has anyone tried "braining" a mouse with success?

Bradley isn't eating and Im trying to pull out all stops before trying more, erm, forceful methods. He is underweight and the vet advised me that he needs to be fed asap. Like as in, bring him back in if he doesn't eat by Friday. If youve never heard of braining, its making a little incision in the skull so that some brain matter comes out...

ive done it to a f/t mouse with success. never with a live one

He won't take hopper mice?

you can also try braining a FT mouse/rat and rubbing the brain matter on the live mouse:confused:

Tried 3 sizes: pinky, fuzzy, hopper. Not even a little bit interested, he almost looked like he was trying to hide from it. I set one on top of the log in the warm part of the tank where he likes to hang out and left for a couple hours, when I got back the mouse was gone and I started rejoicing- but he had just pushed it off so he could sit there. I found it behind the log upon further inspection. The fuzzy was the only live size I tried. I got it from the pet store I got him from, he was raised on their pinkies.
I wouldnt have the heart to brain a live mouse, ew... it's freshly killed. The same fuzzy that i tried live.

Give him live hoppers, then move up in size. Once he has put on some weight, you can try f/t

If I felt I had the need to brain a rat to feed a snake my hobby days would be over....:confused:

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Originally Posted by ginandbradley

Tried 3 sizes: pinky, fuzzy, hopper. Not even a little bit interested, he almost looked like he was trying to hide from it. I set one on top of the log in the warm part of the tank where he likes to hang out and left for a couple hours, when I got back the mouse was gone and I started rejoicing- but he had just pushed it off so he could sit there. I found it behind the log upon further inspection. The fuzzy was the only live size I tried. I got it from the pet store I got him from, he was raised on their pinkies.
I wouldnt have the heart to brain a live mouse, ew... it's freshly killed. The same fuzzy that i tried live.

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Do you trust this pet store? The crew at the local Petco is told to say "2 days ago" if they are ever asked about when their snakes ate last. I believe that the snake I got from them never ate, and is a very problematic feeder for me. She will only eat fresh killed mice (or live but I'm in the group that refuses to feed live).

Did the vet do a fecal exam. They can also give injections of vitamin b to stimulate feeding, and make sure there are no parasites that could be stopping him from eating.

To snakesrkewl: Haha, really? I love your profile pic, by the way... it is way funny.
I know alot of people on here are herp experts and professionals, but all the reptile professionals I consulted and the veterinarian said to give him fuzzies. I'm certainly willing to try hoppers, I'm trying anything and everything til friday. Then it's back to the vet. I just want him healthy! I haven't been able to enjoy him yet, with the bad shed, and the not eating and all.... poor little bud, I really feel like I'm letting him down as an owner...

I do trust the pet store, but I'm a naturally un-cynical person, sometimes to a fault. But they do have little index cards on all the snake tanks detailing sheds and feedings. So that looked promising... they are very knowlegeable and the guy that owns the store is a breeder. Its a reptile specialty store. (with one disgusting centipede that eats mice!!! Just thought I'd throw that in there...)
oh yeah, and also she said to bring in a fecal sample at Bradleys soonest convenience, so thats coming... I guess...

What is the set up like that the snake is kept in?
Pictures of the snake and the set up would help a lot.
Without information on the snake and how the snake is kept it's difficult to give advise on feeding.

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Originally Posted by ginandbradley

but all the reptile professionals I consulted and the veterinarian said to give him fuzzies.

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They are wrong, unless they are talking about rat, I have one that dropped to 29g, I funally got it to take asf hoppers every 3-4days, it's now up to 47g.

I'd like to know your vets rationale for feeding fuzzies.

I don't think braining or gutting or anything like that really makes the snake eat or not. The snake will either eat or won't eat. I've heard many people try things like this and the underlying cause of fast is usually one of a few different things. Stress, illness, breeding fast, or bad husbandry. The other option I've seen is wrong prey source. Sometimes snakes do have to be forcefeed. It all depends on what's going on with that snake. I have had one that was a youngster and went 2 months without eating. Was brought to the vet and we could find no reason for the fast. He wasnt even old enough to breed. He needed to be forcefed a couple times before he got the picture. He's a very high anxiety snake. And the only one in my baby rack with 2 hides.
Bradley should really be on no smaller than a mouse hopper. Anything smaller is just too small and won't attract any attention. I suggest leaving him alone for a few days, no food offering for at least 3 days in a row. When you offer daily you're only making the situation worse. Double check all the husbandry and give him space. Make sure The tank isn't in a high traffic or loud noises area. Make sure you offer live, and around dusk time. Don't worry about dipping it or slitting it. Keep it alive and drop it in. Take Out all of his hides, water dish etc so he has a clear path to The food. If he doesn't eat it within 20 min take it out. If he jerks away, starts fast paced roaming, striking but no coiling, or shying away from it take it out. Those are stress movements. From what your describing it sounds like he's stressed out. With stress comes not eating. He needs to seriously destress or this can get detrimental. He may need a ff to sustain him so that he can destress.
Hope this helps.


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thanks so much. i really think that the problem is stress. I left one of the mice in his tank for a couple hours, and when I went in to get my shoes (he's in my bedroom, which is very low traffic area- no one is allowed in there but me and my husband, and we don't spend much time in there at all... wait, that sounds pretty bad, we love each other very much...!) Bradley had the mouse in his mouth but he had dropped it by the time I came back for my pjs. I probably disturbed him getting my shoes. I didn't even turn on the light, but I couldn't help but check on him, man do I ever suck... The fuzzy that I had was about the same size as my (frozen) hopper mouse, so I think it was a rat and I had misunderstood. The woman at the store said that they were out of hoppers but had fuzzies about the same size...

One of mine refused live fuzzies (I only used them because live hoppers can become scarce from time to time), and f/t hoppers for 2-3 weeks. When I finally got ahold of some live hoppers....there was NO hesitation.

One thing I think I may have messed up with the f/t attempts in the past was the temp of the mouse was not right and my snakes knew it.

Fuzzies don't move a lot. Sometimes snakes in general really key in on movement. You need to leave him alone and put a hopper in there in the evening with the lights off. I bet if you check back after an hour or two it would be gone!

I second what everyone is saying about braining. There's always a reason a snake isn't eating and it isn't because you didn't "brain".

Regards,

B

has he eaten since you had him? If not I would question the pet store and either take the snake to them and have them try to feed him or take him back and get another snake. I understand your frustration and want the snake to get well and start eating, but, honestly I think they sold you a snake that was a problem to begin with.
If the vet said to feed him, you may have to force him to eat, that is what the vet will do. Get a small frozen pinkie, thaw and then force feed, at least he will have something in his stomach. Maybe all it will take is to start the food and he will do the rest.

I do not suggest force feeding to a beginner. That is an incredibly stressful process for both human and snake. It can seriously hurt the snake if not done right. IMHO at that point I think the vet should do a tube feed if you don't have anyone nearby that is quite experienced with ffing. I've had balls for 6 years and had a couple really high anxiety animals and I've never FFd myself. I have an even more experienced breeder that I call if and when it needs to be done. Shoving food Into a snakes throat or belly should never be taken as an easy task. And I would never trust anyone to do it if they aren't seriously qualified.

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Tried "braining" a few times and made no difference...that was with hatchlings...ended up assist feeding them to get them going...