euthanizing rats, how i kill mine

Let me start by saying I, like most other snake hobbyists do not enjoy killing rats but it is a necessary evil. Some people use c02 or dry ice and what that does is essentially eliminate the oxygen in the enclosure. I use Ziploc bags, I put one small or just weaned rat in the bag and flatten the battle remove most to the air. The rat dies in 2-3 minutes and only moves erratically for 5-10 seconds so I believe the suffering is minimal. He can still breathe but the oxygen is quickly used up and they don't cry as they do when feeding live. Then they are already individually bagged I then weigh them and use a marker to write their weight on the bag. I have not used this on a full grown rat but I imagine you would need a pretty strong bag.

I don't know.. That does sound like it takes a little too long for me. I prefer it to be rather instant. I don't even want them to suffocate for a minute. I use the spinal/cranial separation.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I don't know.. That does sound like it takes a little too long for me. I prefer it to be rather instant. I don't even want them to suffocate for a minute. I use the spinal/cranial separation.

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x2

At the end of the day they are still just rodents. Whether if you use co2, dry ice, cervical dislocation, or bludgeoning they end up with the same result. We have to sacrifice an animal's life in order for our snakes to survive. All of the methods mentioned about are much better than nature treats them. Personally I bag up to about a 7-10 Day old rats and mice this way and throw them in the freezer. My weanlings I normally feed off live and the rest are prekilled or stunned just before they are dropped in the tub. It's to each his own really. There's no wrong way to do it I don't guess. It's just peoples opinions on what works for them.

You've said that on a site where there are people who breed rodents for pets also. Because they care about them just as much as any other animal. Rats are highly intelligent and social animals as well. Unlike snakes.

You will most definitely cause friction saying something like that even though this is a reptile forum.

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Originally Posted by karls-snakes

Let me start by saying I, like most other snake hobbyists do not enjoy killing rats but it is a necessary evil. Some people use c02 or dry ice and what that does is essentially eliminate the oxygen in the enclosure. I use Ziploc bags, I put one small or just weaned rat in the bag and flatten the battle remove most to the air. The rat dies in 2-3 minutes and only moves erratically for 5-10 seconds so I believe the suffering is minimal. He can still breathe but the oxygen is quickly used up and they don't cry as they do when feeding live. Then they are already individually bagged I then weigh them and use a marker to write their weight on the bag. I have not used this on a full grown rat but I imagine you would need a pretty strong bag.

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I do the same thing with my pinkies and fuzzies with one important (to me) difference. I have a CO2 tank and I put a puff of CO2 in the bag. If you get the mix right the CO2 acts as an anesthesia. I then evacuate all the air and freeze. I am not going to say that this is the most humane way to euthanize. The big problem is that baby rodents are pretty CO2 resistant and if you get the mix two high it can be painful. I have a CO2 chamber for larger rodents. Its just a high plastic tub with a lid. I put a small hole in the side near the bottom to insert a hose to pump CO2 in. It doesn't need to be air tight, you can let the gas vent out the top. CO2 is slightly heavier than normal air and won't dilute enough to prevent death if you just snap a cover on. I have euthanized a lot of rodents with no issues.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I do the same thing with my pinkies and fuzzies with one important (to me) difference. I have a CO2 tank and I put a puff of CO2 in the bag. If you get the mix right the CO2 acts as an anesthesia. I then evacuate all the air and freeze. I am not going to say that this is the most humane way to euthanize. The big problem is that baby rodents are pretty CO2 resistant and if you get the mix two high it can be painful. I have a CO2 chamber for larger rodents. Its just a high plastic tub with a lid. I put a small hole in the side near the bottom to insert a hose to pump CO2 in. It doesn't need to be air tight, you can let the gas vent out the top. CO2 is slightly heavier than normal air and won't dilute enough to prevent death if you just snap a cover on. I have euthanized a lot of rodents with no issues.

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Once I watched a local breeder put down a group of about 20 jumbo rats in a CO2 chamber. The rats were running around the tub and as he started the gas they slowed down and started to look drowsy, then they laid down, closed their eyes and it was done.
They did not seem distressed or in pain at all. Appeared to me like the most humane way I'd ever seen.

I Co2 hundreds at a time. To me, it's the most humane way to do it. Like stated above, they just kind of fall asleep. And, it's not messy, so the frozen rats look good as well..

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I don't know.. That does sound like it takes a little too long for me. I prefer it to be rather instant. I don't even want them to suffocate for a minute. I use the spinal/cranial separation.

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This is a good way. Fast, easy, non-messy.

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Originally Posted by jasbus

I Co2 hundreds at a time. To me, it's the most humane way to do it. Like stated above, they just kind of fall asleep. And, it's not messy, so the frozen rats look good as well..

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If I had hundreds to do at a time this would be the best way. But I don't.

I don't have the time to thaw out the larger rodents. I have a co2 chamber it's just more of a hassle when you have larger collections. Regardless of what methods you use people are going to pout and try and justify their process over the one you choose. As I said earlier it's to each his own. My rats get treated very well and out of a few hundred there are a few that would be close to "pet" status. It's ridiculous how you have to fight for your own opinion on an open forum. It does nothing but detour from the op.

Well, the reason(s) there are opinions are to find out what people are doing for a humane way of prekilling.

Give it enough time, and enough people talking non-chalantly about "how it's just a rat", etc.... and it will become an issue. Trust me, I own a pet store, and I get animal rights people in all the time. Lord forbid I have a hamster that was killed and partially eaten before I see it. We had a lady several months ago try to shut us down because we had a half eaten hamster in one of our cages.
Rodents eat rodents sometimes, what can you say?

It won't be much longer before they change the AWA laws and we'll all be criminals for feeding off rodents... As for now, rodents and fish are not covered under any law, and technically, you can do what ever you want to them. Not for the lack of ASPCA trying. You can see them coming, and I've had to literally run them out of my store before...
So, please for the good of all animal lovers and keepers out there, don't spread bad info on pre-killing and all that good stuff. It will come back to haunt all of us one day.

So I shouldn't express my opinion because people don't agree with methods such as cervical dislocation? I thought the point of a forum was for people to share their experiences and procedures? I'm not here to get in a pissing contest with anyone. That's exactly why I typically keep to myself on the boards.

I should add that I kill very few rodents since I only have 4 snakes. If I had more I would probably do c02 but I have watched videos of c02 and dry ice and my bag method looks more peaceful and takes the same time.

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Originally Posted by Gto_402

So I shouldn't express my opinion because people don't agree with methods such as cervical dislocation? I thought the point of a forum was for people to share their experiences and procedures? I'm not here to get in a pissing contest with anyone. That's exactly why I typically keep to myself on the boards.

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I'm not pissing with you, or at you... I'm simply stating that the CD of a rodent to some looks inhumane. Personally, I think it's a quick and easy way to kill them, but it just doesn't "look" or "feel" humane to the people I was talking about above.

I've had a petition in my town on me Co2'ing my rats...but, like I said, there are no laws in place, so basically, it was just handed to me with a few dozen signatures on it...

I'm just sayin. Seeing it from the front lines already....

I am ok with opinions and discussion of other methods on my thread, that's why I posted it lol
Its not like suffocating because they can still breathe, I leave a small amount of air in the bag. The 02 runs out and their breathing slows down and it looks like they are tired and go to sleep.

Sorry bro. It's just been a rough day. I apologize for coming off hostile. I understand what you are saying about PETA fans.

:gj:
No prob.

I approve of any method that is humane to the rat.

Personally I would THINK that suffacating in a plastic bag wouldn't be humane, but.... BUT.... I have not done so and from your description, it sounds just as humane as the CO2 gas.

Freezing them to death is inhumane in my opinion. Perhaps it's not as inhumane when they're pinkies, but freezing to death is painful.

Saying "It's just a rat" is a horrible thing. Especially when you think of how it looks to the general public. I mean... would you stab a rat slowly to death while it screams? After all, it's "just a rat" so who cares if it dies in pain? That's what a non-reptile keeper is going to think when you express no empathy what so ever to a living creature you are killing. It's the exact same mentality they see when someone beats a puppy to death and says "What? It's just a dog." We as reptile keepers MUST be aware of PR and how we present our image to outsiders. Appearing to be uncaring about the needed death of even a prey animal is a sure bet for the anti-pet crowd to use against us.

Yes, I kill rodents, and I eat meat, etc etc. But I do try to make sure it's killed humanely. Even the snakes kill quickly. I feed live a lot(to the pythons) and watching them hit and constrict, the rat is dead within seconds. Killing a rat by breaking it's neck is fast. CO2 is not painful when done properly. There are a lot of methods to kill your rodents humanely.

I wasn't meaning that any way of killing the rodents is ok. I should have better explained myself. I'm not ok at all with unnecessary suffering in any animal. When I said " just a rat" I meant it doesn't have to be an elaborate method just as long as the job is done. Lord I've caused a haywire mess lol.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I don't know.. That does sound like it takes a little too long for me. I prefer it to be rather instant. I don't even want them to suffocate for a minute. I use the spinal/cranial separation.

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x3

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Originally Posted by Gto_402

I wasn't meaning that any way of killing the rodents is ok. I should have better explained myself. I'm not ok at all with unnecessary suffering in any animal. When I said " just a rat" I meant it doesn't have to be an elaborate method just as long as the job is done. Lord I've caused a haywire mess lol.

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Thanks for clarifying.

We have to watch phrasing esp when non-reptile people could easily take something the wong way. It's a lot like people joking they'd feed their friend's cat to a python... WE know it's a joke, but non-reptile people are just as liable to run off and use it as a "quote right from their own mouth!" to prove we feed free kittens to all of our animals, probably right down to a leo.

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Originally Posted by Gto_402

I wasn't meaning that any way of killing the rodents is ok. I should have better explained myself. I'm not ok at all with unnecessary suffering in any animal. When I said " just a rat" I meant it doesn't have to be an elaborate method just as long as the job is done. Lord I've caused a haywire mess lol.

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As far as I have seen you are going to get a lot of support on this forum for Cervical Dislocation. Its a quick method and as or more human than any other. Certainly no complaints from me. I have tried cervical dislocation once with instruction from someone skilled at it. I failed and had to have the expert step in. That experience pretty much soured me on CD. That being said I wish it hadn't. It would be far easier than CO2 to dispatch a single mouse (My California King is the worst hunter I have ever seen, an average of 5 or more missed strikes before finally catching a foot or tail.) So for what its worth I am a big fan of CD when done correctly. I wish I could do it correctly. Until then a tank of CO2 purchased from my local welding supply store has served me well.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

As far as I have seen you are going to get a lot of support on this forum for Cervical Dislocation. Its a quick method and as or more human than any other. Certainly no complaints from me. I have tried cervical dislocation once with instruction from someone skilled at it. I failed and had to have the expert step in. That experience pretty much soured me on CD. That being said I wish it hadn't. It would be far easier than CO2 to dispatch a single mouse (My California King is the worst hunter I have ever seen, an average of 5 or more missed strikes before finally catching a foot or tail.) So for what its worth I am a big fan of CD when done correctly. I wish I could do it correctly. Until then a tank of CO2 purchased from my local welding supply store has served me well.

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I wasn't too great at it at first either. Maybe you could practice on dead rats? It really is super easy and quick once you learn what you're doing.

When I first tried CD started on a mouse. I really didn't like the technique that was explained on several different walk throughs that I had read. I tried the same method with a large rat and nearly lost a finger. I immediately went to my shop and make a "fork" out of 1/4" mild steel. It has a handle and two prongs on the end. Each prong sits on each side of the rodents skull and a hoop supports the base of the skull. This way no matter what as long as you have pressure on the fork the rodent can't run or turn. After it's pinned I grab them by the haunches, pull up and back. I should add the "fork" doesn't penetrate the animal in anyway. It's perfectly humane as long as it's done correctly. Where I think a lot of people fail is they don't/won't pull fast or hard enough. I will be sure to link a picture in this thread. After reading over my previous post I should add I do occasionally gas off large quanities of rodents. But if it's fewer than ten I'll CD. Sorry for the long post!

Here's the pictures of the fork I built. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...l/ef0079f4.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...l/fbeb8132.jpg
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...l/1626cd63.jpg

I'm going to make one at work, what a great idea. It takes away my fear of performing CD #

I will make mine like a 4 way tire iron with 4 different sizes and maybe sell them for 25 bucks lol out of stainless steel

I use my feeding thongs behind the cranium for a cervical dislocation.

Suffocating in a bag is not humane IMHO. CO2 does more than just suffocate, they lose consciousness much more quickly and basically go to sleep. Suffocating in a plastic bag = no go.

I don't Euthanize many rats but when I do I use co2
It cost me less than $50 to set up a chamber

Aluminum tank off of craiglist $35 ~ tub $3.50 ~ air hose and fittings $10
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/PICT6862.jpg

No CD for me ty

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Originally Posted by karls-snakes

I will make mine like a 4 way tire iron with 4 different sizes and maybe sell them for 25 bucks lol out of stainless steel

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I plan on making a few more that vary in size. Stainless would be nice but I used what was handy. Maybe I'll get around to it some day.