Buying hets from a new breeder..What do you need to know?

So, I've pretty much decided the morphs I'd like to get when I do start breeding.

Ideal group:
1. pied
1. clown
1.1 double het albino pied
1. enchi het pied
.3 het pieds
.1 butter yellowbelly
.1 black pastel
.1 pastel het clown
.1 lesser het clown
Maybe a few more female het pieds, or a morph het pied lady

Though I figure realistically my first breeding group will look like this:
1. clown
1. pied
.1 butter yellow belly
.1 black pastel
.1 lesser het clown
.1 enchi het pied
.2 het pied


As you can see, I'm going to end up with a lot of hets! But you can see where I'm going with some of these lovely snakes..I'm particularly excited about if I can get a pair of butter yellow belly het clown/black pastel het clown together to toy around with..SOOO many different morph combinations possible from that pairing alone, it's super exciting.


Anyway, the point is I will be a newbie breeder with a bunch of hets. I plan to take SERIOUS amounts of photos to prove genetics of these babies, but I would like to know what would make a buyer feel more comfortable about getting hets from an unknown breeder. Photos with ID cards in them all the way to the egg hatching, videos, hmm? Any ideas would help. I want to start of strong and build myself a solid reputation to stand on in the future.

Any other tips for the beginning breeder? Anything you would have done differently your first time? I know it's going to be rough at first getting my name out there, but I'm hoping if I can get a few people to purchase my babies and some of them prove out I can slowly become a name that people trust. Thanks in advance everyone!

I'm actually in this boat. I bought a couple of Pastel het. axanthics off of a breeder who worked closely with another breeder that I know, and who is well respected in my area.

I plan to prove them out this season. Even though my hets didn't come with any genetic proof/ paperwork I trust my source and I got a good deal even if they are just pastels.

What I plan to do is to paperwork the crap out of my guys. Keep records of the parents, the clutch mates. Include pictures, time stamps, etc. The more you can prove the better chance you have at selling a het. at a resonable price.

I'm even going as far as recording feedings, sheds, and "bodily movements." Each animal gets their own file and the file gets sold with the snake.

People are very weary about buying hets especially when they are normal looking - the more info you have on them the better.

Just my two cents.

Cheers.

Thanks a ton for the reply! Yes.. I'm going to work as hard as I can to record as many details as possible so the buyer can see everything they need to know about the snake. Hoping to get a good, easy system down before starting this all. I record things now but it's not the most intuitive way and is a little confusing to go back and read, plus it's only really good for one or two snakes, I'd like to just rewrite the way I record my info so it can all be easy and uniform later.

This is why I am wanting to have a visual morph for the father, so that even if I end up with a bad deal(one of the het mothers is just a normal or something), I am still guaranteeing myself to have a %100 het animal and not a possible het.

Good luck to you in the future!

And to anyone reading but not posting, I'd also still appreciate opinions of those who would NOT buy a het from a beginner. I'd like to know what I should be doing during my first few years while I'm being avoided by the majority of buyers that will help to be to be trustworthy me in your eyes. :D

Te typical Photo ID include Photo of Parents and photo of offspring, date of hatch and signature of breeder...

You could include photo and date of lock and photo of female on Eggs and date of lay...

In the end ink on paper doesn't mean that you're not scamming people. Fake hets these days are far less common than people think. Back when het pieds were 1500.00 for a female or het clowns were 2500.00 people were making big buck selling hets. But now days with many of the recessive animals being more affordable and hets bringing little more than most base morphs, I think you're safe.

I have quite a few hets that I never got anything with. I trust the breeder and know where they live if the animal doesn't prove out.

As a new breeder the thing you can do is have your stuff in order from the get go. Have pics of mom on the egg's and a clutch number. This way you and the buyer can keep track of exactly which clutch you say the animal cam from.

In the end it's your ability to establish trust with your customers.

You can also post pics of locks and Mom on eggs as well egg progression and hatching on forums such as this. If you establish a solid rep for yourself within communities like this one you may find the Classifieds section of the forum pretty useful. Other members who get to know you and can follow your breedings may be more likely to feel comfortable purchasing from you.
Just a thought.

I won't buy hets from an unknown. I prefer to stick with people I already know and trust. fwiw, I won't buy from some of the big guys either. There was a situation last year I think it was, where someone bought hets from one of the big guys. They didn't prove after a couple years and several clutches, and the seller blamed the genetics on disgruntled employees switching clutches around. As far as I know, no olive branch was ever offered.

You can go the paperwork route. Like someone else said, it all comes down to what your word means. Definitely document. Aside from backing up what you're claiming, people just love to see pictures.

While you're waiting on all of that to grow up so you can breed, spend time on the forums getting your name out there. Establish relationships with people and show by your words that you're worthy of trusting. That way when it comes time for you to have animals to sell, you're no longer an unknown, and people will at least have some trust in you. From there, always keep your word and take care of your customers.

Thanks, y'all have given me a lot to think about! :D

I love to take pictures! I'm very excited about setting up my own light box so we don't have to take them into the studio every time I want to photograph them!


I think as soon as I purchase the girls I'm going to begin setting up a facebook page. I can post photos and updates there and get to know a few of the people(if any) decide to like my page. I'll still be posting on here as well. When I get a little closer to my first season I'll set up a legitimate website. I'm hoping also that my snakes can speak for themselves, so if I buy quality animals I'll get quality babies :)


Again, thanks so much again everyone. This has been extremely helpful! You guys rock for helping a noob out :gj:

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about people believing you. When people see you producing visuals they will tend to believe you on the hets. I generally take a picture of the whole clutch which shows the visuals and the hets. Some people I sell to want paperwork, and some don't care. I think paperwork is pretty worthless and never ask for it when I am buying hets. One of the first guys to give out paperwork turned out to be a scammer.

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Originally Posted by J.Vandegrift

One of the first guys to give out paperwork turned out to be a scammer.

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That pretty much says it all

That's interesting, I'll keep that in mind. I'll still document everything in photos(as much for myself as for the buyer) but I can see how that would be a serious problem and could be manipulated by a scammer..

Hopefully my luck will be good and I will get some visual morphs out of these breedings! This group might not stay the way it is, if I find a good deal on a great snake or am able to spend a little more I might add a few more codoms. I like fireflies, if I can find a sweet pastel and an awesome fire(still learning what to look for on those) that would be a fun project that I could plug into other things later :)

I'm very excited right now! It feels like I already am incubating eggs :rolleye2: gotta be patient now :)

I think one of the most important things is for the breeder to be a solid member of their community. They may be new to breeding ball pythons, but they should not be new to the community. Someone who has been in the same area for a long time and is established isn't going to ruin their reputation over fake hets. If you google the name of the breeder, i would expect to see that they have a responsible reputation as a person.

There is a lot of access to public records and scammers are scammers. A new breeder who is a scammer has probably tried other scams. The Internet and public records are a wonderful thing. As others have said, paperwork is only as good as the reputation of the person supplying it.

Forgot to add: If someone is selling hets, then they better darn well have a homozygous version of the morph in their collection and be willing to share pictures with buyers. If they do not, that is a major red flag.

That's one of my biggest reason for wanting at least ONE visual parent of all my recessive animals! PLUS..I don't want to play that 'het game'!

I try to stay active here on the forums, and when things get closer to coming together I will try to become more active as a hopeful breeder in the community. Hopefully these next few years will be all about making good connections and friends. I want to be a good buyer as well as a good seller!

Today was sort of random lucky. I went to my grandma's house and she was complaining how her wine cooler never worked and she was going to throw it out. Guess who picked that up? ;) It's about the size of a large minifridge. I guess a little more than two feet tall? It's sitting by itself in our storage room for now, but that's one piece of equipment I hopefully now won't have to worry about in the future.

Now I just need a house of my own, to get to my target amount of money(I have about 1000 now, but I've been saving slowly) and the rest of my shopping will begin!


I'm setting up an etsy account as well to help me save up. I'm in art college full time with no time for a job(classes random throughout the day) so I'll be making awesome fun things to sell. I have some really neat ideas, some of them reptile themed. I want to make cutesy/cartoony stuffed animals based off REAL reptiles(not just 'lizard' which looks like an iguana, alligator, and a gecko at the same time! LOL)

I'll be sure to post any reptile themed artstuff here as well. Thinking of making custom ball python dolls/scarves/cute paintings/bracelets and things so people can have their favorite morph or maybe their favorite pet snake with his or her special pattern!



It seems overall the best thing to do is be a good person! I know I would HATE to be ripped off.. And I have a goal in mind other than money, I can't imagine doing something like that to someone else! It would get in the way of what I want to do eventually--get the experience and respect so that I can breed the less often bred species of snakes and help preserve them in captivity and increase interest in them in the pet trade while lessening the pressure on wild caught animals. :D That's why I want to breed. I want to make snakes I love, and I want to help out my favorite underdog snakes! Would love to be one of the firsts to successfully breed some of the wild caught animals to finally get some captive born and bred babies and start a new line of healthier animals. Then hopefully people will start buying the cbb babies and imports will slow down a little. That's why I need to get a good reputation, so I can do good for those snakes and people will trust in my word as a seller(and know I'm not scamming them!) I know this is years and years down the line, but I don't want to do anything now that could tarnish my name when it really matters.


Ah, I type too much! :oops:

Great thread! Thank you to all who posted! :gj:

I am not a big "facebook", "tweeter", and "whatever the next one will be" user.
I am more of a face to face type of guy;)
The best thing you can do is network in your area, word of mouth spreads like wild-fire. I am here and on a couple of local forums here in my city. I am trying to stay away from hets but I do have an albino male (some how he came home with me:confused:)
I know I am going to produce at least OG hets to make the females I need but some of the guys around here are already getting to know me and know I dont screw around when I say what I will do;)
Your "word" is all you have to live by and people will start to trust you.
Even though we all know a het is still a gamble, you have to also be ready for people that are looking for the easy scam:mad:

I just posted my hets for 2011 in the trade/sell section I have the video of me cutting the eggs and pics of them out of the egg and as a group in a bowl from when I got ready to set them in their own tubs. I used my visible albino to a 100% proven het female so I knew I get at elast 100% hets.
Now when I did the pieds the ear befoer I had one pied and rest possibl hets and had a paper stating that for one person that got them on fuana, ( heatherherps got my pied and a possible het male when we did a trade)

Until a got a better rep I am doing to the orginal buyer a visible albino backing against my hets )
if they don't produce a visible het , they send females back to me and the next season I will use my visible male to them and prove them out, then they get half the clutch and their females back(as it be consider a breeding loan) when I prove them. if not proven then I send them my male albino. ( and this is only to the orginal buyer as they will have to a paper to sign for the warrenty as I will keep a copy of every thing on file for x years. as well as paper works stating they 100% het .

I can't really add anything useful to this discussion, only that I'm totally jealous you're starting with a clown!

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Originally Posted by Sugarbone

I can't really add anything useful to this discussion, only that I'm totally jealous you're starting with a clown!

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See, that's how I felt about looking at all these breeders with clowns..so I decided..I want to start with one! And I started saving money like a mad woman :rolleye2: