a few questions... is she a loner? too many in one tank??

Okay give me some advice/tell me what to do..

I have a 20 gallon glass tank. aspen bedding, two hides, a basking rock and a nice size water bowl. So far I have three hatchlings in there, a female mojave, female pastel and a male cinnamon.

1st question.... My cinny and pastel cuddle, they are always wrapped up with each other or stacked ontop of each other in one or the other of the hides. My mojave on the other hand doesn't even like going in the hide, she sleeps randomly on the side of the tank or wrapped around the gages on the side. Why won't she hang out with her new friends? Is it normal for her to not even want to go inside the hides? and sleep just out in the open? Could she just be a loner and not want to hang out with the other two?? They are all basically the same age give a week or two.

2nd question.... My fiance wants 3-4 more hatchlings... same age as the three I have already. Can I put all 6-7 in the same 20 gallon tank, just for now while they are little then get a bigger tank a little later? OR will that stress them out having so many in that tank together?

any and all advice is greatly appreciated!!!
Thanks!

It's not a good idea to have more then 1 per tank, in my opinion, and they are not cuddling, the are trying to get the best spot.

you shouldn't house any BP together ever

Please house all of them separately.

Lose the heat rock. It can burn your snake badly!

Gotta echo what`s been said already. You have 2 too many in that tank. Plus, It`s WAY too big of a tank for hatchlings. (Easy Solution) Go to WalMart and get three15 quart tubs and seperate the babies.

@Swaboda325, just curious: who told you to set them up like that in the first place?

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Originally Posted by SlytherynHiss

Gotta echo what`s been said already. You have 2 too many in that tank. Plus, It`s WAY too big of a tank for hatchlings. (Easy Solution) Go to WalMart and get three15 quart tubs and seperate the babies.

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You could even use something as small as a 6qt as well: the snugger the enclosure and hides the better for babies (though I too personally like the 15 qts for the younger ones)

Please separate the three you have and house them all and any others you might acquire separately: having them all together currently is likely really stressing them out. There's many threads on here that tell how to properly set up a tub setup if you're new to snake-keeping in tubs.

read the care sheet on the front of the site. You are violating some the cardinal rules of bp care. Np - easy to correct!

Another note: as with any new additions please quarentine everyone separate from your established collection for at least 3 or so months (use different tools for each as well such as feeding tongs). If you were to put new snakes in with the three you have it could be a big problem if one of the new ones was ill.

6-7 in a 20g?! 2 would be too many in any tank let alone more than 1 in a 20g. Bps should be housed individually. Next you need a under tank heater NOT a heat rock... Your going to cook your snake with that. Also.. You need to monitor your temps on hot and cool side (91-hot, 82.5-cool is what I use)... Now onto your other question... Your bps are NOT cuddling... Not by any means.. They are competing for the best spot in the tank... This could lead to major amounts of stress especially as they grow (and they grow faster than you think) this stress could lead to stress and if your temps are off thes could lead to respiratory Infections, and food strikes.. Both could kill your BP... Please either pick one you like and get rid of the other two or get two more tanks.

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Originally Posted by tsy72001

Lose the heat rock. It can burn your snake badly!

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Its just a rock I have under the lamp for them to lay on. Not a plug in heat rock. I know they can burn, as well as under tank heating! :)

Also, this is pretty rare, but BP's have been known to eat one another. Like I said it's rare, and has never happened to anybody I personally know, but it has happened.

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Originally Posted by Swaboda325

Its just a rock I have under the lamp for them to lay on. Not a plug in heat rock. I know they can burn, as well as under tank heating! :)

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No no... You want under tank heating.. But you also have to monitor it so as it doesn't get too hot. Easy solution just go to loses and get a dimmer and put it Inline with the heater

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Originally Posted by LizardPants

@Swaboda325, just curious: who told you to set them up like that in the first place?

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My sister currently has three BP's and two corn snakes all in the same tank, and has had them all together for almost three years with no problems. She started with two then three in the 20 gallon, then 4 in the 20 gallon. now that the corns and the one BP are pretty big in size her husband built her a 5'x3' tank that still houses them all with no problem. Another family member has aa 40 gallon tank with one large BP (almost 4 feet) and a smaller one probaly 20-25" long in the same tank as well. again with no problems.

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Originally Posted by Mft62485

Also, this is pretty rare, but BP's have been known to eat one another. Like I said it's rare, and has never happened to anybody I personally know, but it has happened.

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Snake cannibalism isn't as uncommon as one would think I just watched a whole 3 hour documentary on it this weekend lol (lame I know) If they are hungry enough or in a non sharing mood.. It's gonna happen. And when you have three competing for one spot... I wouldn't test it.

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Originally Posted by Swaboda325

My sister currently has three BP's and two corn snakes all in the same tank, and has had them all together for almost three years with no problems. She started with two then three in the 20 gallon, then 4 in the 20 gallon. now that the corns and the one BP are pretty big in size her husband built her a 5'x3' tank that still houses them all with no problem. Another family member has aa 40 gallon tank with one large BP (almost 4 feet) and a smaller one probaly 20-25" long in the same tank as well. again with no problems.

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Ok idk where to even start with this.. I'm having a really hard time biting my tongue right now... OBVIOUSLY this is Not the right way to care for your snakes. Like honestly is this a joke? Cause it is going to upset some ppl on here if it's not

to the Original Poster, i don't care if you know somebody that houses many snakes together. IT IS TOO RISKY! i believe you should read this, and read it THOROUGHLY.

Can I Keep Multiple Snakes in One Enclosure?

you have already received some great advice, but this is an in-depth article i wrote up a little while ago, for instances just like these.

there are far too many people who are uneducated on co-habbing, or just too cheap to spend the $ to house their snakes separately.

i hope this article is of some benefit to you and especially your snakes.

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Originally Posted by zach_24_90

Ok idk where to even start with this.. I'm having a really hard time biting my tongue right now... OBVIOUSLY this is Not the right way to care for your snakes. Like honestly is this a joke? Cause it is going to upset some ppl on here if it's not

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That's the same thing I thought. Just because they don't have any problems housing multiple snakes in one tank, doesn't mean you won't. BP's should only be together for breeding. And you know somebody who houses BP's and Corn's together? That is all sorts of wrong.

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Originally Posted by Swaboda325

My sister currently has three BP's and two corn snakes all in the same tank.....

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I can't even wrap my head around this.....

Please separate your snakes and enlighten/inform your sister on proper snake keeping. All the snakes involved will thank you! :)

It's not always easy to tell when a snake is stressed out; often times there are only subtle clues. There may seem to be "no problems", but in fact there may be many problems. In the wild, snakes live completely alone, only encountering others for short periods of time during their breeding season (and even then, they are not comfortable with other snakes near them; during the breeding season most snakes start refusing food, unwilling to put themselves in a vulnerable position). I completely understand where you're coming from, it's cute and they may seem to be fine, but expert herpetologists have concluded that housing snakes together is stressful, and imo that's the sort of advice we should rely on simply because often times we have no way of telling when something's wrong.

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Originally Posted by Swaboda325

1st question.... My cinny and pastel cuddle, they are always wrapped up with each other or stacked ontop of each other in one or the other of the hides. My mojave on the other hand doesn't even like going in the hide, she sleeps randomly on the side of the tank or wrapped around the gages on the side. Why won't she hang out with her new friends? Is it normal for her to not even want to go inside the hides? and sleep just out in the open? Could she just be a loner and not want to hang out with the other two?? They are all basically the same age give a week or two.

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The "cuddling" you see is actually a fight for dominance. This is fairly common among snakes that are housed together. They feel threatened by each other and want to scare each other off. It seems strange, I know.

As for the mojave, it sounds to me like she is not as assertive as the other two and has been chased off, so to speak, except she has no way of leaving. It sounds to me like she is frightened and doesn't want to go near the others or their "territory" (which probably consists of the hides and water dish).

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Originally Posted by Swaboda325

My sister currently has three BP's and two corn snakes all in the same tank, and has had them all together for almost three years with no problems. She started with two then three in the 20 gallon, then 4 in the 20 gallon. now that the corns and the one BP are pretty big in size her husband built her a 5'x3' tank that still houses them all with no problem. Another family member has aa 40 gallon tank with one large BP (almost 4 feet) and a smaller one probaly 20-25" long in the same tank as well. again with no problems.

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My brother shoots up heroin. Doesn't mean its a good plan for you or I. It is your snake and at the end of the day you can do what you want with it. If they were my snakes I would have one per enclosure, for all the reasons already mentioned many times on this forum.

Is this a troll, or is it serious?
I hate to be harsh, but it's another example of people getting expensive animals without doing any of their research first. I'll NEVER understand that. A good book costs 15 bucks. Internet care sheets are free. If you found BP.net, how did you avoid seeing any care sheets?

You want to keep these animals healthy, and watch them grow up safely? House them separately, and use appropriate equipment to do it.
Get a proper thermostat, line some bins with clamps up over a heat cord, indoor/outdoor thermometers with remote probes, etc.

The fact that these animals are often hardy enough to be piled into a tank by an ignorant owner doesn't meant this is the way they should be kept. Eventually, that situation will cause problems, it's only a matter of time.

you posted yesterday in this post
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-few-questions
saying that you wanted a mojave. But in todays post you say you have one. you also posted two days ago, asking what kind of pythons you should get because you were going to start breeding ball pythons. but now you say you have 3. Did you just get all of these snakes in the last day or two?

i'm a little confused...can you explain???



.......ps. I am new around here...so this post was my polite way of saying that this is BS

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Is this a troll, or is it serious?

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From the second I read the first post it sounded like a troll attempt. I doubt anyone that had spent the money a single morph much less multiple would be that ignorant on the basic care of a ball python.

If I am wrong and you are serious...well...WTF?

It's in your (and your snakes') best interest to listen to all of the people who are posting here.

These people have been working, keeping and breeding snakes for years, and sometimes even decades, so they know what they're talking about.

Please listen to their advice so you can provide a happy, healthy home for your ball pythons. Stressing out any animal is not cool in my books, even when you don't 100% know what you're doing is wrong. However, everyone is telling you how to house these animals, yet you are choosing to ignore it. That is completely stubborn and irresponsible.

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Originally Posted by Swaboda325

My sister currently has three BP's and two corn snakes all in the same tank, and has had them all together for almost three years with no problems. She started with two then three in the 20 gallon, then 4 in the 20 gallon. now that the corns and the one BP are pretty big in size her husband built her a 5'x3' tank that still houses them all with no problem. Another family member has aa 40 gallon tank with one large BP (almost 4 feet) and a smaller one probaly 20-25" long in the same tank as well. again with no problems.

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Assuming you are a troll, I will warrant myself to be a little mean.

Your family sounds like they don't know what they are doing at all.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

My brother shoots up heroin. Doesn't mean its a good plan for you or I. It is your snake and at the end of the day you can do what you want with it. If they were my snakes I would have one per enclosure, for all the reasons already mentioned many times on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Assuming you are a troll, I will warrant myself to be a little mean.

Your family sounds like they don't know what they are doing at all.

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+1 seriously

just the other day you posted that you were getting into breeding and asking what to mate a bumblebee to. You also posted a couple days ago you wanted a mojave. I think this is probably a very young person with a lot of ideas swimming around ....

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Originally Posted by eel588

From the second I read the first post it sounded like a troll attempt. I doubt anyone that had spent the money a single morph much less multiple would be that ignorant on the basic care of a ball python.

If I am wrong and you are serious...well...WTF?

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Ditto!

stop feeding the trolls noone is that misinformed :colbert:

Well, this person can rest assured that without the proper housing, heating and thermostats, for all the animals in question, at least one will end up sick with RI. Possibly one with a burn from uncontrolled heat. I don't think they will thrive because as we all know BPs really are NOT that hardy. Their very strict heat and humidity requirements have shown many people here that the slightest mistake or variance can cause hundreds of dollars in vet visits. There are exceptions to that, but on the whole, it's just plain true.

How many newbies are only here because their new BP wouldn't eat or got sick? Quite a few. Those are almost daily issues with BPs. So why the H E double hockey sticks do people keep impulse buying them?? Why are they still considered easy and beginner snakes? That, I will never understand.. They are only easy after the initial investment for proper enclosure, UTH, thermostat with probe, digital thermometer and hygrometer, 2 small identical hides, water bowl etc... PER snake.

They are not cuddling. They are competing for the best hot or cool spot. They must thermoregulate and can not properly do so with other bodies in the way. They are competing for the best hiding spot. Either way, snakes are not social animals. They operate on scent mostly but also and touch. If anything moves near them, it puts them in defensive mode. How do you think your snake is feeling to have something else touching it all the time? Every time one moves and the other feels it, I bet it startles the other one. A tight fitting hide doesn't move and startle you constantly. It stays still, safe, secure. Think about it from a snakes point of view.

A wild animal where instinct and senses are everything. Anything else out there that moves is one of 2 things... Predator... Or prey. Unless it's breeding season and hormones make other senses kick in.

It isn't like you holding and handling your snake for a little while each week or even each day. It's another animal having to live in the place that particular snake has a right to feel alone and secure.

Anyway.. Have fun getting all of them to eat for you.

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Originally Posted by Swaboda325

My sister currently has three BP's and two corn snakes all in the same tank, and has had them all together for almost three years with no problems. She started with two then three in the 20 gallon, then 4 in the 20 gallon. now that the corns and the one BP are pretty big in size her husband built her a 5'x3' tank that still houses them all with no problem. Another family member has aa 40 gallon tank with one large BP (almost 4 feet) and a smaller one probaly 20-25" long in the same tank as well. again with no problems.

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Just because it has been done, does not mean that it should be. I am new to BPs, but I do read and find out what is good for them, not me. Please take care of them properly or let them go to someone who would take care of them.

Wow, I Had never seen such 'hostility' on a thread here:rofl:
But it is deserved...


To the OP, don't take this thread as hate towards you, although it might seem so, but instead take it as a free, caring advice.


Ps
Want to house multiple animals together? get an actuall fish tank