Assist feeding question

My older bp has spoiled me; she's always been a great eater, striking as soon as I start the F/T dangle.

My two little hatchlings, which came from an expo and were VERY small, need to be assist fed. To those of you who have assist fed hatchlings before, how long have you had to assist feed before they learned the strike on their own? I just want to make sure we're generally on track.

Not to hijack but if i can add a question.. Last time i tried assis feeding mine he kept spitting it out. How do u get past this? He wont take it.

I get it just into the beginning of their throats so that if they clamp down, their teeth hook it. So far, so good, lol.

To the OP

I am curious what is the setup for those two hatchlings and were they bought as animal that were assisted?

The key with hatchlings is security, warmth and stimulation from the prey.

If you don't already have them individually in a 6 quarts tub with some aspen as bedding (this is very important) , have temps of 88-90 on the warm side, and offer live hopper mice.

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Not to hijack but if i can add a question.. Last time i tried assis feeding mine he kept spitting it out. How do u get past this? He wont take it.

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You need to put it far enough in the mouth if it still manages to spit it out you will need to force feed and not assist.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I am curious what is the setup for those two hatchlings and were they bought as animal that were assisted?

The key with hatchlings is security, warmth and stimulation from the prey.

If you don't already have them individually in a 6 quarts tub with some aspen as bedding (this is very important) , have temps of 88-90 on the warm side, and offer live hopper mice.

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Each is set up in one of my quarantine tanks which are 10 gallon tanks with a UTH, and hides on both sides. I've been using paper towels; I do have some aspen but I thought they couldn't eat while in aspen (am I wrong?). Temps have been good and stable.

When I picked them up, I specifically asked if they were being fed f/t, because I haven't found anything in my area that sells live feeders (there's a store about 45 minutes away). The breeder said they were doing well on f/t. In retrospect, I'm thinking that wasn't accurate and he was just pushing to make a sale :(. They were both VERY light weight when I brought them home and have gained steadily since I've had them.

At any rate, I've tried a couple of different tactics. I prefer to feed in a separate tub (I know it's not necessary, but it's a habit I got into with my older girl), but I've tried feeding in their tank too. I've tried wiggling, gentle bumping on the nose, just leaving it, but neither hatchling will strike. As soon as it hits their mouths, both are great about getting it down (curling around it, etc.).

Any suggestions? My last resort may be to make the 45 minute trip to get live feeders.

I personally never had a young snake accept anything other than live.
The one that I did have to assist feed realized how good food was after that ;)

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Originally Posted by rperry03

I personally never had a young snake accept anything other than live.
The one that I did have to assist feed realized how good food was after that ;)

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How far into south jersey are you? Where do you get your feeders? I'm wondering if maybe there's a place I don't know about.

I saw the setup and I can tell you it is part of your issue, they need extra security that your current setup does not offer the 6 quarts tub will solve that and aspen bedding is part of the solution as well.

You also need to feed them in their enclosure, BP can be very prone to stress so much so that putting them in an enclosure to feed them can and will lead to refusal if the animal is already inconsistent.

Live feeding is very important at this point they are not eating for you and live is what will stimulate them, on they eat with consistency you can switch them but at this point live is needed.

Assisting an animal is VERY stressful and can lead to stress which in turn can lead to other various issue.

All it takes in you case are a few changes.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I saw the setup and I can tell you it is part of your issue, they need extra security that your current setup does not offer the 6 quarts tub will solve that and aspen bedding is part of the solution as well.

You also need to feed them in their enclosure, BP can be very prone to stress so much so that putting them in an enclosure to feed them can and will lead to refusal if the animal is already inconsistent.

Live feeding is very important at this point they are not eating for you and live is what will stimulate them, on they eat with consistency you can switch them but at this point live is needed.

Assisting an animal is VERY stressful and can lead to stress which in turn can lead to other various issue.

All it takes in you case are a few changes.

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Okay, I'll give it a whirl. I have some 6 qt tubs, so I'll set them up. Thanks for all the advice!

Forgot to ask - they're okay eating in aspen? I thought that wasn't a good idea.

X2 on the setup needs to be changed. You need at least one more hide and aspen or some other substrate the can burrow in is a must. I am not a fan of tubs like to see my snakes but for those little guys you could put a tub in the tanks untill the get a little more regular with thier feeding. Remember baby snakes are food for biger snakes so security is very very important. I would also cover 3 sides of your aquarium at least until you move to a 20-40 gal at that point you have enuff room to put driftwood and fake plants to offer the security you snake will need. Your big girl is well established and comfortable where she is but the breeder I am sure kept your little ones in tubs. I have had luck after several feedings 3-5 switching to F/T no problem but only after the security/husbandry was taken care of. I hope this helps and love the look of youe littel guys:D
Robie

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

Forgot to ask - they're okay eating in aspen? I thought that wasn't a good idea.

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It will be fine :gj:

Last question (I swear!) - after the security issue is taken care of, do you think I should stick with the f/t ? Or try switching to live, then back to f/t?

I would stick to F/T if that is what you want to feed them. Make sure the food is warm enuff to register as prey about 100f thermal gun is a must here but it should feel warm to the touch. And do the zombie dance and should work great.
Robie

Thank you all so much. It didn't even dawn on me that it may be a security issue. I just thought they were super small/young. I'll follow up and let you know how it works!

So here's what happened. Changed the set-ups and moved from tanks to tubs. Humidity and temps are steady. After a few days to settle in, today was chow time. And here's how we did...

My little boy had his first strike! It was a little off center and got my tongs, but he did it nonethelesss.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...7/img_5640.jpg

Yep, that's his mouth around the tongs. Gently got him off, wiggled the mouse again, and he had his first successful strike!

But as for my little girl, she was interested but didn't strike. :tears: Had to do an assist feed. But she scarfed it down as soon as her mouth opened!

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...7/img_5643.jpg

So we're making progress, slowly but surely. Thanks everyone!

Glad to hear it worked out for you :gj:

Wow they are small. Glad to hear the boy is up and running ... girl should not be too far behind, good luck!

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Wow they are small. Glad to hear the boy is up and running ... girl should not be too far behind, good luck!

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They were super tiny when we got them. They're both up 10g in three weeks!

10g in three weeks isn't much, but as long as they are gaining !

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

Last question (I swear!) - after the security issue is taken care of, do you think I should stick with the f/t ? Or try switching to live, then back to f/t?

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If your BP is eating F/T than keep it on that unless of course you wish to feed live.

Switching back and forth is not recommended simply because there is always a risk that the animal won't switch back.

Since the female did not go for it I would have her on live until she eats with consistency.

Also even if she refuses next time I would skip assisting her and give her more time, assisting is stressful.

she was a rat eater when you got her correct?

GLad to see you got him eating keep it up my sons was a little small when we got him but he is packing on the grams now :D
Robie:gj:

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

10g in three weeks isn't much, but as long as they are gaining !

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So true. I'll take what I can get, lol. But they're both looking pretty good so I'll put in the extra effort. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

If your BP is eating F/T than keep it on that unless of course you wish to feed live.

Switching back and forth is not recommended simply because there is always a risk that the animal won't switch back.

Since the female did not go for it I would have her on live until she eats with consistency.

Also even if she refuses next time I would skip assisting her and give her more time, assisting is stressful.

she was a rat eater when you got her correct?

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The breeder swore they were on f/t and had eaten (I didn't think to ask whether they were assit fed or not), but I really think he probably just hatched them out and brought them to the expo to sell. :tears: Poor things.

As for my girl, I'll let her be a little longer next time. I was just so concerned because they are so small.

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Originally Posted by JulieInNJ

The breeder swore they were on f/t and had eaten (I didn't think to ask whether they were assit fed or not), but I really think he probably just hatched them out and brought them to the expo to sell. :tears: Poor things.

As for my girl, I'll let her be a little longer next time. I was just so concerned because they are so small.

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And it's possible they were on f/t and likely eating on their own since breeder keep them in very small spaces for added security, however I have had animal even hatchling eating a certain type prey for me an than when with their new owner refusing it.