Is "The Truth" owed an apology?

Thoughts anyone? It is now almost September and Big Gunns has been anxiously waiting to see if "The Truth" was wrong.

Is it just Big Gunns or is the silence from some deafening?

This thread has EVERYTHING to do with "morphs and genetics" in case you're wondering "powers that be".

:confused: I'm lost,.. you got a link to a thread or something to refresh memories?

Do you mean the truth about what that NERD snake is?

I may need some back history

Smells like a troll and it looks like some are feeding it.

Caution is the word...

Someone hack your account???? Talk in the 3rd person much :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rperry03

Talk in the 3rd person much :rolleyes:

---

lol, if you know Big Gunns then you know...he owns 3rd person conversations :P

Some more info would help the powers that aren't understand what the heck your speaking about :rofl:

Does this thread have anything to do with the Flatline genetics? I'm guessing...could be wrong.

The way things have gone he may get it. Anyone know about the infamous 6 eggs from DesertxDesert? That guy has gone underground. It has been well over 60 days, may be into the 70's & no word. You would think he would want some vindication from all the heat he took.

Big Gunns should get an apology for the accusations that you were the Truth.

Lots and lots of desert females out there now. I'm pretty curious to see what happens with this next season.

Questions questions. I think I would take one and give it a go.

Im just lost. A back story would be great

He's referring to several conversations about whether desert females produce viable clutches.

So far lots of talk, and lots of shut up and wait, but nada. How long has the gene been out there now?

We're all waiting on a verdict bottom line. As each month passes it looks worse. I do think we will know what's going on fairly soon.

I think the ball python community deserves to know what's going on.

droid!!!!

Yeah, it doesn't look too good. I keep watching breeders post their projects, show pics of the locks, and then when it comes time for the eggs to hatch, the desert clutch is suddenly ignored.

I'd really like to know more. I really want to know if it's all about the females or if there is something else to it(might be the only morph where females are worth less than males? lol! :P )

But no one is saying anything so there could be other issues involved with the morph.

When you take a chance with a new morph you win some you lose some! Maybe everyone has just been unlucky this year but it seems ridiculous that no one has anything to say!

Serious. What is up with the fishing story.

I too have been watching all the desert female stuff. It all disappears when it is results time. So many desert combos but no super and no hatchlings from females.

I remember the post he's talking about, I tried to find it but with no luck. I'm not sure if it got deleted? It was basically a prediction saying that the desert gene wouldn't work out I think. Wish we did have new info, or someone would speak up!

So are the females just not producing any clutches? Or are they just not producing more deserts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Driver

So are the females just not producing any clutches? Or are they just not producing more deserts?

---

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...ad.php?t=29653

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Smells like a troll and it looks like some are feeding it.

Caution is the word...

---

My buddy. Glad to see you are doing well. It just wouldn't be the same without yah. Big Gunns may even see you next week if you make the show. SHHHHHHHH. We'll need to keep that between us buddies to make sure the crowds don't show up to see Big Gunns. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emilio

We're all waiting on a verdict bottom line. As each month passes it looks worse. I do think we will know what's going on fairly soon.

I think the ball python community deserves to know what's going on.

droid!!!!

---

Agreed. Funny how nobody that's "in the know" will do it though. :colbert:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainbutter

It's my response to cryptic opening posts in a thread, over something where we have no new information to discuss, that has been rehashed dozens of time, so why not talk fishing.

mpkeelee, what did you fish for in Maine? I've seen more than one fishing show on TV that did an east coast episode chasing stripers. I'd absolutely love to cast for 'em and land some beasts.

I love saltwater fishing but live as far away from the coasts as you can get in the United States. I'm crossing my fingers that the gf gets into medical school somewhere within driving distance of a beach where I can do some shark fishing.. my absolute favorite! Set up some bait, use a rod holder, kick back in a folding chair and sunbathe or read or build a sand castle, and listen for that clicker.. ZIIIING!! Fish on!

However I absolutely love the serenity of fishing Minnesota lakes and rivers. The further away from other people I can get, the better. I'm hoping to do a float trip down the Kettle River, out of Hinckley, down into the St. Croix a ways. I've heard about great smallmouth bass fishing there, and now that river levels are finally dropping it should be easier to identify where the fish hold up in (or out of) the current. If I don't get out to the Kettle, then I have plans to hit up a lake with the intention of using my new fish finder to look for suspended fish in deep water, and attempting to target them with ice fishing jigs and plopping bait right on top of their heads :D

---

Who has "no new information to discuss"? You maybe. Big Gunns has all the "information" to put this to rest one way or the other. He just needs the right motivation to do it. No "rumors"....no lies....just "THE TRUTH"!!!!!!!!

"rehashed dozens of times" by who? Not Big Gunns. Do you think if we all stop talking about it maybe it will go away? Big Gunns is sure some wish that was the case. ;)

You know what Big Gunns finds very interesting. Either nobody that's anybody reads this forum....or all the "players" that know exactly what Big Gunns is talking about are too scared to comment because they know Big Gunns will eat them for breakfast if they do. You decide which one is true. It's one or the other.....or possibly both.:D

ps. Big Gunns loves to do a leeetle fishing once in a while himself.

One reason why I will never own a desert female, and if i produced desert females they will not be sold for the market people are selling them now at 2k+.

How can you justify a snake at that value that cant produce? Any Females i would happen to produce would be given away dirt cheap.

Until i see pics upon pics of females dropping 5-6-10 egg clutches all healthy and hatching, theres no reason to ever sell them for the price their at. Look at caramel females, they were expensive, But with the kinks and no clutches they can be picked up cheap for under $400 for a non kinked female

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Who has "no new information to discuss"? You maybe. Big Gunns has all the "information" to put this to rest one way or the other. He just needs the right motivation to do it. No "rumors"....no lies....just "THE TRUTH"!!!!!!!!

---

So what your saying is.....ummm.....we still have no new information to discuss?

I never got into fishing, so anyone make it to the Woodward Dream Cruise this weekend?

OK - all the OFF TOPIC fishing post have been moved to.....Off Topic, and you can continue your discussions there. I've even copied the link for you:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...apology-thread

Whether you like Big Gunns or not, there ARE some people genuinely interested in what's going on with deserts, particularly those seriously considering parting with a significant amount of money to get into the project.

You may not like how he started the thread, but I can guarantee you that there are people interested in the subject and the possible ensuing discussion without having to wade through the thread de-railing posts. At least have some modicum of respect for your fellow members who DO want to see this topic flesh out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by purplemuffin

I remember the post he's talking about, I tried to find it but with no luck. I'm not sure if it got deleted? It was basically a prediction saying that the desert gene wouldn't work out I think. Wish we did have new info, or someone would speak up!

---

This one?

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...97720&key=2011

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

One reason why I will never own a desert female, and if i produced desert females they will not be sold for the market people are selling them now at 2k+.

How can you justify a snake at that value that cant produce? Any Females i would happen to produce would be given away dirt cheap.

Until i see pics upon pics of females dropping 5-6-10 egg clutches all healthy and hatching, theres no reason to ever sell them for the price their at. Look at caramel females, they were expensive, But with the kinks and no clutches they can be picked up cheap for under $400 for a non kinked female

---

Thanks Rich!, I post early on for some backround on this, never got it til your post, now I can try to piece together the rest :rolleyes:

If this is about Desert x Desert, Didn't Robyn just post a pic of a desert x desert something? Spreader I believe? Sorry on my phone I can't browse other threads will posting. It's an all white snake very similar to Mojave? Ill try and find the link and post it here in no one does before me. Ok, that being said I do have a female desert blast which is about 400 grams shy of breeding now, very picky eater, slow to gain weight. I'm sure someone with a larger female can give us some insight. Big guns since you have tbs truth once and for all why wait for "those in the know"? Just post what you have, they will have no choice but to post a response or I'm sure they will get haggled by others "in the know" ;)

Edit: here's is the URL
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=144286

Robin, thank you for taking care of the off topic chatter. This is, indeed, a very interesting and important topic. I'm glad Neil brought it up because for whatever reason, I was completely oblivious to this issue.

That being said...Neil...if you boast about having "the truth" about this matter, and then don't actually post anything but taunts, how is that any different than those others who are "in the know" just sitting on the information they have? If you have some sort of proof that is important to the community, then just share it. If you believe you know something, but can't prove it, then let us know so we can use that information to help weigh our own choices in the desert market. If you just want to bring a serious issue to the forefront of public attention...that's fine, too...so long as you're honest about what you're intentions are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Robin, thank you for taking care of the off topic chatter. This is, indeed, a very interesting and important topic. I'm glad Neil brought it up because for whatever reason, I was completely oblivious to this issue.

That being said...Neil...if you boast about having "the truth" about this matter, and then don't actually post anything but taunts, how is that any different than those others who are "in the know" just sitting on the information they have? If you have some sort of proof that is important to the community, then just share it. If you believe you know something, but can't prove it, then let us know so we can use that information to help weigh our own choices in the desert market. If you just want to bring a serious issue to the forefront of public attention...that's fine, too...so long as you're honest about what you're intentions are.

---

Thank you. I'm all for finding out about Female Deserts and if they can produce viable clutches, but the way this thread started STINKS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

That being said...Neil...if you boast about having "the truth" about this matter, and then don't actually post anything but taunts, how is that any different than those others who are "in the know" just sitting on the information they have? If you have some sort of proof that is important to the community, then just share it. If you believe you know something, but can't prove it, then let us know so we can use that information to help weigh our own choices in the desert market. If you just want to bring a serious issue to the forefront of public attention...that's fine, too...so long as you're honest about what you're intentions are.

---

Once at attention seeking troll, always an attention seeking troll.

No drama, no neil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Once at attention seeking troll, always an attention seeking troll.

No drama, no neil.

---

Trolling is a very sufficient fishing method especially for big fish... ;)
Mkay just kidding here...

Going back to Topic...
I have Question to all of you who have any knowledge about it because I have null/nicht/zero.

Is that Problem only with desert females or desert combos females as well... Because if is.. and "people" know about it and still sell them for 5-15k.. They should be hang by jewels on closest phone pole or lantern...:rage:

With exception to a few scattered reports/pictures that I keep hearing about, I don't think there's been much in the way of proof of many desert females laying good eggs, whether they're single gene or not. I'm certain that anyone trying to breed deserts knows about the rumor, and I am equally as certain that none of those people have had good results because they would have immediately tried to discount the rumor with proof. I know I sure would be blanketing the web with pictures, especially if I had females to sale.

I decided months ago to hold back all of my females (if I get any) until this rumor is confirmed/denied, or until I can prove them out myself. It is really surprising that all of these breeders are selling females at all, knowing full well that they could potentially be ripping someone off. Are they disclosing this to customers before they purchase? Look at how many of you had no idea about this. I just saw some dude trying to sell his 1kg female for 4k. I suppose he could be one of the ignorant few, but I wouldn't take that bet and I think it's pretty seedy.

Robyn is the only one that I've seen step up to the plate concerning his girls. (kind of :P)

Quote:

---

You buy a Desert female from PE. If Desert females prove to be non breeders in the next two seasons, you can get your money back or credit towards something else.

That is a special deal, comes with a special price! $2500 for a female gets you the credit, $3000 for the female gets you a refund. We get the female back, naturally.

---

After reading that whole thread, I'm interested to see what the next two or 3 breeding seasons bring, after some of them drop the temperature quite a bit. Those videos from Ghana are also interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spitzu

they would have immediately tried to discount the rumor with proof

---

Only if they wanted to sell some desert females.

Sit on those females a while, release the good news, and their value in the eyes of the public takes a huge jump, particularly if they're not newborns.

I don't believe the above is true, but there is no guarantee that they would 'immediately try to discount the rumor'. Heck, if a project I'd invested time and money into came to fruition and much of the public was ridiculing it, I'd sit back for a good while with a smirk on my face.

I think it's safe to say that everyone is crossing their fingers that there are little to no issues with deserts, because having such a beautiful trait to work with would be good for everyone's collections.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainbutter

Only if they wanted to sell some desert females.

Sit on those females a while, release the good news, and their value in the eyes of the public takes a huge jump, particularly if they're not newborns.

---

That's assuming that EVERYone who has a desert project would have the exact same lack of values. If it was just ONE breeder who had control over who published what information...then maybe someone could think that. But there are many different people who have a vested interest in proving out the deserts. And MOST of them (if not all) are honest, upstanding individuals who wouldn't sit still for keeping that kind of secret just so a few greedy souls could earn some extra bucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainbutter

Heck, if a project I'd invested time and money into came to fruition and much of the public was ridiculing it, I'd sit back for a good while with a smirk on my face.

---

Really? And would you continue smirking if, at the same time, your personal integrity and business reputation are going down the tubes because everyone assumes you're intentionally shafting the community to earn a few extra dollars?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Really? And would you continue smirking if, at the same time, your personal integrity and business reputation are going down the tubes because everyone assumes you're intentionally shafting the community to earn a few extra dollars?

---

If he wasn't selling desert females(the prior sentances talked about holding them back) then how would his reputation be hurt by sitting back and not selling and not telling anyone anything? All he'd be doing is building up his own collection of future breeders to cash in once the nay-sayers were proven wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

If he wasn't selling desert females(the prior sentances talked about holding them back) then how would his reputation be hurt by sitting back and not selling and not telling anyone anything? All he'd be doing is building up his own collection of future breeders to cash in once the nay-sayers were proven wrong.

---

If the public is demanding proof...and you HAVE the proof, but are sitting on it for as long as you can so that the price of your females will plummet and then go UP UP UP, people WILL notice. If your business name is getting dragged through the mud due to nothing but public speculation and you HAVE the proof to squash all that speculation....what would you do? Hold onto it in the hopes that your females will be worth more money for a short period of time, while at the same public perception of your business rep is getting worse and worse?

Maybe I misunderstood mainbutter and that's not what he meant by that statement. But I stand by my point regardless, even if it's not relevant to mainbutter himself. (Which was all hypothetical in the first place, since I don't think he ever implied that he actually had breeding deserts or any direct knowledge of their breeding quirks.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

If the public is demanding proof...and you HAVE the proof, but are sitting on it for as long as you can so that the price of your females will plummet and then go UP UP UP, people WILL notice. If your business name is getting dragged through the mud due to nothing but public speculation and you HAVE the proof to squash all that speculation....what would you do? Hold onto it in the hopes that your females will be worth more money for a short period of time, while at the same public perception of your business rep is getting worse and worse?

Maybe I misunderstood mainbutter and that's not what he meant by that statement. But I stand by my point regardless, even if it's not relevant to mainbutter himself. (Which was all hypothetical in the first place, since I don't think he ever implied that he actually had breeding deserts or any direct knowledge of their breeding quirks.)

---

Me? Oh heck no, me, I'd be crowing about MY female laying viable eggs and showing pictures and videos.

But then, hypothetically, with everyone already convinced that all desert females are sterile, how exactly would I be able to prove that my desert laid eggs that hatched? I could show pics galore and be accused of faking them, or that the eggs didn't hatch and I switched out the babies to fool everyone that the female was fertile. Or the female wasn't a desert at all, because it wasn't sterile. If the public is pre-convinced of something being true, there isn't much at all anyone could do. So to avoid the drama and fuss of being called a scammer/liar/deluded, I could see a breeder ignoring all the uproar and sticking to his/her own little breeding and selling without getting involved in it all.

It used to be EVERY caramel was hatched kinked in the public mind, but now there are obviously lines that are breeding without many kinks, since there's babies(and adults) that have no kinking.

I'm just saying that someone is under no obligation to divulge any information at all about their own private breeding projects, like it or not. Punishing someone for not rushing up to dump themselves into a huge drama-fest with no real way to fend off the idiots who will refuse to believe proof even if you had continuous video of the whole process.... that seems extreme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I'm just saying that someone is under no obligation to divulge any information at all about their own private breeding projects, like it or not. Punishing someone for not rushing up to dump themselves into a huge drama-fest with no real way to fend off the idiots who will refuse to believe proof even if you had continuous video of the whole process.... that seems extreme.

---

I don't think we're disagreeing, we're just sort of discussing two different points that kinda sound the same.

I agree that no one should be (or could be) forced into divulging any particular information. I was just addressing the statement made about a hypothetical breeder smirking over the hidden information and taking advantage of it. I just wondered if any real businessman out there would consider the risk to his reputation worth such a fleeting price advantage?

At this point, the whole thing is pure speculation anyhow. We keep hearing about viable clutches, but so far no one has actually documented any (at least not that has been publicly shared). Would such documentation be subject to scrutiny? Certainly. But there are plenty of trusted sources (I'd consider you one of them, Theresa) who's word I would take as gold and their pictures would be worth a thousand words and then some. And hang the nut-job cynics who believe EVERYone in the world is a liar out to scam for every penny they can get. :salute:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

OK - all the OFF TOPIC fishing post have been moved to.....Off Topic, and you can continue your discussions there. I've even copied the link for you:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...apology-thread

Whether you like Big Gunns or not, there ARE some people genuinely interested in what's going on with deserts, particularly those seriously considering parting with a significant amount of money to get into the project.

You may not like how he started the thread, but I can guarantee you that there are people interested in the subject and the possible ensuing discussion without having to wade through the thread de-railing posts. At least have some modicum of respect for your fellow members who DO want to see this topic flesh out.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

This one?

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch...97720&key=2011

---

Thanks Rabs....this is why they pay you the big bucks around here. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Robin, thank you for taking care of the off topic chatter. This is, indeed, a very interesting and important topic. I'm glad Neil brought it up because for whatever reason, I was completely oblivious to this issue.

That being said...Neil...if you boast about having "the truth" about this matter, and then don't actually post anything but taunts, how is that any different than those others who are "in the know" just sitting on the information they have? If you have some sort of proof that is important to the community, then just share it. If you believe you know something, but can't prove it, then let us know so we can use that information to help weigh our own choices in the desert market. If you just want to bring a serious issue to the forefront of public attention...that's fine, too...so long as you're honest about what you're intentions are.

---

Did you forget who you're talking to JLC? There's always a method to Big Gunns madness. Maybe Big Gunns was fishing for some "Big Fish" on this thread. It seems they were smart enough not to take the bait. Never forget the intelligence level of the perfect one. He knows what he's doing. BG is sorry if some of you don't like it. Well....not that sorry. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Hedgehog

Thank you. I'm all for finding out about Female Deserts and if they can produce viable clutches, but the way this thread started STINKS.

---

If you don't like the way the person is giving you the information....you have no need to stay in his classroom. Just don't click the thread. You can thank Big Gunns later for solving your leeeetle petty problem.;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wilomn

Once at attention seeking troll, always an attention seeking troll.

No drama, no neil.

---

We could be twins huh? :P

Are you asking for Big Gunns banning again? So sad buddy.....and BG thought we were turning over a new leaf in our friendship. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spitzu

With exception to a few scattered reports/pictures that I keep hearing about, I don't think there's been much in the way of proof of many desert females laying good eggs, whether they're single gene or not. I'm certain that anyone trying to breed deserts knows about the rumor, and I am equally as certain that none of those people have had good results because they would have immediately tried to discount the rumor with proof. I know I sure would be blanketing the web with pictures, especially if I had females to sale.

I decided months ago to hold back all of my females (if I get any) until this rumor is confirmed/denied, or until I can prove them out myself. It is really surprising that all of these breeders are selling females at all, knowing full well that they could potentially be ripping someone off. Are they disclosing this to customers before they purchase? Look at how many of you had no idea about this. I just saw some dude trying to sell his 1kg female for 4k. I suppose he could be one of the ignorant few, but I wouldn't take that bet and I think it's pretty seedy.

Robyn is the only one that I've seen step up to the plate concerning his girls. (kind of :P)

---

He gave that guarantee to ONE PERSON....not EVERYONE. If he didn't Big Gunns really wants to see that in full context.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

That's assuming that EVERYone who has a desert project would have the exact same lack of values. If it was just ONE breeder who had control over who published what information...then maybe someone could think that. But there are many different people who have a vested interest in proving out the deserts. And MOST of them (if not all) are honest, upstanding individuals who wouldn't sit still for keeping that kind of secret just so a few greedy souls could earn some extra bucks.



Really? And would you continue smirking if, at the same time, your personal integrity and business reputation are going down the tubes because everyone assumes you're intentionally shafting the community to earn a few extra dollars?

---

No need to "assume" anything here.

It's kinda funny. BG thinks "The Truth" said it best. We always like to "kill the messenger". Why is that? Then again.....BG guesses that since he's the "messenger".... it's very understandable. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Did you forget who you're talking to JLC?

---

Never. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Big Gunns

There's always a method to Big Gunns madness. ... He knows what he's doing....

---

Of course you know what you're doing...in your own head. But the more claims you make of your great secrets bringing a bounty of good fortune to the herping community....and the more we keep running into barren trees with no fruit........the more we're all inclined to credit it simply as...madness.

Nothing wrong with the topic of discussion. Nothing wrong with not actually knowing anything for certain about the outcome of the problem. But no matter what you think you know in your own head, the taunting and teasing does more harm than good. Now...is there truly great harm and injury in your taunting? No. Almost none, in fact. And yet, still more harm than good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Never. :rolleyes:



Of course you know what you're doing...in your own head. But the more claims you make of your great secrets bringing a bounty of good fortune to the herping community....and the more we keep running into barren trees with no fruit........the more we're all inclined to credit it simply as...madness.

Nothing wrong with the topic of discussion. Nothing wrong with not actually knowing anything for certain about the outcome of the problem. But no matter what you think you know in your own head, the taunting and teasing does more harm than good. Now...is there truly great harm and injury in your taunting? No. Almost none, in fact. And yet, still more harm than good.

---

Every time Big Gunns decides he's gonna help the Ball-Python.net community with his great knowledge of the industry and animals you meanies hurt is leeetle feelings and he goes away crying.:tears::tears::tears: Why should Big Gunns help a bunch of meanies. :P:D

Maybe the people that it "harms" deserve it. Just a thought.

Now Big Gunns is gonna go wipe his tears away and decide what he'll do next. :tears::tears:

It wont be long before the truth comes out about desserts. From what I've heard around the community here, the females do have problems. I have seen no proof going either way. Which leads me to believe the worst of the situation.

Ive seen quite a few threads where when it comes to clutch time, there are no more updates.

So lets get down to proof. Where is it, who has collected any?

Theres even a couple desert threads with people anxiously awaiting updates right now. They are pretty overdue as well.

People can draw their own opinions based on whats going on in the forums or who they talk to in person. Until someone steps up and posts the proof going either way, its all speculation and hear-say.

My own conclusion, its not looking good for deserts. To early to tell? Maybe, but given how long they have been around. Some of the rumors I'm hearing are very plausible.

So who has the pudding? Because the proof's in there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seang89

So who has the pudding? Because the proof's in there.

---

Best line ever!!!:gj:

My thoughts on this thread are that maybe BG knows somebody DOES have the answer, who they are, and what the answer is, but was trying to draw them out into the open? Just my deduction...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Best line ever!!!:gj:

---

Let's not forget all of Big Gunns lines.:D

It was very good though. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DemmBalls

My thoughts on this thread are that maybe BG knows somebody DOES have the answer, who they are, and what the answer is, but was trying to draw them out into the open? Just my deduction...

---

;);)..........

No disrespect to ANY one and I really mean this but 10 years c'mon. I for one will not invest in desert's til we definitively know whats going on. I have nothing but respect for many of the breeders involved with this project, I know we will get some more info very soon.

As a matter of fact even if they (the females) don't produce I'd still buy a desert male for the market corrected price. So in my humble opinion there will always be a market for males just not where they are now.

For those who have been around BP's for a while there have been many rumors started by some bad experiences.

I remember hearing pied females don't eat or grow, you need to raise hets, bunch of poo poo. There was also a caramel females rumor that they don't breed, more poo poo.

There may very well be a problem with desert girls but until I see definitive proof it's just another rumor about a popular new morph just like all the other ones that have come and gone. I for one have no problem raising up desert females because the other side of the coin is there still may be a super! If that proves to be true then all the attention will swing in a totally different direction.

Just like the toffees we don't know what the facts are until more breeding's are done, time will tell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

OK - all the OFF TOPIC fishing post have been moved to.....Off Topic, and you can continue your discussions there. I've even copied the link for you:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...apology-thread

Whether you like Big Gunns or not, there ARE some people genuinely interested in what's going on with deserts, particularly those seriously considering parting with a significant amount of money to get into the project.

You may not like how he started the thread, but I can guarantee you that there are people interested in the subject and the possible ensuing discussion without having to wade through the thread de-railing posts. At least have some modicum of respect for your fellow members who DO want to see this topic flesh out.

---

Then shouldn't we start a topic with some actual substance?

Keeping this thread alive is just feeding a guy who does nothing but troll your website.