Bubbles?

Before I make a mountain out of a mole hill and run off to the vet I want to make sure this is an actual problem.

My enchi isn't the friendliest snake in the world and just loves to hiss at me. Well 3 times within the past week I've seen bubbles coming out his mouth after he starts working him self up hissing at me. The first time I wasn't sure what I was seeing and they were gone before I could get a good look at them. The second time they came out with his tong and today he had a nice big bubble on the side of his mouth.

I've checked his mouth several times and I have noticed anything other than a little saliva. Against my better judgement I've even put him near my ear to listen for any popping sounds and I haven't heard any. He's been eating fine and just had a perfect shed on the 10th. He looks and acts normal.

Are the bubbles just from him hissing so much or is there something potentially serious going on here?

Other relavent commonly asked for info:
He's in a 41qt rubbermaid tub in a rack
paper towels for substrate
two hides which he uses
eats once a week
temps are 90-91 on the warmside and 78-80 on the cool side
I don't have a humidity reading, I'm currently working on that, I'm guessing it's around 40-50% there is no condensation on the tub and his water dish is on the cool side

Anyone? I could really use some advice on this. My vet costs an arm and a leg to visit so I'd like to avoid that if possible.

Give it a couple hours, and people will be online to respond.

I would say and RI, clicking noises and mucus are not the only symptoms. I would get him to a vet to be sure. Maybe stuck shed in the nostrils,but then i think you would be hearing a wheezing sound?

I have never seen any of my guys blow bubbles, but none of them are hissers so it is kind of hard to voice an opinion. I'd probably separate him and nebulize with F10 for a week or so just to be safe. It won't hurt him, and you just might be halting an RI.

RI most likely. Usually by the time there are bubbles it is quite far along My advise is it is time for the vet you will need drugs to treat it with. Also check your husbandry very carefully it is often caused by something. I use 80 cool end 90 hot end 80-85 ambient air temps and 60% humidity with a fair bit of ventilation.

How much air holes do you have and what is the air temps not just the surface temps or are you taking local air temps and no surface temps?

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

RI most likely. Usually by the time there are bubbles it is quite far along My advise is it is time for the vet you will need drugs to treat it with. Also check your husbandry very carefully it is often caused by something. I use 80 cool end 90 hot end 80-85 ambient air temps and 60% humidity with a fair bit of ventilation.

How much air holes do you have and what is the air temps not just the surface temps or are you taking local air temps and no surface temps?

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The temps listed are surface temps. I'm at work so I can't get the air temp right now. There are no holes in the bin because there is an 1/8 in gap between the bin and the top of the rack.

I will make a vet appointment. :(

Edit: if it is an advanced RI then he was really good at hiding all the symptoms. When he finally relaxes there are no bubbles, there hasn't been any mucus and his breathing is fine. Checking his mouth usually upsets him again, but there are no bubbles present there either. He also hasn't refused food at any point.

I guess it could be a weird behavioral thing but bubbles are not a good sign. Personally I'd rather be safe than sorry and take him to the vet.

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Originally Posted by babyknees

I guess it could be a weird behavioral thing but bubbles are not a good sign. Personally I'd rather be safe than sorry and take him to the vet.

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I wasn't trying to say it was a good sign. I do have a vet appointment scheduled so we will find out for sure soon. I what I was trying to say was that there have been no other signs of RI, so I don't think it's an advanced RI. The bubbles don't happen every time he hisses either. I've been checking on him daily and I've only seen bubbles 3 times after he worked himself up a lot. I honestly think it's just his saliva, but I have considered that it could be a RI which is why I wanted other opinions first before rushing to the vet.

I have a neurotic Cinnamon that hisses and strikes all the time. Never seen a bubble from her. My guess would be the snake is sick. How sick, would be very hard to tell. Higher temps and moving the water bowl over the heat source will help in the mean time.

Regards,

B

I would also suggest getting some way to read your actual humidity, if there is a gap that large I bet it's lower than you suspect.
Pushing the water bowl closer to the warm end will help your humidity.
Good luck, I'd definitely be doing the Vet thing if I saw bubbles multiple times,
occasionally they will blow bubbles after drinking a lot, but not very often.

I am assuming RI it is the most logical the usual progression is stretched straight out or elevated head, then clicks and pops noisy breathing most of the time and next is bubbles and last pen mouth breathing. RI is a huge range of things with similar symptoms some are treated the same some not the same (fungal RI over bacterial RI)

I have dealt with it a number of times as I help do rescues and many come in with RI. There is no definite pattern but the vet tech I work with sometimes usually says that at the bubbles home based treatment is not usually a good idea. I a just parroting my RVT.

The next important thing to think on is where it came from it is uncommon for RI to just happen with no trigger at all. Usually something related to husbandry. I know that Dr. J. Rossi and Dr. R. Klingenberg both have commented on high humidity and low ventilation causing RI. Top venting is poor at best air tends to flow across the path of least resistance across the top. That generates a stale air condition at the lower 1/3 of the tub, where the snake is. Personally I'd start adding holes in each end about 1/3 to 1/2 way down the side to increase air flow.

Condensation only occurs when you have warm to cool either warm tub sides against much cooler air or cool tub sides against warm air. then the water condenses on surfaces. No condensation is not an indicator of high humidity just humidity and temperature difference. Pull something out of the freezer you get frost on the surface. Humidity from the air freezes on the exterior.

I have never heard any reptile vet comment on low humidity causing ri just high with poor air flow. Bacteria and flora do not do well in low humidity conditions.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I am assuming RI it is the most logical the usual progression is stretched straight out or elevated head, then clicks and pops noisy breathing most of the time and next is bubbles and last pen mouth breathing. RI is a huge range of things with similar symptoms some are treated the same some not the same (fungal RI over bacterial RI)

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He's usually not a snake I handle daily because he is so unfriendly, but I do spot check daily and I haven't seen any of those symptoms. Bubbles are the only thing I've seen. :confused:

I will add some air holes to his tub and all of the other tubs in my rack as well. I'm going to bump the temps a little too. My humidity may be lower than I think it is, but I haven't had a bad shed since I switched to using a rack. I keep the water on the cool side usually but I do move it over the heat when I seem them starting to go blue.

I do have a vet visit scheduled, currently for next week as I only get paid on the first of every month and I'm not sure how much the total cost will come to if I need meds. I have requested a pay advance from my employer and if I get that tomorrow I will move up the appointment to be sooner. The vet I called thinks he will be fine until next week if I bump up the heat.

Sheds are an excellent humidity gauge if you are not having bad sheds it is very likely over 55% personally I'd not worry if you are getting good sheds it is quite likely high not low I am guess just like everyone else if the snake is shedding fine it isn't low enough to matter.

As I am sure you know sometimes the signs are hard to spot and some of the more timid snakes (aggressive are often fearful timid ones) often hide it better than others. Just like wild animals can be on deaths door and still seem healthy because predators single the weak and sick.

Thanks for your help. I'm hoping if it is a RI it was caught soon enough to help him. He may be a little jerk, but he's my little jerk and I don't want to lose him. :(

Well my BP did that once before...i was giving him a bath and I put his hide in there. He was on top of his hide and I'm assuming he was drinking his bath water. Then he started blowing bubbles out his nose he didn't do anything that seemed like it was hurting him but it sounded like he wheezed but after that the bubbles stopped coming out and I've never heard him wheeze again...

Bubbles sound like the start of an ri, vet visit would be good. Also try raising the temps so ambient air is about 93 and increase humidity to 80% this will help. If it doesn't get better in a day or two, or gets worse then vet is your only option. Prob prescribe baytril saline drops or an inject or two of baytril. Good luck, keep us posted.

Sounds like an RI to me. Watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJCnPfuqaBM

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Originally Posted by Don

Sounds like an RI to me. Watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJCnPfuqaBM

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The bubbling in that video is not like what I am seeing. I did manage to get his mouth open today and he does have some bubbles in the way back of his throat so I think this isn't a very advanced case (I'm hoping anyways). The trip to the vet will be able to tell me for sure thouhg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I have never heard any reptile vet comment on low humidity causing ri just high with poor air flow. Bacteria and flora do not do well in low humidity conditions.

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low humidity can cause problems like ri, I think he talks a little about it here. here's a link to blog radio with dr scott stahl one of the best exotic vets in the U.S.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...ile-veterinary

So I took him to the vet this morning.

The vet thinks he may have an early bacterial RI and gave him an injection of convenia antibiotic. If this doesn't clear it up within a week the vet is going to give me a different antibiotic to try. If none of that works we will run a bunch of tests to determine what type of infection it is. The vet said it was early enough that we had time to try to treat it with antibiotics before testing for different fungal and bacterial infections. His breathing sounds find and his air way doesn't seem irritated.