Thinking about getting one ... What do I need?

Hello everyone,

I am new to the site and ball pythons. I am thinking about getting one but I just wanted to ask you guys what I definitely need and any advice you could give me so that I can make an educated decision. A few questions that I can think of right off the bat are:

1) I noticed that there are several kinds of ball pythons ranging in price from $40 to $4000+. Any kinds that I should avoid? Are some more calm and friendly then others?

2) Is it typically bad to get them from stores like PetSmart etc?

3) If I went on a week vacation could it handle that without anyone there?

4) I am a little nervous about feeding them. How often do they eat? I've been reading that it's not too unusual for them to fast for a while and that's okay as long as they don't loose too much weight. Do I need a special scale or anything or do I just use like a bathroom scale lol?

I would appreciate it if you guys could address my concerns and give me any advice. I think that they're awesome, but I can't spend a fortune and I want to make sure that I can treat it right if I get one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orange Sunshine

Hello everyone,

I am new to the site and ball pythons. I am thinking about getting one but I just wanted to ask you guys what I definitely need and any advice you could give me so that I can make an educated decision. A few questions that I can think of right off the bat are:

1) I noticed that there are several kinds of ball pythons ranging in price from $40 to $4000+. Any kinds that I should avoid? Are some more calm and friendly then others?

Temperament is generally the same among morphs. Each snake has its own individual personality. The only difference is the color/genetics.


2) Is it typically bad to get them from stores like PetSmart etc?

Depends on your petsmart. They jack up prices though, so I would avoid it and try to find a local breeder or order online.

3) If I went on a week vacation could it handle that without anyone there?

Yes. There is a good bit of info about this on the forum, but I believe the general advice is to withhold food after a poo until the day before you leave, so that there will be little mess in the enclosure.

4) I am a little nervous about feeding them. How often do they eat? I've been reading that it's not too unusual for them to fast for a while and that's okay as long as they don't loose too much weight. Do I need a special scale or anything or do I just use like a bathroom scale lol?

Every 5-7 days. Get a gram scale.

I would appreciate it if you guys could address my concerns and give me any advice. I think that they're awesome, but I can't spend a fortune and I want to make sure that I can treat it right if I get one.

---

Okay cool, I appreciate the help! Could you point me in the right direction for online ordering? Also is it typically okay to get the enclosures, food, tank accessories from pet stores? Finally, what exactly do I need from day 1? What size tank? Heating pad? Sticks? What do you recommend? If I get one I don't want to deprive it of something it needs. If I can afford to spoil it I will, but what is absolutely necessary and what are some cool things I could get if money permits? Sorry for all of the questions, but I really want to know my stuff and not find out I did something horribly wrong after it's too late. I would never forgive myself.

Welcome to BP.net :colbert2:

Orange sunshine, from fl?

My basic list of needs:
20 gallon long tank (will be able to live in this size of tank for a while) with screen top and clips if its not a sliding screen top.
heating pad with some type of temp. control device (rheostat or thermostat)
2 identical hides
water bowl
bedding (I use aspen, avoid anything with pine or ceder in it)
thermometer/hygrometer (got a duel temp one with built in hygrometer at walmart for like $9)
And you can choose to decorate the cage with fake plants (check out a hobby store or even walmart's fake plants) and sticks are fine but make sure to treat it for bugs. They don't need it though since they are terrestrial (live on the ground) and not arboreal so are kinda clumsy.

Good place to start, you can find most of the answers to your questions here: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

If you're a visual person like me check out THIS THREAD from SGB_74. It was really helpful for me...

...or if your interested in an option for a glass enclosure, I made a quick video of how I did ours. I actually use a bigger Ultratherm heatpad and the black hide boxes from Reptile basics now so that ist he only thing I have changed since doing this video. Everything else is still the same. Nibs is growing and in shed again, so this setup is working out really well for me so far.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Sqzd9-HjI

I do want to add that the room temp stays in the upper 70's and that the video was more to show the glass tank setup but I had to brag a little on the changing table because it works and was my wife's idea...80)

Enclosure size is a bit of an issue the problem there is little snakes often do better in little enclosures and bigger ones in bigger so typically I'd recommend a small tub baby enclosure and then when the hides take over a mid sized tub. (shoe box size 13.25"x8"x4.5" or so... and mid sized 16"x11"x6") Then I personally would switch to a custom reptile enclosure like a vision or boaphile It also spreads the cost out.

You need hides small sized to fit the snake. heat source UTH (under Tank Heaters) are the easiest to begin with you will see flexwatt here a lot which is basically the same but comes in a roll and you have to wire it. It works well but for a single snake is not really practical.

The single MOST important item you MUST have is some sort of regulator. My advise is to buy the best you can I recommend a proportional unit (personally I like herpstat but the others helix and ve ecozone ect... are very good too) They regulate the temp of the heat pad to a constant temp on/off thermostats are 100% power and 0% and under some conditions will generate a spike in temps. Some will say you don't need it as it is overkill but all cold blooded animals temps are dead critical incorrect temps will lead to health issues.

I feel that a controller that you can set and walk away knowing that what you set is what you get is worth the extra cash it is only 110$ and is worth one vet visit.

Temperament is a tricky one I believe it is genetic but is unconnected to colour mutation. Almost no breeders have been breeding temperament with royals I think it is a good idea to get to know the breeder you choose to buy from before you do. talk to them and ask them help in picking out a snake for you. Look for one that is an aggressive feeder and when you handle it it either does not 'ball' up or come out and pokes around quickly.

Reading a snake is quite hard and takes a sharp eye. At the beginning look at the tongue. No tongue flicks is a good indicator of fear. The snake has no interest in its surroundings. A lot of tongue flicks is interest in the smells and things around it. Typically a good sign of a snake that will adjust well.

I don't stop feeding mine when I leave for a week I just give them an extra water dish and make sure things are clean and go. I do have a friend with keys whom keeps an eye on power loss during my absence so he can do something about the heat in case. That is it.

We use a 20 long ATM was $20 at petco on sale and just coevered it with a peice of Plexi with holes drilled in it keeps our temp and humidity great. As for buying at Petco do your research we got ours at petco and were able to contact the breeder and find out the lineage of our snake. The enclosure they were in was set up great heat and temps were great and the snakes were handled properly. How ever 12 miles up the street the other PETCO (the evil one) the snales were stuck in shed with 20% humidity the temp was a little low so I dont buy crap from that store and made a complaint. So I would be a good consumer and frequent or buy from a store that is taking care of the animals. Our Petco is a very nice store Clean with knowledgeable staff who care about the animals but I have seen and heard horro stories about other stores in the chain. BTW we got our snakle a wholesale 24.99 on sale so shop and get a healthy happy snake:) and enjoy him once his personality comes out. We had to name our Peek A Boo he love to play that game:banana:

Robie

Good advice from kitedemon.

I second on getting a tub instead of a tank, it's a LOT easier to regulate things in from the start and the professional enclosures or even a larger tub will be easier in the end as well.

You NEED a thermostat. To attach to the heat pad. As kitedemon said. A water bowl, two identical hides (you can make these out of old butter tubs for a baby, as long as the snake can touch 3 of the sides when inside to feel secure, or little dollar tree bowls), and paper towel/newspaper or cypress/aspen? bedding.

Also I would get a temp gun and one of those $10 accurite indoor/outdoor humidity and temp gauges so you can monitor your temps and humidity.

Wow, thanks for all of the replies! I know that there are care sheets and stuff but I'm the type of person that needs reassurance lol. Thanks for the welcome and yea I'm from Florida :). So you guys are saying that I shouldn't get like a 20 gallon tank, I should get a tub? When you say tub are you talking about like those green storage containers? Also, being that I'm in the middle of "you got a purdy mouth" Florida, there aren't many breeders that I'm aware of or that I would trust. So pet stores can be OKAY, but just don't pay through the nose and look for signs of infection etc? I would look for nose bubbles, wheezing, etc? If I saw mites is that horrible or common? After this post I'm going to check out those care sheets more lol.

We're talking about the little sterilite tubs. They are usually white and see through, but there are some opaque ones. I like the partially clear ones, I can take a peek inside and check if everything is all good before disturbing the animal opening the tub. Depending on the size snake you get depends on the tub size. Like, my adult male is in a 41 qt and he has plenty of room(that size is usually used for adult females who get larger than males) but people start babies in much smaller tubs

I know there are a few good breeders in different areas of florida, if you're willing to drive/have them ship you could get a nice quality healthy baby snake!

Pet stores can be both good and bad--I don't recommend beginners buying from florida because it's harder to tell a sick animal from a healthy one. First off pet stores over charge(I've seen $180 for a $40 dollar normal) and then if it's sick you also add on hundreds in vet bills OR just a dead snake! Oy!! I know I thought I could tell a healthy snake at first, but now that I have experience I can see much more subtle signs and know they are sick before they are REALLY sick!

Mites are a pain to get rid of, but the problem is you likely won't even see them if the snake has them! Then you get them home and see dead little bugs in the water bowl, and then you realize they are there! If you do get a snake with mites, pick up "Provent a Mite"..Best stuff out there. Got rid of all the mites my snakes had instantly after months of trying with other stuff!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by purplemuffin

We're talking about the little sterilite tubs. They are usually white and see through, but there are some opaque ones. I like the partially clear ones, I can take a peek inside and check if everything is all good before disturbing the animal opening the tub. Depending on the size snake you get depends on the tub size. Like, my adult male is in a 41 qt and he has plenty of room(that size is usually used for adult females who get larger than males) but people start babies in much smaller tubs

I know there are a few good breeders in different areas of florida, if you're willing to drive/have them ship you could get a nice quality healthy baby snake!

Pet stores can be both good and bad--I don't recommend beginners buying from florida because it's harder to tell a sick animal from a healthy one. First off pet stores over charge(I've seen $180 for a $40 dollar normal) and then if it's sick you also add on hundreds in vet bills OR just a dead snake! Oy!! I know I thought I could tell a healthy snake at first, but now that I have experience I can see much more subtle signs and know they are sick before they are REALLY sick!

Mites are a pain to get rid of, but the problem is you likely won't even see them if the snake has them! Then you get them home and see dead little bugs in the water bowl, and then you realize they are there! If you do get a snake with mites, pick up "Provent a Mite"..Best stuff out there. Got rid of all the mites my snakes had instantly after months of trying with other stuff!

---

Okay, I think I've pretty much got it now, but I have a few more questions:

1) Is this the container that you guys are talking about? They're safe to have a heating pad under? http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProdu...=252&section=1.

2) If I wanted to get fancy with the water bowl and hides, what should i get? I saw the Habba Huts online, are they good? If so, what size should I get for a baby/jv? I would appreciate some links so I know I'm getting the right thing.

3) Is there enough room in there for the snake lol? It looks like pretty tight quarters between the hides and water and all that.

4) As far as temperature, humidity, and thermostat, whats the most cost effective? You guys said the one at walmart works good?

5) What size heat pad would I use for a 15 quart tub? 4x5? 6x9? Also, would it be bad to use a human heating pad if it has a temperature adjuster built in?

6) I read that you can use a soldering gun to make the holes in the tub. How many holes? Where do I put the holes, does it matter? Is one way better then another?

7) So just to be absolutely certain, this setup would be good?

A 15 quart tub with aspen as the substrate, 2 hides (1 on cold side one on hot), a decent sized water dish, a thermometer/hydrometer, and a thermostat? Am I missing anything?

It would be a really big help if someone could just give me a link with everything already added to the cart that I would need. Like I said, I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible, but I don't want to torture it. If I can't afford it then I won't get it.

1, Yes that is a great hatchling tub. I personally prefer custom enclosures but little snakes do better in little spaces save the money buy a tub to start with and when the snake hits 1000 gms you can make the decision of what kind of permeant home you want and can afford. Starting with a 20 gal is ok it is a bit big but if you went 10gal in 5 month you would be buying a bigger one and then a bigger one still as the snake grows A good thermostat is better than 3 tanks.

I usually recommend buying hides once you have seen the snake, for scale they should be small I ideally the snake will contact the hides on three sides at once. Little snakes grow really fast crazy fast so again a cheap plastic container might be better to start with as they tend to out grow hides in months. Up to you I started with the exo terra smallest hide for my first snake he was in it for about a month and then wore it (came out of 2 or 3 sides) for a few more weeks then I got a medium and large and extra large for him.

Yes it is tight snakes generally like to see but to to be seen. Correct temps being first priority but security being second and humidity third. The tight quarters add to security and it is not for long the snake will out grow that first tub quickly but jumping too far ahead and going big straight away can work but takes more care and skill. My opinion is to get the animal established and feeding and starting to trust you before going big with the enclosure. My older snakes are in quite large enclosures but they all spent time in the tub to get used to my home sounds and smells and me, and the way I feed and do things. Then they moved to large open enclosures (10-18 months after arrival) That also spreads out expenses so buying high end gear isn't such a problem. It is easy to say 200$ snake, 10$ enclosure 120$ T-stat and 20$ heat than adding 200$ enclosure in the mix. See my point?

For a thermostat in a plastic tub under unstable room conditions I'd say a proportional one is the way to go entry level ones are 105-130$ there are cheaper ones but they often have issues with the tubs in coolish rooms. If you go on off the cheaper ones I'd highly recommend the tank. In the end there isn't much cost difference. Tank+cheaper t-stat tub+expensive t-stat is close to the same. There is likely to be a lot of debate with this but a search though older posts will prove this out tubs and on off have more issues.

I don't like the accurites they are no better than the others on the market and they are big and clunky to use. I usually recommend the cheapest thermometer with a probe you can get. (I paid 1.07 for mine on ebay) buy 3 or 5 of them and place the together and use the ones that measure the closest the ones that are off mark them and use them for something else. I also like hygrometers that are designed for humidors. They generally are more accurate and can be adjusted when wrong. They all go wrong over time the test (salt test) is easy and accurate so you can correct the humidor ones. I like the western instruments analogue ones the best cheap and very accurate. In analogue dial types a metal card is a must and I'd add a calibration screw on the back is also a must.

For the little tub the 4x5 is fine. NO a human pad is way too hot! for it to be warm to you it needs to be over 96º this is too hot for your snake to properly digest food. Most do not adjust lower than body temps.

Soldering guns work a sharp drill bit will too. Don't push too hard. ventilation is a bit of a personal crusade with me. I like more than less I don't want to use exhaled breath to increase the humidity. I use holes lower on one end and higher on the other with no holes in the lid. typically low holes over the warm end and high on the cool. It promotes good air flow. How many is a bit of experimentation so start with some and you can add more later. This is where it is good to have a week or more to tinker with things. remember ambient humidity is one thing but inside the hides will always be a bit higher.

It sound like that is about it. I might add a scale as weight is a good indicator of growth and general health. A note book or something to track weight feedings and as many other notes as you can think of records can help solve issues later on. I like to use two thermometers one in each hide. You might add a plant or something to generate 'sky' cover little snakes preyed upon by birds so a plant to provide some over growth sometimes helps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

For a thermostat in a plastic tub under unstable room conditions I'd say a proportional one is the way to go entry level ones are 105-130$ there are cheaper ones but they often have issues with the tubs in coolish rooms. If you go on off the cheaper ones I'd highly recommend the tank. In the end there isn't much cost difference. Tank+cheaper t-stat tub+expensive t-stat is close to the same. There is likely to be a lot of debate with this but a search though older posts will prove this out tubs and on off have more issues.

---

Holy crap! $125 for a thermostat!? That was way more then I anticipated. Is that absolutely necessary? Also, could I get away with the walmart thermometer? Lastly, I am really concerned with the holes. Could you give me a ballpark estimate lol? What do you do personally? What size holes and generally how many? I don't want to skimp but there's no way I could swing a $125 thermostat. Someone pointed this out: http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...tat-150-watts/. Would that do the job?

That is a rheostat it will need to be adjusted every time the room temp changes. They work really well in absolutely stable room temps. It is for you to decide what your room is like. Generally speaking they are not useful out side a snake room that has dedicated heating and cooling to maintain constant temps.

No a proportional is not necessary it is the most versatile and will work exactly as expected under the most varied conditions. I think the herpstat lists at 104 or so. You could go with a ranco, or johnson they are in the 50$ range and the hydrofarm is 40$ or so all three like semi stable room temps and don't do really well in rooms that are not too cooler than the set point. I'd suggest that if you go that route especially with the hydrofarm then attach the uth to a sheet of glass and then place the tub on that to absorb the possible spikes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

That is a rheostat it will need to be adjusted every time the room temp changes. They work really well in absolutely stable room temps. It is for you to decide what your room is like. Generally speaking they are not useful out side a snake room that has dedicated heating and cooling to maintain constant temps.

No a proportional is not necessary it is the most versatile and will work exactly as expected under the most varied conditions. I think the herpstat lists at 104 or so. You could go with a ranco, or johnson they are in the 50$ range and the hydrofarm is 40$ or so all three like semi stable room temps and don't do really well in rooms that are not too cooler than the set point. I'd suggest that if you go that route especially with the hydrofarm then attach the uth to a sheet of glass and then place the tub on that to absorb the possible spikes.

---

Okay, I see what you're saying. It looks like a thermostat would be much better and more convenient. I'm not sure if I have a piece of glass ... Is there any alternatives? I thought I read somewhere that tile works? Also as far as the thermostat, what would you suggest for me? It will be for 1 ball python inside a plastic tub, so I don't need anything fancy. I just want something cost effective that will get the job done. Also, whats up with the Acurite thermometer/hydrometer? Is it any good? I saw a $9 analog version, would that work or would it be better to get a digital version? Basically I'm just trying to get the most cost effective setup that I can. I have a limited budget and I just want to get what is absolutely necessary for now.

The accurite is awesome .. It's $10 at lowes. Just get that.

Pet stores jack up their prices no matter where you go. There are lots of breeders in Florida, you just have to drive a little bit and I'm sure they will meet you somewhere.

I have a thermostat from big apple herp ... its an off/on type but I have no issues with it. It was $45. But the thermostat is where you want to spend the money. You don't really need anything else too expensive.

I don't like the accurites. I had three and the best of the bunch was poor. (almost 2 degrees temp off and close to 10% humidity incorrect) Basically in instrument land there are cheap and accurate. Accurate is expensive much more than a 100$ T stat. Cheap ones have almost across the board +/- 2ºF meaning that the manufacturer expects them to vary off the line by as much as 2 degrees. One might be perfect the next one could be perfect. I suggest the cheap digital thermometer and a hygrometer that is calibratable. The analogue ones typically sold for the reptile trade are very poor they have a paper face. The face can be in the wrong position and can also stop the needle from moving metal face cards are needed. If you go on ebay and fine a cheap digital one they are usually quite bad as well but if you buy 5 the chances of getting two that are the same (and likely accurate) is fairly good I'd say the same for accurites but at the price they are you could buy a herpstat that is actually a very accurate thermometer as the probe.


I am afraid this is a case of you get what you pay for. I guess the hydrofarm is ok but the probes are terribly inaccurate I do instrument calibration in my work and I was asked to test 3 hydrofarms they all read differently buy one degree and one two degrees and the lowest one is is still too high by 1 degree. If you go that route make sure you have an accurate thermometer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

I am afraid this is a case of you get what you pay for. I guess the hydrofarm is ok but the probes are terribly inaccurate I do instrument calibration in my work and I was asked to test 3 hydrofarms they all read differently buy one degree and one two degrees and the lowest one is is still too high by 1 degree. If you go that route make sure you have an accurate thermometer.

---

I'm getting a Hydrofarm T-Stat(Should be here today or tomorrow) finally, and though I trust you that they do fluctuate, but the hotside temp requirements are 88-92*F, right? So if you set it at 90, it should fluctuate between those two temperatures, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fluffpuffgerbil

I'm getting a Hydrofarm T-Stat(Should be here today or tomorrow) finally, and though I trust you that they do fluctuate, but the hotside temp requirements are 88-92*F, right? So if you set it at 90, it should fluctuate between those two temperatures, right?

---

Yeah that's what I was thinking myself. Even if it does fluctuate it's gotta be better then a dimmer right? I don't want to be a jerk and torture the snake, but lets get real, a $100 thermostat for a $50 snake just doesn't make sense to me.

When I got my full grown ball python I bought a 64 qrt sterilite it worked really well, and though she hasn't grown any I wanted to upgrade my baby's cage. I had originaly bought one of those 20gal long cages and to be honest I hate them. They are heavy and harder to clean. I ended up getting a 106 qrt sterilite for my big girl for like $12 (i paid $8 for the 64 qrt) if they are a little smaller like closer to a hatchling and you feel the 64 qrt is too big what you can do is pack it that way it has a tighter seeming smaller enclosure.

The one thing I hate about sterilite is the heating pads don't stick them that well but I fix that with electrical tape. This is good actually because

1. when I need to clean the tube I just take the heat pad off
2. if I need to transport my snakes I can just remove the heat pads empty the water and take with there whole enclosure with me. this I love because it seems less stressful for the snake and less stress on me. like when I go do like education shows its easier.

here is some pics of what I am talking about
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...debyside-1.jpg

my baby's enclosure. she is at about 2 1/4 feet right now
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ndynewhome.jpg

and my big girls enclosure, she is 3.5 feet right now
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...busnewhome.jpg

Most people here spent more than $50 on their snakes.. (more like $100+). No matter the price on the animal, you have to be willing to properly care for it. Look around and see if you can find a thermostat in your price range.

I only spent $20 on my snake, but I would be willing to buy a Herpstat at some point, but I had to get what I could for her in a day since the expo was the very next day. I only had $120 to spend for heat pad,hides,dimmer,waterdish, and something to control temps with. So I got a $18 dimmer for her. I was expecting to pay more for a BP, at least $25 for a normal male, but I liked the female's colours and size better so I went with a female. The prices were from $20-$40 for the normals(male or female, average was $25 for male, $30 for female) but this one was my favourite and happened to be the $20 one.
Anyway, for the first several days I had her, I kept her tub (I use a 16q/15L sterilite for her) on my computer desk so I could keep constant watch on her temps. They still fluctuate and get a little too cold at night, but they're a little more stable now and she's in my room now.
I still check on her temps a bunch though. I can rest a little better once my thermostat comes, hopefully tomorrow.(Her hotside was just at 93.9*F when I went to put her back in her cage!) Dimmers I suppose are fine temporarily, but Thermostats I'm sure are just so much more reliable from what I've read on here.

I appreciate all of the help so far, but I seem to be having trouble finding a ball python now lol. I am near Panama City in Norther Florida. They have 2 pet shops in the immediate area and they are trying to charge $80 for them. How can I find breeders or another place to buy them besides PetShart? I have been looking online and have had no luck unless I want to take a 3 hour drive ... What do you guys suggest? I've seen a few companies that sell them online but it's a little steep. If I went with an online vendor, who would you recommend? I would appreciate any help.

Speaking for myself, the cost of the animal is not relevant, you agree to take on the responsibility to care to the best of your ability for it or don't get it in the first place. This is my moral compass not yours I see what you are saying but if the animal is 10$ or 10 000$ the conditions it is kept under stay the same, as close to ideal as you can manage.

that said the equipment you use to get to ideal is not relevant getting there is. This threads sprite is about what will make that easier and what will I need I have not though of. It is one of opinions from people whom understand what is available.

My professional job deals with sensitive equipment and part of that job it to calibrate them and make sure they work reliably. I do a lot of testing to find the right gear for my work place and to find and solve design flaws before they cause problems.

I started to do consulting doing exactly this. i have been hired (and agreed not to relay any details of whom what or why) to test hydrofarm thermostats for use as a single component. Tests are still continuing but the relevant tests are mostly done. I can explain some of my results.

The accuracy of the probe is very poor.
http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photo...CA_9509-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

This is a photo to show what I mean this is after 10 hours in stable room temps. the control thermometer (silver) is a traceable thermocouple type and is spec'd at 0.1ºC error it is re-checked yearly.

26.9ºC is 80.42ºF this is the correct temperature. the hydrofarms reading 81.6ºF, 82.4ºF and 83.8ºF is not very accurate these are the 'new and improved accuracy' version and came as samples from the supplier.

the next part is to check the probe response. The hydrofarms (all) were set to 85ºF and then the probe was cooled and heated to check when the units came on and off. Started heating at 84.3ºF avg. and shut off at 86.7ºF not stellar but acceptable.

The units were then connected to a heater and probe placed directly on the heat the ambient room temp was set and stabilized at 60ºF and the units set point to 90ºF An accurate thermometer was connected to a data logger and the test ran for 24 hours. The average high temp was recorded at 113ºF for the total period and all 3 units. The average low was recorded as 85.7ºF This is a spike induced by tough conditions and slow probe response.

the test repeated at 70ºF ambient temps and the range reduced 107ºF max and 88ºF. The test repeated again at 80ºF and the range reduced again to, 99ºF and 87.8º.

I have tested a johnson (not as carefully as I was just curious) in a similar way the on off points were closer and the max and min temps recorded on the heat element were closer but it still was not great. this is a 'torture test' to find how bad bad is.

The advise I have based on this and my experience with other on off units is this.

Avoid direct heat (heater directly attached to enclosure) and or place the heater on something that is slow to heat and slow to cool (simply something that is heavy, weighs a lot.)

Avoid using the unit with great differences between the set point and ambient temps.

It would likely work really well with a rack where the heater is fastened to a shelf and the tub sits with a small air space between them (the 'rails' found on most tubs) and or in a regulated room. Used with a tank or like in a semi regulated room.

The use with the heater stuck on the bottom of a plastic rubbermaid tub or sterilite in regular room conditions (65ºF to 73ºF) it is possible to come close to replicating the results I got in my test and see spikes inside the enclosure. It is quite likely to stress the snake (guessing) and that result in failure to eat and possibly other health issues.

Quite some time ago I started testing one of my herpstats, The probe accuracy was very very good so close to mine that the error it has makes the test not worth reporting basically as accurate as I am capable of testing. The heating test gave a max and min less than a degree apart and I stopped there as there is no point it continuing. This is why I recommend a proportional units, I own herpstats (4 pros and a 2 and hd) but the others (ve ecozone, habistat) use similar technology so I'd expect the practical heat to be so close to make no difference. The differences is fit and finish, set up menus and extra features.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orange Sunshine

I appreciate all of the help so far, but I seem to be having trouble finding a ball python now lol. I am near Panama City in Norther Florida. They have 2 pet shops in the immediate area and they are trying to charge $80 for them. How can I find breeders or another place to buy them besides PetShart? I have been looking online and have had no luck unless I want to take a 3 hour drive ... What do you guys suggest? I've seen a few companies that sell them online but it's a little steep. If I went with an online vendor, who would you recommend? I would appreciate any help.

---

Have you tried craigslist under community, pets. in know a lot of the times I cand some going for good price from local breeders her in houston, might be worth a try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crepers86

Have you tried craigslist under community, pets. in know a lot of the times I cand some going for good price from local breeders her in houston, might be worth a try.

---

Yeah I checked it out, unfortunately I didn't see anything. I'm in a pretty remote part of Florida so I'm not surprised. I was hoping there was a classifieds website of some sort, but I'm not seeing much. Looks like it's down to an online vendor because I don't trust PetSmart. Can anyone please recommend some places I should check out? I don't want to put you guys on the spot, but if you know some places that you've dealt with or heard good things about I'm all ears. I don't know who to trust ...

@kitedemon, I appreciate the help. Now I'm not sure what to do though ... I can't afford to spend much over $50 for a temperature controller, so what would you recommend that I get? I was planning on the Hydrofarm, but now I'm not too sure after your post. I don't care if it's digital or pretty or whatever else, I just want it to work good. I'm almost reluctant to get a ball now ... I don't want to hurt it or neglect it, but I just can't swing $100+ on a thermostat right now. Would something like this be good? - http://www.petco.com/product/108340/...ure+controller

Contact one of these breeders and see if they will meet you somewhere to deliver after inquiring if they have any normals (most will have them):

http://floridareptileroom.com/index.php

http://www.grazianireptiles.com/

http://goldcoastreptiles.com/


Plus on the last website they have a list of shows you can go to ... there is one on the 28th in Florida. I don't know where you are in Florida, but I'm sure you can figure something out.

Orange Sunshine, I can't say much more about the Hydrofarm except I've already bought it and it should be here tomorrow and I plan on using it.(Though I'll keep an eye on temps again until they settle) But from what I've heard from other people on here, they use it and they like it(the hydrofarm) and have recommended it to others. They wouldn't recommend it if it didn't work I'm sure.
However the couple things I've heard about the Zilla T-stat weren't good and I think I've heard the hydrofarm works better than the Zilla and it's like,....$20 cheaper?

(I honestly have hated almost everything by Zilla heat related. When I Was getting stuff for a bearded dragon, after reading stuff on the dragon forum I was pretty much against almost every Zilla.

I am not saying don't use it just understand the limitations of it. That is all. Test it your self it isn't hard and you can see what it does and how it works.

I have yet to have a zilla product that was worth keeping, forget using. I don't like anything they make. I have an alife t-stat around here someplace it is not worth the 25¢ the plastic housing costs. I believe the alife and zilla are the same.

The shipping with ordering online will almost wind up being the same as a local shop, but you're better off with paying the shipping and getting a superior animal.