Snake ID: Is this an Enchi or a Fire *scratches head*

I feel kinda dim asking this but not sure if this boy is an enchi or a fire.

He came from an fire x reduced normal breeding, in which the female seems to have a genetic propensity for reduced offspring.

But last season she threw two 100% reduced enchis, and this one has that same pattern, islands on the back, one long alien head near the tail, reduced sides, and a nice "salmon" colour to him.

At first I though "nice, a smoking fire" then the more I looked I thought maybe an enchi, except for the brownish patches on the sides, as none of the enchi babes she threw last year had that coming out of the egg, they were the cleanest snakes I have ever seen.

Here are the pics...

Firstly the suspect snake.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p.../snaketop2.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p.../snaketop1.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...snakebelly.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p.../snakeside.jpg

Here is one of the enchis she threw last year, and if it weren't for these snakes I would not have questioned it.

But as noted, the two that looked like this were much cleaner, with just a nice pure salmon colour to them, with no melanin on the sides. So here is the comparison shot of one of the enchis, as I am wondering if she retained sperm?

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...bum/enchi2.jpg

Any advice would be appreciated (and yes, I know to wait till he sheds out). :)

Thanks for looking, and advance thanks for any advice,

bruce

*scratches head* I swear i post here few minutes ago :O... ok One more time..

I dont see Enchi in first baby so.... but wait why You think is fire if is from normal/enchi breeding.. Did you Pair That Normal with fire as well ?

Weird, the first one looks like a fire to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aes_Sidhe

*scratches head* I swear i post here few minutes ago :O... ok One more time..

I dont see Enchi in first baby so.... but wait why You think is fire if is from normal/enchi breeding.. Did you Pair That Normal with fire as well ?

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This was my question as well. How could you suspect Fire if it was Normal x Enchi pairing? :confused:

Can you post pictures of the normal? I think it looks fire-ish but where did fire come from?

Ugh, my bad...

This season she was exclusively paired with my Fire, but last season she was exclusively paired with my enchi and threw a six egg clutch.

My goal was to produce a genetically reduced Fire, and last season I held back all the reduced normals and enchis as I think that the mom is genetic, but want to prove out the line first.

Last season she threw.

2 100% reduced enchis.
2 reduced normals (that look a lot like mom).
2 normals.

In both clutches the reduced babes had a decidedly distinct pattern... long islands on the back, faded heads, and reduced alien heads.

bruce

The enchi sire...

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...il2010pic1.jpg

The fire sire...

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...hFireJan09.jpg

The normal female...

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...m/Stella-1.jpg

For what it's worth, it looks like a really nice Fire to me.

Cheers,
-Matt

Dont leave out the possibility of Enchi Fire, But i see Fire mostly in first pictures

Similar head pattern that the Enchi sire has, but my guess would be Fire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Dont leave out the possibility of Enchi Fire, But i see Fire mostly in first pictures

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Two sires's sperm can combine to make a combo morph? If that's true I've never heard of it.

I see a Fire. Good looking snake :)

Regards,

B

Fire fire fire!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

Two sires's sperm can combine to make a combo morph? If that's true I've never heard of it.

I see a Fire. Good looking snake :)

Regards,

B

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you can get multiple sired clutches but i cant remember about one single baby

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

Two sires's sperm can combine to make a combo morph? If that's true I've never heard of it.

I see a Fire. Good looking snake :)

Regards,

B

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I misread it. thought one was the female. Its highly unlikely its enchi fire now that i reread it. But then again stranger things have happened.

Well I am going to have to go with Fire (the good Lady has spoken!).

Thanks for the words all, the pattern and colour threw me, and the more I looked the more I doubted what it was.

And I hatched two Fire females before this and they did not have the same kick that this guy had.

I am happy with him though, I think either way he is a sharp looking snake.

Bruce. :)

Fire then it Is :gj::gj::gj:

It looks like a Fire, but looking at what you got both years it looks like that female may not be a "normal". Were there any strange "normals" in the clutch?

I think I know what Big Gunns is hinting at.... I see it too.

Or maybe not what I'm thinking.. I just looked at mom and she's missing one trait.. Hm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I think I know what Big Gunns is hinting at.... I see it too.

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Those Enchis from last year are not normal Enchis. Do you have pics of them as they grew?

I do now... (have pics that is)

There were two males that looked like mom, and here is one. Keep in mind he is due for a shed, when he sheds out he has a really nice caramel colour to him, and has bright yellow lines along his sides. Mom has the same colour on her sides, but is darker. But all the snakes have the reduced alien heads and islands on the back.

You can see yellow on the sides and belly of the enchi male as well, and both the enchis are due for a shed too.

The normal male.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...malmaletop.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...almaleside.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...aletopside.jpg

The Enchi male.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...chimaletop.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...himaleside.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...imalebelly.jpg

The Enchi female.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ifemaletop.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...femaleside.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...malebottom.jpg

Let me know what you think and thanks for looking.
Bruce

Great looking Fire :gj:

The jagged edges on the alien eyes give it away for me :cool:

The jagged edges... and I know I used to know that marker too. :)

Good point, and thanks.

Bruce

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

The jagged edges... and I know I used to know that marker too. :)

Good point, and thanks.

Bruce

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I bet the sire looked just that as a hatchling! Great job :gj:

I love these cryptic threads

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Originally Posted by SansCera

I bet the sire looked just that as a hatchling! Great job :gj:

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Papa looks like this... did then and still does. He is one of the jewels in my collection.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...hFireJan09.jpg

I would breed the male Enchi back to mom and see what you get. Both of your adult males are A + examples of that morph. This may have something to do with it. The normal female doesn't look like much, but I have an animal that doesn't look like much that's "something". Unfortunately she didn't prove to be het for superstripe this year. Now I have yellowbellies and whatever she is. Hopefully next year I'll figure it out.

Thanks for looking BG, I appreciate that.

Both the sires (enchi and fire) are nice quality animals, but both threw babes with other dams that were not so stellar, but each clutch she throws are hands above the others.

Had every intention of working on her, and figuring it out, I know there is something there, just no idea what it is... next year she has a date with her enchi son.

And I plan on pairing the enchi male and female when she is up to weight.
Bruce