New Siamese rats, and some questions

I got these two Siamese rats today from the pet store. The female is the dumbo, the male is the normal eared.
I havnt ever bred this color so i have a couple questions.

Should two visual siamese be bred together?

Thing that also sucks is getting them from a pet store means they could be siblings, they are the same size and came from the same breeder. Their offspring would make feeders anyways but I dont want to create pups with problems. Any input would be great about breeding them.

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...-23_190847.jpg

Breeding them together wont harm anything. Just Hold back Litters to start new groups.

But when you breed them every baby that female gives birth to will be siamese

And from the picture looks like your feeding Kaytee Lab blocks. If so ditch it as ive yet to hear of rats/mice breed well on that stuff.

Itso nly good for pets no breeders

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Breeding them together wont harm anything. Just Hold back Litters to start new groups.

But when you breed them every baby that female gives birth to will be siamese

And from the picture looks like your feeding Kaytee Lab blocks. If so ditch it as ive yet to hear of rats/mice breed well on that stuff.

Itso nly good for pets no breeders

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Ok thats cool that all the offspring will be siamese.

I use kaytee lab blocks when im in between mazuri orders. I see no change in production when i used to use only kaytee. I give them enough fresh veggies, real grains and fruits that the lab block i use probably doesnt make a huge difference really.
Thanks for the info!

There is no issue with breeding a brother sister pair. ;)

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

There is no issue with breeding a brother sister pair. ;)

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Well that makes things easier :)
I always thought it was a bad idea. Must not be like that with all creatures huh.

It's not that way with breeding animals like this.

What happens is, if the pair is prone to something like cancer, and you inbreed, then you will know sooner that you need new stock, and can act more quickly to replace them, because the genes will be doubling up, and doubling up, and doubling up.
Once you have a clean line, you should have no health problems when you inbreed, because you are not introducing any new things that could cause problems. This is why some breeders have very coveted lines, is because of their genetic purity from disease and other health problems. :)


If you bring in new blood all the time, you may not know what you're introducing until it's too late, and all of a sudden you notice you're producing a lot of animals with issues. It just adds a lot of variables that are harder to control. :)


Hope this helps understand, even though it's very breif and maybe not a perfect explanation. :D

Well her first litter of pups are starting to get peach fuzz and im seeing some color.
It seems half are hooded and half are selfs.
All in a beige color.
Very interesting. Im not going to cull any of them so I can see what exactly they will turn out to be. They are very pudgey, thick looking pups, probably the best looking ive ever seen.
Ill post some pictures soon.

Every one of those babes can end up being Siamese. And considering both parents are, they probably will. You won't know for sure though till later on.

x2 to the above. siamese often don't color up until first molt

siamese x siamese = ALL siamese.

Oh I know they will change but its cool that they are so far just beige little cuties. :)

lol this was the worst idea ever...these things are too cute already! :D
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...cture030-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by extremeballs

You won't know for sure though till later on.

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Siamese is a simple recessive so anytime you breed a recessive to a recessive you have one outcome, all recessive.

All blue litters and all Siamese litters are some of my favorites :)

Super cute litter!

So will the hoodeds just kind of lose that marking eventually?
I mean ive never seen a hooded siamese :P
It will be weird to see them change that drastically.
Blues and siamese are two of my favorite kinds of rats, it will be hard to cull this litter :(

This is Archemedes, my Siamese Rex. :) We just love him to death! He's gonna give us some pretty babies with his Siamese sister, Sade. And they both have the best personalities.

BEFORE:
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/...s/100_1984.jpg

AFTER:
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/...s/100_2044.jpg

His markings only show up on film now. You don't see them otherwise.

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Originally Posted by extremeballs

This is Archemedes, my Siamese Rex. :) We just love him to death! He's gonna give us some pretty babies with his Siamese sister, Sade. And they both have the best personalities.

BEFORE:
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/...s/100_1984.jpg

AFTER:
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/...s/100_2044.jpg

His markings only show up on film now. You don't see them otherwise.

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That is VERY cool!
that answers my question :)

Right now I only have the 2 siamese rats. If I wanted to hold back one of the babies for breeding would I have to get another male in the future for the holdback? Or can it be cross bred with either mom or dad?

You can cross breed son to mom and so on.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

You can cross breed son to mom and so on.

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hmm well that sucks, that wouldnt give me more production. So I would have to get another male if I wanted to keep a holdback female. bleh. :P

Just hold a 1.2 from this litter and youll have a new siamese breeding group

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Originally Posted by mues155

hmm well that sucks, that wouldnt give me more production. So I would have to get another male if I wanted to keep a holdback female. bleh. :P

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No. You can breed daughter to dad as well.

But I would hold back a group, like Rich suggested.

In-Breeding in rats really isn't a big deal. As long as the line is healthy they can go something like 26+ generations before there'd be any sort of weirdness cropping up.

As for Siamese rats they are a beige rat with brown color points. The color points are affected by temperature, the colder the rat the stronger the points. With a self the rat should be all over creme colored with dark brown on their feet, nose, base of the ears and base of their tail fading up the back. The color points only show up where the beige is. So if the rat has a hooded marking it will only have the color fade up the hood with white sides. Or if the rat has a blaze, it won't have the color point on its nose.

Some times if you breed a Siamese to other colors, say a Siamese to a blue, the blue babies may still get color points, they'll just be darker blue points. Generally this is frowned upon, a self rat shouldn't have color fluctuations. Typically breeders won't breed for a marked Siamese line since it tends to mess up the Siamese coloring/markings.

Himalayan and Burmese are other colors that are color points, the Himi's being white rats with brown points and the Burmese being light brown with darker brown points.

Anyways if you're breeding feeders it doesn't really matter, if you are breeding to breed Siamese rats, mix them with black selfs to make the color stronger.

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Originally Posted by kendracandraw

In-Breeding in rats really isn't a big deal. As long as the line is healthy they can go something like 26+ generations before there'd be any sort of weirdness cropping up.

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There is 75+ generations of inbred rats doing great, there is no magic number of generations.

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As for Siamese rats they are a beige rat with brown color points.

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Wrong, Beige rats are black rats with the red eye gene diluting the coat to beige.
Siamese is it's own gene and comes in red/ruby eye and pink eyes.

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Some times if you breed a Siamese to other colors, say a Siamese to a blue, the blue babies may still get color points, they'll just be darker blue points. Generally this is frowned upon, a self rat shouldn't have color fluctuations. Typically breeders won't breed for a marked Siamese line since it tends to mess up the Siamese coloring/markings.

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True, but for pets people LOVE blue rats with points showing.
I've sold a ton of them.

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Himalayan and Burmese are other colors that are color points, the Himi's being white rats with brown points and the Burmese being light brown with darker brown points.

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Himilayan is the albino and Siamese genes coming together and Burmese is agouti + Siamese and the red eye gene coming together :)

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Anyways if you're breeding feeders it doesn't really matter, if you are breeding to breed Siamese rats, mix them with black selfs to make the color stronger.

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The best information you offered, a very good point, black rats tend to make darker points in Siamese.