Herpstat Not Heating Enough . . .

OK, so I have recently put together my DIY incubator using an old wine fridge. I'm using a 12" piece of 11" flexwatt for heating, and have it hooked up to my Herpstat. This is my first experience using a Herpstat, as I ordered one specifically for this incubator (the fact that I could adjust to tenths of degrees, along with Herpstat's reputation, is what sold me on using one of these for an incubator); I originally had this hooked up to a Zilla Temperature controller, but my temps were flucuating way too much, and decided to go with another thermostat. I have the Herpstat set to 90 degrees F (for my testing--no eggs in there), but the temps aren't getting above 78 dergrees . . . any idea what might be causing this?

Pics below so you can see what I've done. Maybe someone better at DIY stuff can tell me where I've gone wrong. ;) I've tried the probe in different places: taped to the flexwatt, laying loose in the fridge, tucked into an egg box . . . no higher temp results. :( The Herpstat is acting like it's not trying to heat above 77-78. The red light is on, like it's on full power trying to heat it up, but it just doesn't get there.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/Outside2.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...ostatAdded.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...ct/Inside3.jpg

Thanks in advance!

Maybe just try setting the Herpstat to a higher temperature...? Also, where did you place the probe for the herpstat to measure the temperature?

I've tried placing the probe in various places . . . in an egg tub, loose in the fridge, taped to the flexwatt. Same results wherever it's placed.

I have tried upping the temps setting as well, but to a lesser extent. I originally had it set to 89.5 degrees, then upped it to 90 when I saw that it wasn't rising. Still hasn't changed anything. :(

Need more flexwatt.

Back side of cooler and bottom should have flexwatt on it. Best to have more than needed than not enough.

Also make sure the cooler isnt metal where your using foil tape. This will just cause problems.

set it higher like 95 or higher and see what your temps read. I would also use a larger piece of flex watt , run it from the top of the back down

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

set it higher like 95 or higher and see what your temps read

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Right now thats not needed, as 1 12" long piece of 11" flexwatt isnt enough to heat the cooler up efficiently and stay stable

I agree with Rich. Don't blame the Herpstat! More flexwatt needed. With those tubs and design you are going to get some massive hot spots on the back of the tubs nearest the heat tape.

Regards,

B

I think I may have enough heat. When I was using the Zilla Controller, my temps were fluctuating between 84-94, so I know it's gotten hot enough in the past; that's what makes me think this is more of a thermostat than flexwatt problem. I just didn't want the temps fluctuating 10 degrees, so I opted for a better thermostat. That's what makes me think there's enough heat (because it has reached 90 and above before), but the Herpstat's reading is only 77-78 (and as I look at it now, it has dropped to 76.8), and therefore the tubs are only ~77 (tubs are all being monitored separately by different thermometers). Still has the red light on like it's trying to heat at full power, but the temps are going down instead of up . . . :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

I agree with Rich. Don't blame the Herpstat! More flexwatt needed. With those tubs and design you are going to get some massive hot spots on the back of the tubs nearest the heat tape.

Regards,

B

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Would adding a fan to the inside of the incubator assist with this? I've got a small one, but haven't added it yet. It would require opening a larger hole in order to get the plug through, so I've not done that just yet until I get my other problems figured out.

*Side note: the tubs are not pushed back all the way; they have about 3-4" of space between them and the flexwatt, and the shelves do not go all the way back either. I tried leaving room there to allow for air flow around everything.

Yes Fans will help even heat out top to bottom. But you Need more heat whether you think so or not.

Its best to have more than enough as it makes it easier for thermostat to keep temps up and stable. Put in a 3ft piece of 11" flexwatt and put the thermostat probe free hanging in the middle of the cooler taped to bottom of a shelf. Leave it sit over night and check back.

Also you sure you have the probe plugged in the right port on herpstat?

Your flexwatt should be heating more than that. I think either you've lost a connection to the flexwatt or your herpstat isn't putting out any power. To test this simply unplug your flexwatt from the herpstat and plug the flexwatt directly into an extension cord. You should be able to feel the flexwatt start to warm up when you hold your hand on it. If it still isn't warm, you're not getting power to the flexwatt and need to re-check your connections. To test the herpstat, if you have a lamp around and a regular old incandescent light bulb, plug it into the herpstat while you've got the red indicator showing it's heating. If the lamp doesn't light, your herpstat isn't putting out power. And yes, you'll want to get the fan before you set up multiple shelves with eggs. You may or may not need more flexwatt once the fan, flexwatt, and herpstat are all working.
- Paul

The proportional curve on the Herpstat is adjustable too. I bet you need to set it higher. It defaults to the normal. What are your ambient room temps? You should probably have some water bottles in there too to help keep temps properly when you open the door. That piece of flexwatt is going to take some time to heat that properly. Make sure you aren't using foil tape on the probe. Email spyderrobotics next. Some of the best customer service in the industry.

Regards,

B

I second that the fan would help, and in an incubator that size I have always heard that it was mandatory.

No harm in adding that extra flexwatt... These people know what they are doin :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PiedPeddler

Your flexwatt should be heating more than that. I think either you've lost a connection to the flexwatt or your herpstat isn't putting out any power. To test this simply unplug your flexwatt from the herpstat and plug the flexwatt directly into an extension cord. You should be able to feel the flexwatt start to warm up when you hold your hand on it. If it still isn't warm, you're not getting power to the flexwatt and need to re-check your connections. To test the herpstat, if you have a lamp around and a regular old incandescent light bulb, plug it into the herpstat while you've got the red indicator showing it's heating. If the lamp doesn't light, your herpstat isn't putting out power. And yes, you'll want to get the fan before you set up multiple shelves with eggs. You may or may not need more flexwatt once the fan, flexwatt, and herpstat are all working.
- Paul

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Thanks much! I will test out both the flexwatt and the herpstat separately ASAP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

The proportional curve on the Herpstat is adjustable too. I bet you need to set it higher. It defaults to the normal. What are your ambient room temps? You should probably have some water bottles in there too to help keep temps properly when you open the door. That piece of flexwatt is going to take some time to heat that properly. Make sure you aren't using foil tape on the probe. Email spyderrobotics next. Some of the best customer service in the industry.

Regards,

B

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Yeah, the proportional curve on the Herpstat is one of the first things I adjusted when I saw the problem. It is set to HI2. Ambient room temps are approx. 75 degrees. I do also have a quart milk jug full of water sitting in the back behind the shelves.

And I had also planned to email Spyder if I continued to have problems. I hated to bug them with stuff that may be more of an error on my end than a problem with their product. However, with the above-mentioned testing, I should be able to see if it's the Herpstat itself or a flexwatt issue.

*Side note/Update: The temps have dropped even lower today: they're reading 74.9 now.

OK, I have tested both. I plugged the flexwatt updirectly to the power, it is heating. I plugged a small fan (the one I intend to put inside the incubator eventually) into the Herpstat while it was supposedly heating the incubator. Fan was running. And as of now, the temps seem to be climbing slowly (it's now at 76.7). Perhaps I just didn't have a plug fully inserted somewhere? I didn't notice one when I was unplugging everything for testing, but I suppose it's possible. ;) In any case, now everything's plugged back up, and I made sure connections were firm when doing so. Hopefully everything will get where it's supposed to! LOL Keep your fingers crossed guys! haha

Good news! Herpstat now reading 88.3 degrees, though the individual tubs are ranging from 78 to 94. I've now added the fan to see if it regulates temps throughout.

Thanks much to everyone who offered assistance or advice! It is greatly appreciated, and glad things seem to be looking better!

One pitfall I have found and the only complaint I have with herpstats is they use cheap cords

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

Make sure you aren't using foil tape on the probe.

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Sorry to hijack the thread.....but I have never heard this before. Can someone explain why you shouldn't use foil tape on the probe?

Thanks.

At $3.40 a foot its really hard to understand why you wouldnt remove your one foot section and install the proper three foot piece???:confused::confused::confused:
You might be able to hit the temps that you want BUT you are going to overwork your flex-a-watt and/or your thermostat. If you are lucky it will just quit working but it might make you a small camp fire too? Who's fault will that be??
The problem is not with the thermostat, X-amount of flex-a-watt is only going to heat x-amount of space. Kind of like trying to heat your house with a zippo lighter, yes it will get the job done but it is not enough to do the job. Now you open the front door and your house drops to freezing temps and takes forever to heat back up after you close the door. Get the point??

You can run more flex-a-watt than you think you need and your t-stat will make sure it doesnt go over set temp. ;)

I'm not neccessarily opposed to adding more flexwatt if need be, I was merely trying to pin down the exact problem. Apparently there wasn't a good connection somewhere, and I don't think the flexwatt was even getting power before. It is working now, however, and the incubator is heating properly now. However, to be honest, I don't think a 3' piece of flexwatt would even fit in there . . . it might, but there might also be some left over that would wind up wrapping around to the outside of the fridge.

Since adding the fan, temps have regulated much better. The 3 tubs in the middle are reading 89 degrees, and the upper-most and bottom-most tubs are at 87. I don't really know that more flexwatt is needed . . . the temps are where they're supposed to be, and the thermostat doesn't seem to be overworking itself (no constant heating/off/heating cycles). Of course, I welcome everyone's input, especially since I am new to and not very good at these DIY things. What other things might I look for that would tell me the thermostat and/or flexwatt is being overworked?

More heating surface is going to give you more even temps and a quicker return to the proper heating temp when the doors has been opened. Might not be entirely necessary but the more thermal "floor space" you have the better the incubator is going to work. It's kind of like having a little space heater in your living room. Sure, it works great when the temps are a little cool but when the temps really drop, you open the door outside, or have a snow storm the little thing is just overwhelmed. Hope that makes sense. Best of luck!

Regards,

B

Ok so heres what you do, don't open your incubator in the middle of a snow storm, Nor should you try to incubate your eggs in an open room with a zippo.

I don't see why everyone thinks you need more heat, 11 inch is 20 watts a foot right? I'm using a 10 watt heater in my 70 qt cooler incubator, i know yours is bigger but still, you got twice the heat.. I open it, check on things, close it it drops about 5 degrees, in about a minute or 2 its back to temp. water works wonders.

Test it, open it it long enough to check on all your tubs and see how long it takes to get back up to temp. If it reasonable, your fine.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I don't see why everyone thinks you need more heat

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Its not "more heat".......... Its more heated area:rolleyes:
I'm just throwing in my :2cent: but I would rather see it built correctly rather than read the new post next spring. "What did I do wrong??"
I may not have had a clutch hit the ground yet but I do know DIY. If I see it I can build it, AND improve on it.

Unless you cooler is 1 cubic foot you can fit a 3' piece in there, Top, back an bottom;)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Its not "more heat".......... Its more heated area:rolleyes:
I'm just throwing in my :2cent: but I would rather see it built correctly rather than read the new post next spring. "What did I do wrong??"
I may not have had a clutch hit the ground yet but I do know DIY. If I see it I can build it, AND improve on it.

Unless you cooler is 1 cubic foot you can fit a 3' piece in there, Top, back an bottom;)

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in a sealed box with fans circulating air, im sure 20 watts spread over 3 sq ft vs 1 sq ft wouldn't make one bit of difference :rolleyes: his temps are swinging a whole 2 degrees... oh no!

what makes 3 feet "correct" than anything else? is this another "you must have two hides or else" thing? I just don't see what your basing this off of. It appears what he has works, so why fix it if its not broke?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Ok so heres what you do, don't open your incubator in the middle of a snow storm, Nor should you try to incubate your eggs in an open room with a zippo.

I don't see why everyone thinks you need more heat, 11 inch is 20 watts a foot right? I'm using a 10 watt heater in my 70 qt cooler incubator, i know yours is bigger but still, you got twice the heat.. I open it, check on things, close it it drops about 5 degrees, in about a minute or 2 its back to temp. water works wonders.

Test it, open it it long enough to check on all your tubs and see how long it takes to get back up to temp. If it reasonable, your fine.

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I opened the door for five minutes, temps dropped 2 degrees in each tub. It took about 10-15 minutes for the tubs to get back to their previous temp. Also, even if I had eggs in there I was actually checking on, I probably wouldn't leave the door open while I check. In addition to not being able to open the tubs until I remove them (not enough space between shelves), I would probably take out each tub individually, close the door, check them, and replace them in the incubator. Plus, since the door is glass, I can see some things without even opening the door. Humidity I couldn't check in this manner, but I can visually check for dented eggs, wet spots on eggs, etc. without having to open the door.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Its not "more heat".......... Its more heated area:rolleyes:
I'm just throwing in my :2cent: but I would rather see it built correctly rather than read the new post next spring. "What did I do wrong??"
I may not have had a clutch hit the ground yet but I do know DIY. If I see it I can build it, AND improve on it.

Unless you cooler is 1 cubic foot you can fit a 3' piece in there, Top, back an bottom;)

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Believe me, I have been using hova bators in years past. Those are highly dependent upon room temp, and their thermostats are nowhere near as good as this one. So even a slight drop in temp in this one I don't think is going to be as big as ones I've had previously, but still managed to have a 100% hatch rate of healthy babies.

As for being able to fit 3' of flexwatt in there, I don't want flexwatt on the bottom of the incubator. Since I have a tub sitting directly on the floor, I don't want them to come in contact directly with the heat source. I could, however, start above the bottom "lip" (area where I now have the fan and water bottle sitting) and go up the back and across the ceiling--not sure if 3' would fit there, but I suppose it might. So far, so good though. It doesn't seem to be taking very long for the temps to stablize even if the door has been opened.

I agree with all those saying not enough heat tape. The proportional curve doesn't come into play until 1 degree before the set temperature. Anything below a degree on the original Herpstat is full on. So if you have the red led and the temp is a degree below your setting you are getting basically the same amount of power as if the heat tape is plugged directly into the wall (minus a volt or so drop going through the triac). Also I believe alot of the flexwatt failures happen when its run full on for long periods of time. As I recall the manufacture even warns against that and recommend a certain amount of duty cycle. As others were saying its better to have a little extra. Ambient room temp can also play a big part in temperature regulation which is more noticable when the heating device is on the low side for an enclosure. Also fans in a incubator are pretty much mandatory to get good temperature gradiant top to bottom. I also find that not all flexwatt is created equal. There can be decent differences in heating ability between two similiar strips.

Just like your doing, with any enclosure it takes a little experimentation to find the best setup. :gj:

Dion Brewington
Owner, Spyder Robotics

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

Dion Brewington
Owner, Spyder Robotics

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^^^ This guy knows what he's talking about...and he makes a heck of a thermostat! :gj:

It boggles my mind that someone will attempt to hatch a clutch of eggs and skimp on $4 worth of Flexwatt. Spread that cost over a healthy clutch and the results are priceless. I might overwork some things but I do it right the first time. What value can you put on a failed clutch, incubation issues, or deformaties? The majority of problems from breeding are directly the fault of incubation. Why let that be your weak link? This isn't aimed at the OP at all. Just stating my opinion about arguing over an extra foor or two of Flexwatt. I agree there are areas to cut corners although I don't do it myself. I think we can all agree that incubation IS NOT one of them. Good luck SnakeGirl3!

Regards,

B

I agree. The incubator is the one thing that I go overboard on. I'd rather have too much than too little. Id rather have bigger than smaller. And I'd rather have the best equipment than the cheapest.
Eggs cannot move themselves if they are too hot or too cold. And let's face it you can't be there 24/7.
Deformities can happen with fluctuating temps. Why risk it?


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

It sounds to me like it is a very inefficient design you are losing too much heat for the power you are able to apply. You need more and better insulation or more power. You could add 2 inch blue foam to all walls top and bottom and leave a small viewing port in the door or more flexwatt. I understand Calorique makes lots of versions but the specs I got with mine say it must be cycled and should not be unregulated or it can cause a fire.

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

What value can you put on a failed clutch, incubation issues, or deformaties? The majority of problems from breeding are directly the fault of incubation.

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This is the best response I have seen yet:gj:

OK guys, apparently, the problem was that there wasn't a good connection somewhere, and the flexwatt wasn't even heating. However, it is now heating fine since I discovered that issue. Temps are stable, thermostat is not constantly on trying to heat. Top 4 tubs are remaining a good constant 89-90 degrees (there's some variance in tenths of degrees between those 4 tubs, but between 89-90). The bottom tub is only reading around 87, so I have ordered a bit of 4" flexwatt to add to it along the back wall along the bottom; hopefully, this will correct the cooler spot at the bottom.

The good news is, this incubator was not intended to be used this season--I was merely getting everything together and testing everything out. For purposes just like this. Cool spot? OK, we'll fix it. Not warm enough? We'll fix it. As I said, I was not opposed to adding more flexwatt if needed, just wasn't certain it was warranted at the time. However, once I got the flexwatt heating, it did seem to be doing the job with the exception of a cool spot at the bottom. So I am now going to add additional flexwatt in hopes of rectifying that issue.

Believe me, I know I've had a few temp drops during incubation in years past using my hova bators, but I've had no birth defects or otherwise unhealthy hatchlings. If I can produce healthy hatchlings from hova bators (and several clutches over the last 4 years, I might add) with 100% hatch rates, this one should definitely be better than what I've had. While I know that eggs should most certainly be kept in as tight of an incubation range as possible, eggs can withstand some slight changes in their environment, as long as those periods aren't extended for long periods. I'm sure that while females in the wild try and choose the most suitable place, you can't tell me the temps in those areas never drop at all overnight at least on occasion. If the temps drop 2 degrees when I open the door to check on eggs, and re-stabilize after 10-15 minutes (or less), I really can't see that hurting any of the hatchlings. I know I've had temp drops slightly larger than that for longer periods when using hova bators, and all of the hatchlings came out perfectly healthy. This incubator is definitely an upgrade for me--anything is an upgrade compared to a hova bator. ;)

87F on bottom is perfectly fine. I incubated half clutches this season at 87.

Just be sure to have fans blowing down to even it out more and your top temp should drop 1F by raising the bottom.

Also where is the probe positioned. Its best to have the probe at the bottom hovering mid air. Since heat rises, fans blow it back down keeping a consistent temp. Keeping probe at top the bottom will cool off a lot since all the heat is rising towards the probe.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

87F on bottom is perfectly fine. I incubated half clutches this season at 87.

Just be sure to have fans blowing down to even it out more and your top temp should drop 1F by raising the bottom.

Also where is the probe positioned. Its best to have the probe at the bottom hovering mid air. Since heat rises, fans blow it back down keeping a consistent temp. Keeping probe at top the bottom will cool off a lot since all the heat is rising towards the probe.

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At the moment, the probe is inside the middle tub. Still somewhat trying to find the best place for it. I have since changed the shelves as well--a friend suggested more wire-like shelving since that would allow for better air circulation, so I have made that change. But I could perhaps attach the line of the probe to one of the shelves, but leave the probe itself free hanging. And I may try that as well if I continue to have issues with cool spots. Thanks for the tip! :)

My fan is sitting on the back "lip" where the water jug is sitting, so about even with the second tub up from the bottom. I've got it blowing up at the moment (I was hoping it would circulate air up, hit the top of the incubator, and return back toward the bottom). But since I do seem to have a cool spot at the bottom, perhaps I should try moving it to the top shelf somewhere if I can find room, and letting it blow toward the bottom. If my additional flexwatt doesn't correct that issue, then I will certainly try that. Thanks for the other tip!

Yes, dont want the probe in the egg tub. This causes problems with the air outside egg tub being Higher than set temps. Thus causing condensation problems when eggs are in the tubs. Which doing it this way for one clutch is fine, but if you have many it can cause other eggs to have problems.

I always attach mine to the lowest shelf handing in middle away from the flexwatt. Doing so you should notice a steadier temp top to bottom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Yes, dont want the probe in the egg tub. This causes problems with the air outside egg tub being Higher than set temps. Thus causing condensation problems when eggs are in the tubs. Which doing it this way for one clutch is fine, but if you have many it can cause other eggs to have problems.

I always attach mine to the lowest shelf handing in middle away from the flexwatt. Doing so you should notice a steadier temp top to bottom.

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In addition to adding more flexwatt, I decided to try all of your suggestions. ;) They seem to be working great! The bottom tub is now reading about 88, while the others are within 5/10 of a degree of each other (around 89.5). Moving the fan so it's blowing down does seem to help regulate temps better throughout, and I moved the probe where you suggested as well. Below are pics:
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...edFlexwatt.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...lacement-1.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...nPlacement.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...t/Inside-1.jpg

I know the temps are a bit off in this pic, but that's because I took it after having the door open for a long while while adding the additional flexwatt, moving the probe, taking pics, etc.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...dewithTubs.jpg

So thanks again for all your assistance! It seems to be proving very helpful!

Ive just started having problems with my reptitemp thermostat. It used to keep around 90 at half way up, now its almost all the way up and it barely makes 94 degrees. I dont know what happened, I have the probe even closer to the heat source than before.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

Ive just started having problems with my reptitemp thermostat. It used to keep around 90 at half way up, now its almost all the way up and it barely makes 94 degrees. I dont know what happened, I have the probe even closer to the heat source than before.

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Is this in Incubator or a Rack.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Is this in Incubator or a Rack.

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Its on an aquarium. Just for my one python. I wouldnt use it on an incubator, but it was cheap and has done the job since I had it. Not sure if its just old or what?

Probe could be failing on its accuracy. If your Turing it all the way up and still only getting 94 its time to replace ASAP before it fails. Could have something getting ready pop on the motherboard.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Probe could be failing on its accuracy. If your Turing it all the way up and still only getting 94 its time to replace ASAP before it fails. Could have something getting ready pop on the motherboard.

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Darn :( I assumed it was just getting old... Its almost all the way up and at 93 usually. I guess it worked alright for the 2 years I had it though. Only one of the outlets on it worked for heat sources though.

Alot of cheaper stats when old start acting up.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Alot of cheaper stats when old start acting up.

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Yeah, I guess thats why theyre cheap.
Know of any mid price ones that are decent? I dont really have a need for something really fancy. All ive had reccomendations for were the reptitemp and then ones like helix etc.

www.reptilebasics.com and order a Ranco or Johnson. Cost you about 88$ shipped and will last you a while. And if it ever broke, Rich will take it and fix it for you.