high dollar morphs at much lower prices. So, not only did they undercut the current market for that year, they also created a ripple effect on the following years' markets by having so many "cheap" morphs out there breeding. They weren't doing this with snakes worth tens of thousands of dollars though....just a grand or two. It's just a different scenario all the way around.

And what's really ironic is that the whole basis for this thread is a false rumor to begin with. He didn't sell the snake for $30k. He got something like $42k plus another $25k in trade for a total value of $67k. Hardly a market crasher. :rolleyes:

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I agree with you, but the poster that I quoted said that if one person drops their prices then not everyone has to, but that is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

I agree with you, but the poster that I quoted said that if one person drops their prices then not everyone has to, but that is not the case.

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Why is that not the case? If one person drops their price on a whole bunch of snakes, then that might be the case....but to drop price on one? That just means one person gets a lucky deal. The rest of the crowd that wants (and has the money to spend on) a banana this year still have to pay whatever the sellers are asking. If there are no other "$30k" bananas on the market, then they'll pay the $50k because that's what they would have paid anyhow, no matter how much the first guy charged for his.

If all the rest of the sellers follow suit based on ONE guy selling ONE snake....then that's their own foolishness and not his fault that they didn't think it through.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Why is that not the case? If one person drops their price on a whole bunch of snakes, then that might be the case....but to drop price on one? That just means one person gets a lucky deal. The rest of the crowd that wants (and has the money to spend on) a banana this year still have to pay whatever the sellers are asking. If there are no other "$30k" bananas on the market, then they'll pay the $50k because that's what they would have paid anyhow, no matter how much the first guy charged for his.

If all the rest of the sellers follow suit based on ONE guy selling ONE snake....then that's their own foolishness and not his fault that they didn't think it through.

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You are right, but the poster that I quoted did not say just one snake, he said, "Why does everyone think that as soon as one person drops the price, everyone else does too? That's absurd." I took that to mean that if one person drops the price of their animals that no one else has to follow suit. IMO, that is not the case. If people see someone selling an animal for a lot less, then they are less willing to pay premium price for the same type of animal.

Also, some ball males can breed within the first year. Therefore, if so someone does drop their price, then the buyers can buy males and breed them to as many females as possible to mass produce them that same year. The could then sell them for lower prices the following year.

Let's say 10 people have 2 banana males each to sell this year. One person decides to sell theirs for $30k because they're nervous and want to get a quick sale. Their two males sell very quickly. There are now 18 banana males available. Why would the other sellers need to drop their price? The lowballer is now out of stock. Anyone wanting to get into the project now has to pay the asking price of one of the other 9 breeders.

Now, the following year things might be different. The two people who bought those $30k males might have their own males to sell. If they are smart, they will charge a premium for them and make a fortune.

I'll tell you right now, if I were able to get my hands on a banana male for $30k, and the typical asking price next year is $50k, you can be sure that my asking price will be right up there with the rest of them. Now, if they stop moving at that price, then the asking price should be lowered, but isn't the idea to get the most return on your investment?

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Originally Posted by CapeFearConstrictors

Let's say 10 people have 2 banana males each to sell this year. One person decides to sell theirs for $30k because they're nervous and want to get a quick sale. Their two males sell very quickly. There are now 18 banana males available. Why would the other sellers need to drop their price? The lowballer is now out of stock. Anyone wanting to get into the project now has to pay the asking price of one of the other 9 breeders.

Now, the following year things might be different. The two people who bought those $30k males might have their own males to sell. If they are smart, they will charge a premium for them and make a fortune.

I'll tell you right now, if I were able to get my hands on a banana male for $30k, and the typical asking price next year is $50k, you can be sure that my asking price will be right up there with the rest of them. Now, if they stop moving at that price, then the asking price should be lowered, but isn't the idea to get the most return on your investment?

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I see what you are saying, but look at it this way. Do you really think that there are another 18 people who are willing to pay $50K for each banana? If not, then the sellers will either have to sit on their animals or sell for a lower price. Since their are 9 other sellers, they will need to compete, and sell for less. Since people has already seen them selling for $30K, then they may not be willing to pay a premium if they think they are able to get it lower.

Also, if the two people who bought the two banana males breed them the same year to multiple females, then they will have an abundance of them the next season. Say they make ten bananas each from the two males, now there are twenty more bananas on the market plus all of their competitors, so everyone has to drop their price.

I have seen this same thing happen time and time again in the ball python market.

Ozzy sold his banana male pretty quickly. That tells me (along with other rumors I've heard) that these are a hot selling item when offered for sale. There's a lot of buying that goes on behind the scenes that nobody talks about. If there were 18 male bananas available for sale right now for $50k, I bet they'd all be sold by the end of the year.

Granted, with the news about males that create males, the price is going to drop over the next few years because of the abundance of males, but they won't be in the sub $10k range for a long time, I'd bet. I actually see the prices of these 2nd and 3rd generation males going UP from where they currently are. If males that throw mostly females sell for $67k this year, how much would a male that gives you mostly males go for?

But yes, as there are more males available, the prices will inevitably drop. However, that doesn't mean it has to crash. Just because one person sells at a lower price doesn't mean everyone has to. That would be like all furniture stores lowering their prices because one showroom has a going out of business sale selling things at cost. Once the low baller is out of stock, people will pay the market price. They don't have any other choice.