Feeding in a seperate tank

I have a separate tank in which to feed my BP. I don't want to handle him before or after, though. Should I just put him in the feeding tank and leave him for a few hours before trying? Maybe put him in at the same time that I put the mouse out to thaw? What about getting him back into his home tank? How do you do it?

My boys handles their bp and then puts him in the feeding tank. After the mouse is about midway down we carry the whole tank to his home and gently place him in his tank. We have not had problems at all.

If you're concerned about it just keep him in his own tank when you feed. I know there are a wide variety of reasons people use a seperate tub but if you don't move him you won't have this problem. Plus, from what I've read on here, you run the risk of regurdge.

hey jedi, is your smilie lettin one go? :rofl: very cute...

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Originally Posted by blueberrypancakes

hey jedi, is your smilie lettin one go? :rofl: very cute...

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hahahaha...yep.

Personally, I feed my BP in a seperate tub. The way I do it is on feeding night, I will open his enclosure door, put his feeding tub in front of it and he will crawl out and into the tub on his own. I then take him and the tub into the bathroom where I feed him ( My wife does not want to see it.) Then once I am done filming him eat and he has completely swallowed the rat/rats and re-adjusted his jaw he will raise his head up to the top of the tub, so I put the lid back on it and take him back into the room where his enclosure is. I then open his enclosure door, place the tub in front of it, remove the lid, tilt it on a 45degree angle and he will crawl back out and into his enclosure on his own. So I do not need to handle him at all for the process, it has taken me a couple months to get him into this routine. I don't feed him in his enclosure because of substrate, swimming pool, water bowl, hides, fountain and other decorations.
I used to just reach in and get hime, put him in the feeding tub then once it was over I would pick him back up and place him in his enclosure, but I did not like doing this because I felt bad picking him up after he ate, so that is why I do it the way I do now.
Pics below are of the different steps just for a more visual/interesting post. :)

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...6/100_4023.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...6/100_4035.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...6/100_4043.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...4/100_3966.jpg

so i feed in a separate cage/tank typically only for the really aggressive snakes i have owned but it is a good habit to get into if you can. I would say place the snake that is to be feed in the feeding tank about 5-10 min before you present them the food. Also it helps if there is a way to make it a very habit/patterned type even. example i used a large rubbermaid with snap on lid tub that WAS NOT see through. I would open the lid and present the food. and never close it after that. this way opening of the feed tub was a trigger(pattern and routine) of when food was coming not when the lid of the housing tank/tub was opened.

once they are done eating you can simply place them back just be careful of where the food is in their body and support them correctly. I did this with the Burm I had because the feed response was crazy and I was tired of it constantly trying to eat me every time i opened the lid to the housing pen. It will take them a bit to adjust and understand the routine but worth it if you they are tough to handle because of feed response.

Personally, I have never seen a reason to feed is a separate area. The idea that a snake can associate opening their enclosure to food is a myth.

The only reason to do that separetely I can think of is if you house multiple snakes in one enclosure, but that is something only true experts should even attempt.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Personally, I have never seen a reason to feed is a separate area. The idea that a snake can associate opening their enclosure to food is a myth.

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I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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Well, one example is I handle way more often then I feed, I feed on a certain day and don't handle at all, and when I do handle I use hand sanitizer before I handle but not at all when I am feeding. So I guess they get used to that pattern.

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Originally Posted by RetiredJedi

Well, one example is I handle way more often then I feed, I feed on a certain day and don't handle at all, and when I do handle I use hand sanitizer before I handle but not at all when I am feeding. So I guess they get used to that pattern.

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sent would work as a way to train a certain response. so I can see where that would work. plus you dont handle on feeding day so that is another part to the pattern.

I personally feed mine in their cages, all of them including my boa. When I just had one BP I did feed in a box. I also almost got tagged several times trying to get Lily out of the box and back into her cage. It seems like there have been some pretty good suggestions to avoid this though. When I did feed in a box I would put the snake in and then put the food in.

Also feeding in a seperate tub cuts down on having to remove items from the original enclosure, and no worry about the snake ingesting substrate or anything like that when fed in an empty tub.

As an example, could you imagine feeding in this enclosure? It would be a pain.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...7/100_3121.jpg

When I feed live, I use a separate enclosure, that is a lot taller and longer than the tubs they live in. It makes it easier to watch and make sure they do not get bitten, as well as give some extra room for shy feeders. I rarely feed live anymore, but did for quite some time.

My technique is to let the snake sit in the feeding bin for a few minutes and get a little comfortable, then feed. After they eat I let them sit, and when they've let the food settle a bit, they start to look around for a way out, and this is when I transport them back, making sure to support (but not squeeze!) where their food is. I have never had a problem with regurg. Just don't take them out *immediately* after they swallow their food and you should be fine.

That being said, I feed F/t normally, and right in their tubs, without ever having an unwarranted feeding response. I think it really depends on your snake. They are all different.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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I can only see it happening if the only time you ever open the cage is to feed. But if that's the only time you ever open the cage, why even have a snake? As long as you handle your snake in a normal way and don't smell like a rat, odd of you getting bitten are low, especially with a BP.

I used to feed all my snakes out of cage, but my ball took FOREVER. So I just started feeding in the cage. I notice no difference in behavior. I also don't think that the small amount of handling required to move the snake back into his cage is going to affect him. Thus being said, that only includes lifting him up and putting him back into the cage. Don't grab the lump from the meal either.

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Originally Posted by Jaxx

Also feeding in a seperate tub cuts down on having to remove items from the original enclosure, and no worry about the snake ingesting substrate or anything like that when fed in an empty tub.

As an example, could you imagine feeding in this enclosure? It would be a pain.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...7/100_3121.jpg

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You don't have to worry about your snake ingesting substrate anyway - so that's a moot point.

As for them learning to associate the opening of their enclosure with feeding - maybe if that's the only time you interacted with them....and I stress maybe.

But in 30 years of keeping snakes I've never had an issue with snakes associating opening the tub/door with food. There are species I keep in pairs and must feed separately - now those snakes have bit me when I go to move them after their meals, but never upon opening the door.

I'm just in awe of all you people who have these amazingly intelligent snakes that do things mine don't - like have issues ingesting substrate, become blood thirsty biting machines when the door is opened, display cognitive learning behaviors, etc.

I have a serious question for all you separate tubbers:

How is it that your snakes are smart enough to associate the opening of the door with food - especially when you also open the door to clean, change water, cuddle and stroke them, etc. but magically don't correlate the feeding tub with food? Especially since that's all the feeding tub is used for - feeding.

How you feed your snakes is up to you, but you all seem to be going to an unnecessary hassle in an effort to head off a non-existant problem.

At some point you may move beyond ball pythons and might find out the hard way that hungry snakes should not be moved before and after their meals.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

You don't have to worry about your snake ingesting substrate anyway - so that's a moot point.

As for them learning to associate the opening of their enclosure with feeding - maybe if that's the only time you interacted with them....and I stress maybe.

But in 30 years of keeping snakes I've never had an issue with snakes associating opening the tub/door with food. There are species I keep in pairs and must feed separately - now those snakes have bit me when I go to move them after their meals, but never upon opening the door.

I'm just in awe of all you people who have these amazingly intelligent snakes that do things mine don't - like have issues ingesting substrate, become blood thirsty biting machines when the door is opened, display cognitive learning behaviors, etc.

I have a serious question for all you separate tubbers:

How is it that your snakes are smart enough to associate the opening of the door with food - especially when you also open the door to clean, change water, cuddle and stroke them, etc. but magically don't correlate the feeding tub with food? Especially since that's all the feeding tub is used for - feeding.

How you feed your snakes is up to you, but you all seem to be going to an unnecessary hassle in an effort to head off a non-existant problem.

At some point you may move beyond ball pythons and might find out the hard way that hungry snakes should not be moved before and after their meals.

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I never said that my snake injested substrate, I just said it would cut down on the chance of it by feeding in a seperate tub.
Also, I take my BP out of his enclosure every day to spend time with him and have never been bitten or striked at. I don't know how much more proof you need other then the pic I posted of him coming out of his enclosure and going into the feeding tub on his own to proove what I said.(Not that I really care if you believe it or not). Like any other animal it will learn a routine if you stick to it. I started off by openning the door, putting the small vented rat carrier in the enclosure with him, then moved it out of the enclosure, then placed it in the feeding tub. At this point he knew where the food was and from there associated the door openning and the tub being placed in front of it with supper time. If none of your snakes have ever learned any routines, then I don't know what to say to that. I am sure that because you have kept snakes for 30 years you know much more about them then me. All I can say is, this is what mine does and if you think it's not natural or impossible or whatever else you are implying, you are more then welcome to your opinion or in your case possibly personal fact, I am not saying anything about any other snake,I am speaking solely of mine and the way he acts.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

You don't have to worry about your snake ingesting substrate anyway - so that's a moot point.

As for them learning to associate the opening of their enclosure with feeding - maybe if that's the only time you interacted with them....and I stress maybe.

But in 30 years of keeping snakes I've never had an issue with snakes associating opening the tub/door with food. There are species I keep in pairs and must feed separately - now those snakes have bit me when I go to move them after their meals, but never upon opening the door.

I'm just in awe of all you people who have these amazingly intelligent snakes that do things mine don't - like have issues ingesting substrate, become blood thirsty biting machines when the door is opened, display cognitive learning behaviors, etc.

I have a serious question for all you separate tubbers:

How is it that your snakes are smart enough to associate the opening of the door with food - especially when you also open the door to clean, change water, cuddle and stroke them, etc. but magically don't correlate the feeding tub with food? Especially since that's all the feeding tub is used for - feeding.

How you feed your snakes is up to you, but you all seem to be going to an unnecessary hassle in an effort to head off a non-existant problem.

At some point you may move beyond ball pythons and might find out the hard way that hungry snakes should not be moved before and after their meals.

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+1,000,000:D
I myself started out feeding in a separate tub several years ago and the only time I experienced any negative attitude from my snake was during this time because he knew tub time was feeding time so he was in that mode. As mentioned above, if you are interacting with your snake more then just feeding time then it's not going to associate you with food. Only once you plop the prey in and they pick up the scent,heat, movement.
No troubles whatsoever once I switched to feeding in the enclosure and I remove a thing our two each time myself just for more room. Really how hard is it to pick up a thing our two out of the enclosure? I could understand this being an issue if you have snake numbers in the double digits but most people have rack systems and minimal objects in the enclosure by then anyway. Also,i have always used aspen bedding and just recently switched to cypress mulch and have never had a single problem with substrate ingestion! Just my .02:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Jaxx

I never said that my snake injested substrate, I just said it would cut down on the chance of it by feeding in a seperate tub.
Also, I take my BP out of his enclosure every day to spend time with him and have never been bitten or striked at. I don't know how much more proof you need other then the pic I posted of him coming out of his enclosure and going into the feeding tub on his own to proove what I said.(Not that I really care if you believe it or not). Like any other animal it will learn a routine if you stick to it. I started off by openning the door, putting the small vented rat carrier in the enclosure with him, then moved it out of the enclosure, then placed it in the feeding tub. At this point he knew where the food was and from there associated the door openning and the tub being placed in front of it with supper time. If none of your snakes have ever learned any routines, then I don't know what to say to that. I am sure that because you have kept snakes for 30 years you know much more about them then me. All I can say is, this is what mine does and if you think it's not natural or impossible or whatever else you are implying, you are more then welcome to your opinion or in your case possibly personal fact, I am not saying anything about any other snake,I am speaking solely of mine and the way he acts.

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It's almost like you kinda read what I said, but didn't.

Re-read my post again, then read your response and then maybe you can tell me why one jives so badly with the other.

Pm sent. As not to derail this thread.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

I can only see it happening if the only time you ever open the cage is to feed. But if that's the only time you ever open the cage, why even have a snake? As long as you handle your snake in a normal way and don't smell like a rat, odd of you getting bitten are low, especially with a BP.

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Like I said I only had to do it with the Burm I had because it had a very strong feed response. additionally the animal was a rescue and had never really gotten use to handling, so there was a need to "train." and as stated only for those animals who were a bit trouble some.

I believe that snakes learn to recognise smells and sounds and become accustomed to them. Snake behaviour is very simple there is directed and instinct.

The directed behaviour is exploring and investigating the type that you see having a snake out being handled.

feeding is instinctive behaviour, nobody home upstairs. Entering feeding mode requires set of triggers, smell, need, security, on and on. If they are not present the animal will simply not enter feeding mode. Some species enter feeding mode very fast some don't royals don't. I don't think it is necessary with royals to feed in a separate container. I also don't feel that unless you have some trigger present that a royal would enter feeding mode just by opening a door. I have some seriously aggressive feeders but have never had even so much as a strike position on anything other than feeding evening.

The scent of rat in the air and the vibrations of the hair dryer and opening seem to be enough trigger for mine. I often do water bowls while rats are thawing and have never been struck even then. I have been when I forgot the ziplock baggie that had last nights meal on top of an enclosure the next evening during a spot clean however. Scent, heat, movement, vibration these are clear triggers.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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And conversely - why couldn't they get used to the pattern and routine of being moved to a separate enclosure on feeding day and be just as likely to bite when you move them than as if you fed in their own enclosure?

I feed over 50 ball pythons a week in their enclosures. I've never been mistaken for food. Well, OK, once I was mistaken for food, and that's because I was stupid and wasn't thinking about the fact that I was trying to locate a dead rodent by opening up enclosures in the exact same order as I do on feeding day, which triggered a feed response.

There's no need to feed ball pythons in separate feeding enclosures, other than just allowing the owner to have a false sense of avoiding a strike. Setting up a routine of feeding in a separate enclosure is just as likely (if not more likely) to elicit a feeding response. More so, because moving to the separate enclosure is only done on feeding day, whereas, I'm going into tubs every single day, not just on feeding day, so they aren't conditioned to associate the opening of the tubs as only being for feeding.

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Originally Posted by Jaxx

Also feeding in a seperate tub cuts down on having to remove items from the original enclosure, and no worry about the snake ingesting substrate or anything like that when fed in an empty tub.

As an example, could you imagine feeding in this enclosure? It would be a pain.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...7/100_3121.jpg

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Absolutely I could, and have in the past when I used a tank for an enclosure. :D I didn't remove things though, and the snake ate just fine.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

And conversely - why couldn't they get used to the pattern and routine of being moved to a separate enclosure on feeding day and be just as likely to bite when you move them than as if you fed in their own enclosure?

I feed over 50 ball pythons a week in their enclosures. I've never been mistaken for food. Well, OK, once I was mistaken for food, and that's because I was stupid and wasn't thinking about the fact that I was trying to locate a dead rodent by opening up enclosures in the exact same order as I do on feeding day, which triggered a feed response.

There's no need to feed ball pythons in separate feeding enclosures, other than just allowing the owner to have a false sense of avoiding a strike. Setting up a routine of feeding in a separate enclosure is just as likely (if not more likely) to elicit a feeding response. More so, because moving to the separate enclosure is only done on feeding day, whereas, I'm going into tubs every single day, not just on feeding day, so they aren't conditioned to associate the opening of the tubs as only being for feeding.

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Exactly! Excellent points!:gj:

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Personally, I have never seen a reason to feed is a separate area. The idea that a snake can associate opening their enclosure to food is a myth.

The only reason to do that separetely I can think of is if you house multiple snakes in one enclosure, but that is something only true experts should even attempt.

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Agree 100%...feeding in a seperate enclosure is just making things difficult for yourself...and stressful for the snake...

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Originally Posted by rabernet

And conversely - why couldn't they get used to the pattern and routine of being moved to a separate enclosure on feeding day and be just as likely to bite when you move them than as if you fed in their own enclosure?

I feed over 50 ball pythons a week in their enclosures. I've never been mistaken for food. Well, OK, once I was mistaken for food, and that's because I was stupid and wasn't thinking about the fact that I was trying to locate a dead rodent by opening up enclosures in the exact same order as I do on feeding day, which triggered a feed response.

There's no need to feed ball pythons in separate feeding enclosures, other than just allowing the owner to have a false sense of avoiding a strike. Setting up a routine of feeding in a separate enclosure is just as likely (if not more likely) to elicit a feeding response. More so, because moving to the separate enclosure is only done on feeding day, whereas, I'm going into tubs every single day, not just on feeding day, so they aren't conditioned to associate the opening of the tubs as only being for feeding.

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if you keep certain conditions for how you feed, as the one person did, that they dont handle the animal at all and allow it to move from one container to another then there isnt really an issue. Also if while in the separate feeding enclosure I wouldplace the snake in close the lid(thus making it 100% dark) then open, present feed item, and never close the lid again, they pattern becomes all dark lid closed, then WHEN it opens is the food coming in.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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and in my case it was most deffinately a help with the Burm I had.

additionally if you are going in and out of their enclosures more then just to feed them then yes the pattern is that most times it isnt food.

I really didn't realize that this was such a controversial subject:O, but i appreciate everyone's views! I'll see what works with Jackson, but I especially appreciate the advice I got on supporting the snakes body if I do have to pick him up for some reason after feeding- whether he's in a separate tub for feeding or not.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Personally, I have never seen a reason to feed is a separate area. The idea that a snake can associate opening their enclosure to food is a myth.

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I also disagree. I handle all my snakes on a regular basis, but my boa still assumes that it is feeding time when it comes time to get him out. I typically just watch his behavior though, if I can easily grab his mid section and get a hold of him without his head being near by, I will and he'll be lifted before he has a chance to tag me. If his head is right up front I use a hook to get him out. Typically he realizes that it is not feeding time if he gets touched. Otherwise it's a whole different story. I personally don't care if he thinks that it's feeding time when I go to get him, I would rather him associate his cage with food than coming out with food. My other snakes don't give a crap where they eat, especially the corns. The ball won't eat if being watched, so he just gets his rat laid in the cage under the same hide he is in.

i feed in - i never want him to associate coming out with eating - when he comes out it is never feeding time - have done balls, boas, and my corn the same way - what about the breeders of several hundred snakes - u think they take the time to rake them out - doubt it

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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So glad you asked. Because I believe in evolution and these animals did not evolve to recognize patterns and routine. They did on the other hand evolve to be very good at detecting the smell, and heat signature of prey. My hand doesn't look or smell like a rodent. For the sake of argument lets assume that the snake can determine patterns and now associated its feeding tub with feeding time. When you reach your hand in to take the snake out and put it back in its normal cage won't it think your hand is another rodent? I have yet to hear a convincing argument for cage aggression in BPs.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

So glad you asked. Because I believe in evolution and these animals did not evolve to recognize patterns and routine. They did on the other hand evolve to be very good at detecting the smell, and heat signature of prey. My hand doesn't look or smell like a rodent. For the sake of argument lets assume that the snake can determine patterns and now associated its feeding tub with feeding time. When you reach your hand in to take the snake out and put it back in its normal cage won't it think your hand is another rodent? I have yet to hear a convincing argument for cage aggression in BPs.

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I suppose the situation that I used a separate feeding enclosure is somewhat different... I did it with a Burm I had and I hook "trained" it. Never just stuck my hand straight in. Between hook training and feeding in a separate pen it DID make a HUGE difference with that animal. Perhaps just a one off but made my life easier and handling much safer.

Feeding in the Enclosure or tub they live in is not a problem.

This whole myth of getting bit when you go in is getting out of control with the new people coming day after day. Stop listening to petstores and listen to people that been doing it for years. You dont smell like a rat/mouse so theres no reason for them to bite unless your pissing them off.

I would hate to have to take 50+ snakes out once at a time to feed, a 2 hour feeding night would turn into a full time job.

Use common sense.

Let's do this.

All of you who think feeding in the tub results in less aggression, I invite you to do the following:

When you are planning in being in Northern California, drop me a PM. We can get together for a nice lunch and then I can bring you back to our house.

Then you can attempt to take my big cribos out one by one and feed them in a tub with the scents of thawed out rats in the air. When they are done eating, you can then place them back into their enclosures.

Then we can go down to the hospital and get you stitched up. Once the bandages come off your hands, you can type an account of what happened on this thread.

I find it rather funny how overly serious and intense many of you have been about this subject. I simply shared my experience the one time i did decide that it was a need... please keep in mind i dont work at petsmart, petco, etc and I have worked with a few hundred snakes for a few years. This is not me just talking about a subject that i heard about or read somewhere. Real hands on experience.

If you are so inclined to believe that there is no way to condition them on this subject, then that would mean in NO WAY do they ever get use to being handled and human interaction of any kind.

Now as far as people who keep 50+ snakes of course you wouldnt worry about feeding in another enclosure. at that point you are a breeder or at the very least an extreme hobbyist where temperament of the animal is completely irrelevant. Thus makes no need to ever worry or care about their behavior.

Anyway.... again it is not a need in the vast majority of cases, nor will it always work. Have i used this method, yes and it worked well for ME. Perhaps my particular experience was a fluke, or so other reason changed the snakes behavior, regardless it was a positive experience for me.

I dont handle any of my snakes. Some may get picked up once a month when they pee/poop. And still Never been bit, and my rodents are in same room as snakes. Guess what Still NOT bit.

Feeding and handling are 2 different things are not to be used as an example.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I dont handle any of my snakes. Some may get picked up once a month when they pee/poop. And still Never been bit, and my rodents are in same room as snakes. Guess what Still NOT bit.

Feeding and handling are 2 different things are not to be used as an example.

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Your snakes appear to be as stupid as mine.

Maybe I should read to mine more...........

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Your snakes appear to be as stupid as mine.

Maybe I should read to mine more...........

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Let me know which one you pick and if it works...

I don't feed in a separate tank. I feed in cage, every snake in my collection.

If you do feed in a separate tank, picking it up gently to replace it in its cage is no big deal and won't cause a regurgitation in a healthy snake.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

If you are so inclined to believe that there is no way to condition them on this subject, then that would mean in NO WAY do they ever get use to being handled and human interaction of any kind.

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The issue I have with your comments is that you presented them as facts and then when pressed to back them up you pulled way back, and now you are constructing a straw man to argue against. The fact that we are denying your claims that snakes can be conditioned against cage aggression by feeding in tubs does not in anyway mean that they don't get accustomed to being handled by humans or human interaction of any kind. What I mean by it anyway is that cage aggression is not real and feeding out of their normal enclosure will result in a greater risk of getting bit.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

The issue I have with your comments is that you presented them as facts and then when pressed to back them up you pulled way back, and now you are constructing a straw man to argue against. The fact that we are denying your claims that snakes can be conditioned against cage aggression by feeding in tubs does not in anyway mean that they don't get accustomed to being handled by humans or human interaction of any kind. What I mean by it anyway is that cage aggression is not real and feeding out of their normal enclosure will result in a greater risk of getting bit.

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Both things(being handled and feeding in a separate tub) would leverage the same type of mental capacity for a conditioned behavior. For someone to say that it is completely not possible for one while the other is possible, is a contradiction. Thats my point.

Now as far as how I have backed up a little bit in this discussion and I made a "Straw man" is because it seems this subject has people who live completely on one side or the other and it is a religious crusade. I would prefer to keep things as a friendly exchange of experiences and thoughts then seem as if I am 100% trashing their thoughts and Ideas on the subject.

well You keep feeding your burm outside the cage. Let us know how it is when its 12ft 150+lbs moving it back.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

well You keep feeding your burm outside the cage. Let us know how it is when its 12ft 150+lbs moving it back.

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I no longer have the burm, it was a rescue project. When i got it you couldnt get near the pen with out it going into a feed response and/or defensive attacks. When I had gotten the snake it was about 4 foot and greatly under weight, covered in mites and just flat out wicked. In the time that I had it, I was able to clear up the mites, tame it, and get it back up to weight. My avatar is a picture of it when I started finding a new home for it. I got on a forum and found someone who had several other burms of full adult size and checked out their setup before I gave the snake away to them. I wanted to ensure it was in good hands and not another news story. When all said and done it was doll and was a very educational experience.

Feed in tank or feed in separate container are both a-okay. Just like using plastic tub versus glass/wood tank are both a-okay.

But, just be sure you're not doing it out of misguided intentions. For example, feeding in a separate container to lessen the chance of getting bit is a misguided intention. Or not using plastic tub because it is snake-abuse to house a snake in such a small space is a misguided intention...

There are valid reasons for feeding the snake in a separate container. I feed this way. No, not because I don't want my snakes to get cage aggression. The main reason is, I have one of those "naturalistic looking" vivarium with tons of stuff in there and I feed live rat. If you drop the rat in the vivarium, the rat will have tons of places to hide that the snake will not be able to get to. If I hold the rat's tail with tongs, he poops and pees in the vivarium scared and he can break his tail off. I figured this is too much hassle and unnecessarily mean to the rat. So, I decided to feed in a separate container and use that time either to spot clean the viv or do the complete overhaul clean-up since it has become a routine.

There's really nothing much to feeding in a separate container. Pick up the snake, put him in one corner of the feeding tub, put a rat in the other corner, supervise until the rat is securely coiled, then wait or do stuff like clean out the vivarium, until the snake is done eating (no more squeezing movements), then pick up the snake again and put him in the viv with the least movement needed.

I've been doing that since 2008 without a single mishap. I even did that to a mother who was maternally incubating - she went super aggressive on us while she was brooding on the eggs, so we had to use a towel to uncoil her from her eggs to avoid the strike, feed her in the feeding tub, then put her back on the eggs. No problem. We discontinued this though. It started to get really tiresome trying to not get bit when we take her out of the eggs. So, we just did the "hold the rat by the tail" deals and fed her in her viv.

Now, if I was feeding f/t, I probably won't bother with a separate feeding tub. I can always clean out the viv when the kids are playing with the snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tcutting

Both things(being handled and feeding in a separate tub) would leverage the same type of mental capacity for a conditioned behavior. For someone to say that it is completely not possible for one while the other is possible, is a contradiction. Thats my point.

Now as far as how I have backed up a little bit in this discussion and I made a "Straw man" is because it seems this subject has people who live completely on one side or the other and it is a religious crusade. I would prefer to keep things as a friendly exchange of experiences and thoughts then seem as if I am 100% trashing their thoughts and Ideas on the subject.

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As has been said these two things are not utilizing the same mental capacity. Being handled is completely different from being fed. I reject your basic premise.

There is zero difference feeding inside the tub or outside the tub for most. It's honestly just a matter of what you are comfortable with. I've been snapped at by all sorts of snakes, for all sorts of reasons.

For those saying a snake won't bite if you don't smell like rodent - you are extremely bad at observing snake behavior. Clearly a snake could never associate a cage with a possible feeding, or mix up the hand with a possible food item. Fact is- snakes are pretty dumb, and sometimes they seem to screw up, who knows what stimulus does it.

The idea that the snake is aggressive, or cage aggressive because of it is 100% ridiculous, especially if it's only happened once or twice for the animal.

I think it's safe to say that it works well for a lot of snakes but is mostly unneeded for ball pythons. To the OP, I think it would be less stressful for you and the snake to just feed in his enclosure.

well i started to feed in a small box in tank then worked it so she is now eating off tongs, we are waiting for a breeding pair of afs rats then it will still be off tongs, any way good luck with your BP

I feed my snakes in their tubs. but if you do feed outside of the tub then you can gentle pick up your snake after just to put him away. Then no more after that. your snake wont vomit the instant you pick it up or get to stressed for being put into a hide, so no worries.