Anyone know the REAL difference?

Does anyone have any scientific information on the nutritional differences between mice, rats, and ASFs? I have "heard" 30 different answers and I would like to see some real fact on the matter.

In, this is relevant to my interests

The nutritional difference weight for weight is the same.

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Originally Posted by Munizfire

In, this is relevant to my interests

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I have seen nutritional information before, lots of searching on google. The big thing to remember is that we don't know enough about BP nutritional needs to be able to definitively say that one is better than the other nutritionally given that they are so close. All that being said there is a compelling reason to feed rats. Rats are larger and you may want to feed your snake more than 30 to 50 grams (what XL adult frozen mice weigh) per feeding. Some snakes will readily take more than one food item per feeding but its much easier to give one appropriately sized rodent. If you feed live rats grow faster but can outgrow your BP. Mice take a long time to get much over 25 grams. I think at the end of the day what you feed your BP is up to you and your snake and what works for both of you. I break all the rules and feed gerbils. I have a great basement, where I can keep gerbils as pets as well as food. There are a lot of things to consider but I have never been convinced that nutritional value was much worth considering, at least for BPs.

So why then does "everyone" want to change their animals from mice to rats or ASFs? I read a lot if threads of people worrying about making the switch from mice to something else.
Oh right the size issue, I forgot you mentioned that. Is that it?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.671254,-86.541636

Asf's are native to africa, they appear to be like crack to BP's. Great for getting stubborn feeders to eat. They won't outgrow your snakes either

I chose ASFs because they're the perfect size for BPs and they don't smell too bad. Most people don't because they're hard to find.

Mice stink and are too small. Rats stink and get too big.

Choose your poison...

Awesome response thanks guys!! My supplier has AFSs, so I guess that will be what I get from now in when I run out of these last few rats.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.671303,-86.541639

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I have seen nutritional information before, lots of searching on google. The big thing to remember is that we don't know enough about BP nutritional needs to be able to definitively say that one is better than the other nutritionally given that they are so close. All that being said there is a compelling reason to feed rats. Rats are larger and you may want to feed your snake more than 30 to 50 grams (what XL adult frozen mice weigh) per feeding. Some snakes will readily take more than one food item per feeding but its much easier to give one appropriately sized rodent. If you feed live rats grow faster but can outgrow your BP. Mice take a long time to get much over 25 grams. I think at the end of the day what you feed your BP is up to you and your snake and what works for both of you. I break all the rules and feed gerbils. I have a great basement, where I can keep gerbils as pets as well as food. There are a lot of things to consider but I have never been convinced that nutritional value was much worth considering, at least for BPs.

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Thanks for this post! You saved me from typing something very similar! :D

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Originally Posted by Lferg

Awesome response thanks guys!! My supplier has AFSs, so I guess that will be what I get from now in when I run out of these last few rats.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.671303,-86.541639

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I would suggest you stick with rats if you plan on getting your rats either frozen or live from a supplier. The reason being that the negative side of rats is that they get to big and stink a bit. If you don't have to raise them yourself and your snake eats them fine they are the cheapest rodent you can get. If something were to happen to you and someone else needed to care for your snake rats would be cheapest for that person too and switching from rats to ASF's is not a problem. I would only switch to ASF's if you have a snake that is young and won't eat for an extended period of time. Now keep in mind that once your snake is an adult not eating is not a problem till it lasts around a year. For example, my BP just finished an 266 day fast. Temps and humidity were great. I offered a tasty gerbil once every 10 days. One day for no particular reason I looked and saw my BP with its head out with a slight S pattern and a flicking tongue. It had been 8 days since the last refusal so I ran down to the basement and grabbed a gerbil. BAM gerbil down. I have had 4 or 5 good feeds in a row. Moral of the story is that you shouldn't switch rodents lightly. If your snake is eating rats you are the envy of many keepers who have mousers or BP's stuck on gerbils. Don't fix what is already awesome.

Here is some information from the RodentPro website.

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

She would strike and constrict mice. I have to just leave rats in over night. Doesn't seem healthy. F/t btw

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Originally Posted by Lferg

She would strike and constrict mice. I have to just leave rats in over night. Doesn't seem healthy. F/t btw

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How long have you been feeding F/T rats? If it hasn't been too long I would say keep at it. If its been awhile and you can get ASF's reliably that might be a good way to go.

The "real" difference between rats, mice, asf's, gerbils, hamsters, chicks, etc....all boils down to this:

1. What will the snake eat?
2. What does the keeper have readily available?
3. How much does each option cost?
4. How much is the keeper willing/able to spend?

And all of this varies SO much from one snake to another...from one keeper to another...that everyone will give you different reasons for why they feed what they do. It all boils down to what works for you. I've never heard of a single instance of a snake becoming unhealthy because it was eating the "wrong" type of prey. So long as they're eating, and it is reasonably good quality whole prey food (not filled with parasites or pesticides), it's all good.

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Originally Posted by Lferg

She would strike and constrict mice. I have to just leave rats in over night. Doesn't seem healthy. F/t btw

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Oh...and nothing wrong with leaving a f/t prey item overnight. If the snake eats it, it's all good. :gj:

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Great, I'd never heard of ASFs, and this thread has made me spend the last hour watching videos about them on youtube :P

Sorry to derail, but how do people who keep their own mouse/rat/ASF colonies balance age of rodents with amount? Like, making sure they have enough of the right size each week, and what do you do when the rats outgrow your demand (for example, not enough adult snakes to eat the rat pups for your juvies that aged into adults). Aim higher than you need and sell excess?

The idea of one day breeding my own food appeals to me, I think I just like breeding things :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sugarbone

Great, I'd never heard of ASFs, and this thread has made me spend the last hour watching videos about them on youtube :P

Sorry to derail, but how do people who keep their own mouse/rat/ASF colonies balance age of rodents with amount? Like, making sure they have enough of the right size each week, and what do you do when the rats outgrow your demand (for example, not enough adult snakes to eat the rat pups for your juvies that aged into adults). Aim higher than you need and sell excess?

The idea of one day breeding my own food appeals to me, I think I just like breeding things :rolleyes:

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I of course can't speak for others but if your snakes will take F/t you just freeze them at the correct size. If you feed live you have three options depending on your circumstance. If you have a way to sell the excess or wrong sized rodents you can exceed your own needs. If you can't sell but you can buy you can produce less than you need and then buy enough to make up the difference. If you can neither buy nor sell or don't want to you pretty much have to feed something that will never get to big for your snake. That's why I breed Gerbils, and because I cannot get ASFs easily. The one big plus about feeding live and breeding your own is minimizing the suffering of the prey. My snake had a 260 day fast this year. If I were feeding F/T and refreezing once and offering on a 10 day schedule I would have had 26 refusals and 13 rodents in the garbage. Feeding live allowed me to just put them back in the tub and shut off my production for a while. Breeding my own I can keep my rodents in very spacious tubs, max of 4 adults to a 20"x26"x"6 tub which is more floor space than a 20 gallon breeder. I know my animals are getting quality food and are just generally well cared for.

I feed rats because gram for gram they are the most economical option. It's also a pain in the butt to get a snake that will only eat mice and you have to do the dead rat boogie with the tongs multiple times to provide him with a good dinner.

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Originally Posted by Sugarbone

how do people who keep their own mouse/rat/ASF colonies balance age of rodents with amount? Like, making sure they have enough of the right size each week

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We kind of do this with ASFs but it's not as big of a deal to have a mix of sizes since they don't get very big.

And yes I like to sell excess. I put the money in a coffee can and it helps pay for their food/bedding bill each month.