Pied or Ringer?

I just hatched this lesser cinnamon poss. het girl and thought she was a ringer; however, several people feel she is a pied. These folks have hatched quite a few pied combos and I respect their opinions even if I disagree. I know both cinnamon and lesser pieds have been extremely high white so I doubt the combo would add more pattern but I guess stranger things have happened. Your thoughts?

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/IMG_0785.jpg

I think whatever she is she is beautiful but the way that her color touches the white, the kinda curvy fade instead of just a faded ring makes me lean towards a low white pied.. I would love to see her after a few sheds either way!

I have no useful opinion to add, but I will say that if you can negate the high-white effect of both the cinny and lesser on the pied by combining them, then I know a combo I'll have to pursue.

Lovely snake! :D

The thing is, it's such a classic pied pattern. Even really high white ringers usually revert back to a regular pattern midway up the body.

Remember these guys?

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Pewter-animals.

...that's what this reminds me of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

The thing is, it's such a classic pied pattern. Even really high white ringers usually revert back to a regular pattern midway up the body.

Remember these guys?

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Pewter-animals.

...that's what this reminds me of.

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It doesn't really look "classic Pied pattern" to me. It does have the striping that all my Black Pastel het Pieds have though. BG can't say for sure buddy, but that striping is making me lean to het. You're gonna need to breed it and find out for sure. It sweet no matter what it is. Got a clutch hatching soon and hoping for some Pandas.

I say Pied

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

It doesn't really look "classic Pied pattern" to me. It does have the striping that all my Black Pastel het Pieds have though. BG can't say for sure buddy, but that striping is making me lean to het. You're gonna need to breed it and find out for sure. It sweet no matter what it is. Got a clutch hatching soon and hoping for some Pandas.

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It's classic "pied combo" to me. Sure, I've seen the striping in hets, but the white creeps very high up the sides, and there's basically no trace of regular wild-type patterning...

...but yeah, could still be a het. Mostly I think it could be a het because every other cinny pied has come out solid white with a toupee. Breed it and see.

Here's a larger one.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=cinny...t:429,r:0,s:28

That's a nice stripy pattern, but it can't even touch the heavy pied action going on in that ringer up top.

These are the nicest stripes on a het I've ever seen:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-SALE-OR-TRADE!

...and that guy still doesn't look like Dave G's cinny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

That's a nice stripy pattern, but it can't even touch the heavy pied action going on in that ringer up top.

These are the nicest stripes on a het I've ever seen:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-SALE-OR-TRADE!

...and that guy still doesn't look like Dave G's cinny.

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Take away the white and add a few hundred grams and they would look the same. Don't be confused by the white. BG has seen many animals that are het and "bleed" through. Both parents would need to be het for it to be a Pied. It still may be, but we won't know until it's bred.

Here is a photo of the three lesser cinnamons poss. het pieds that were in the clutch. The ringer still stands out even though they all have stripes. The parents were cinnamon het pied x lesser het pied. I also got a cinnamon pied and two cinnamon poss. het pieds.

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/IMG_0782.jpg

Hi Dave,
Congrat's on that clutch... Nice looking babies! What... No pictures of the Cinny Pied???
I don't see the unique facial structure of a Lesser Pied there.
- Paul

Thanks everyone!

Paul, here are a couple picture of the cinnamon pied. I was hoping she was a lesser cinnamon pied but I believe she's a cinnamon pied.

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/IMG_0794.jpg

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/IMG_0798.jpg

Actually, after looking at the clutch photo I'd have to agree with those who think she's a ringer het. Her pattern looks very similar (to me) to her lesser cinny het sibs.

Also, that little cinnamon pied is lovely! I love her little tail spot :)

whatever it turns out to be its good looking right now congrats!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Actually, after looking at the clutch photo I'd have to agree with those who think she's a ringer het. Her pattern looks very similar (to me) to her lesser cinny het sibs.

Also, that little cinnamon pied is lovely! I love her little tail spot :)

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Yeah, ditto on all the above.

And I'll take one of each, please.

Its a ringer

pied white doesn't mix with the colored parts, its sharp lines dividing the white and color. The part at the tail makes you go eh....still looks ringer, but the rest of the snake is obvious ringer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

It doesn't really look "classic Pied pattern" to me. It does have the striping that all my Black Pastel het Pieds have though. BG can't say for sure buddy, but that striping is making me lean to het. You're gonna need to breed it and find out for sure. It sweet no matter what it is. Got a clutch hatching soon and hoping for some Pandas.

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I second the opinion of BG. The cinny gene makes for nice striping in het pieds. All of my Pewter het pieds and cinny het pieds have had very strong striping. I would second the notion that it is a het as well. Good luck with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

Thanks everyone!

Paul, here are a couple picture of the cinnamon pied. I was hoping she was a lesser cinnamon pied but I believe she's a cinnamon pied.

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/IMG_0794.jpg

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/IMG_0798.jpg

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I thought the lesser pied was a white snake.....as well as butter pied...? Very nice looking animals you have!

Brandon, when the cinnamon pied was sitting in the egg her head looked the same color as the lesser cinnamons so I thought that maybe the combo of cinnamon and lesser may have added color. I know it's a stretch but stranger things have happened. Plus, I have seen lesser pieds with small blotches of color. You can see in the photo above that her head is lighter then the cinnamon but slightly darker then the cinnamon lesser. I have no doubt that she's "just" a cinnamon pied and the dark eyes really confirms it. The ringer by the way has two different color eyes which really adds to the cool factor.

This clutch has been confusing from the start as I thought the cinnamon het pied male would have been the father not the lesser het pied. The lesser hp bred her once and the cinnamon hp bred six times. Then it was confusing as I got opinions all over the place. But I'm still sticking with my original post hatch thoughts...cinnamon pied and ringer cinnamon lesser poss. het pied. Fun stuff!

David, I would put money on that cinny lesser being a definite het. Here are a few of my pewter het pieds with similar striping.
These are all 50% pos hets from last season. Pretty obvious which are hets in my opinion.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/DSCF9954.jpg

100% het Pied from 09
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...tpiedmale2.jpg

100% het pied from 09
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ewtermale3.jpg

100% het Pied from 09
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...pewtermale.jpg

100% het Pieds from 08
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/IMG_3555.jpg

...and I'm sure you get the picture.:P If that critter is a female I would hold her back. Can't have too many combo het pieds!

Congrats again on some beautiful animals.

Brandon

Congrat's again on that clutch and thanks for posting the pictures:)