Black Back ball python

I have been talking to some people about a ghana ball I have and they said it looked like a black back. So I looked for morphs with that "morph" in it and found NERD's black back pastel and it looked AMAZING! But what I want to see is other morphs with the black back "gene" in it. Does anyone have any pics?


Here is NERD's black back pastel
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5...backpastel.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

on kingsnake.com someone is selling a black back cinnamon. Look it up, it will blow your mind!

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Originally Posted by Rat160

on kingsnake.com someone is selling a black back cinnamon. Look it up, it will blow your mind!

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WOW that snake is HOT!!! Im hoping mine will be genetic:please:

This is my female BB and a female BB cinny..

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898ced-c9e9-8412.jpg

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898ced-c9fb-6179.jpg

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

This is my female BB and a female BB cinny..

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898ced-c9e9-8412.jpg

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898ced-c9fb-6179.jpg

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nice. That cinny is amazing!!

Little off subject, but I never remember getting a straight answer on this... is black back a proven simple 1 gene morph or is it more of a selectively bred/accidentally bred/random thing?

There are single gene, genetic blackbacks. Then there are blackbacks that have a super form. Not all BB are genetic though.

I still haven't figured out what mine is for sure. All I know is she's genetic and creates BB cinnys when bred to a cinny but her "normal" BB offspring, while they are all identical, and have the same broken BB pattern with a continuous line under that section, they are not typical solid BB's. Now I have to breed back one of her offspring to find out if there is a super and why the BB cinnys are so much lighter than other lines of genetic BB cinnys.

From what I've been able to find out, unless it's an already proven line, it takes a couple generations to be able to accurately call it. I know I was confused about mine at first.

Then there are het reds which I don't consider BB because when put to other dark morphs like cinny and black pastel, you get a stripe instead of a BB in the combo. They act more like a green pastel.

But as far as BB's go in general, I'm still learning myself lol!

:D I hope yours turns out genetic! I think the favorite black back I ever saw was a black back lesser! Super gorgeous with some nice creamy colors :D the pattern just went great with the morph I think!

I just found a Mohave black back that was Amazing!! I've never seen a super black back though. Is it only certain lines that have a super form?

I think NERD has a BB line that has a super form. I'm not sure tho. Have to double check if it's them or not.

I have a black back female normal that I bred to a black back cinnie and produced black back cinnies and black back normals. So at the very least, the offspring are genetic. I'll have to breed both of them to other animals this season to see if they both are genetic or if just one of them was the dominant one.

Here are pictures of them and their babies.

Black back cinnie:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ny122209_1.jpg

Black back normal:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...PretJune19.jpg

Babies:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...h/IMG_6629.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...Clutch/760.jpg

One of the black back normals:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...h/IMG_6619.jpg

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Babies:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...h/IMG_6629.jpg

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I want this snake!!

I remember reading something on RDR's site that said black/brown backs were essentially het "het reds" since Het Red seems to atctually be a visual morph. This morph never made sense to me because a het red is a visual and the red axanthic would be the super form. So wouldnt it just be a Red Axanthic and a Super Red?

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Originally Posted by Rat160

I remember reading something on RDR's site that said black/brown backs were essentially het "het reds" since Het Red seems to atctually be a visual morph. This morph never made sense to me because a het red is a visual and the red axanthic would be the super form. So wouldnt it just be a Red Axanthic and a Super Red?

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Het = Heterozygous in short meaning 1 gene
Homozygous in short means having 2 genes (genes comes in pairs of 2)

So het red axanthic has 1 gene and the red axanthic has both genes. Pastel, Lesser, Cinny, ect. are all heterozygous aka hets. all morphs are heterozygous or homozygous, doesn't matter if their visual or not, dom, co-dom, or recessive.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I have a black back female normal that I bred to a black back cinnie and produced black back cinnies and black back normals. So at the very least, the offspring are genetic. I'll have to breed both of them to other animals this season to see if they both are genetic or if just one of them was the dominant one.

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So when you bred your BB did you also get non-BB animals in the same clutch?

oops dbl post

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Het = Heterozygous in short meaning 1 gene
Homozygous in short means having 2 genes (genes comes in pairs of 2)

So het red axanthic has 1 gene and the red axanthic has both genes. Pastel, Lesser, Cinny, ect. are all heterozygous aka hets. all morphs are heterozygous or homozygous, doesn't matter if their visual or not, dom, co-dom, or recessive.

So when you bred your BB did you also get non-BB animals in the same clutch?

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According to RDR (If I remember correctly) a het red is (BBxBB) which would make a het red a Homozygous morph. A Red Axanthic would be a super form. Like I said I cant remember 100% but im pretty sure thats what it said.

I have not produced any BB myself, you would be better off asking Rabernet. I do have a BB male just havent bred him. Just never had a good female to put him to.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

According to RDR (If I remember correctly) a het red is (BBxBB) which would make a het red a Homozygous morph. A Red Axanthic would be a super form. Like I said I cant remember 100% but im pretty sure thats what it said.

I have not produced any BB myself, you would be better off asking Rabernet. I do have a BB male just havent bred him. Just never had a good female to put him to.

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Ok i think there might be a little confusion. Homozygous = super, in snake lingo. Red axanthic = homozygous, het red axanthic = heterozygous. You could call red axanthic a super het red axanthic if you really wanted. You need a het red or red to make other het reds. That much I do know.

Now if het reds = BB and how the projects are related, I have no idea. Hopefully someone else can fill that in.

*edit* this is whats on RDR site....

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The Red Axanthic is the homozygous ( super ) form of the Black Backs ( visible hets ) that produce it.............breeding two Black Backs together from this bloodline will produce the super form.............The Red Axanthic. Corey bought a pair of really nice Black Backs from The Snake Keeper some time ago...........he bred them together and produced these beautiful Red Axanthics.............I bred a Red Axanthic ( homo ) male to several normal females producing all Black Backs or "het Red Axanthics" in 2003. The Snake Keeper had no idea what they had when they sold the original Black Backs to Corey.

Het Red Axanthics are the proven line of "Black Backs" needed to produce the homozygous "Red Axanthic" ( The Super )

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Ok i think there might be a little confusion. Homozygous = super, in snake lingo. Red axanthic = homozygous, het red axanthic = heterozygous. You could call red axanthic a super het red axanthic if you really wanted. You need a het red or red to make other het reds. That much I do know.

Now if het reds = BB and how the projects are related, I have no idea. Hopefully someone else can fill that in.

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Yeah sorry its early lol. You are right, Im gonna see if I can find that article on RDR's site. Ill post it if I can find it.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

I want this snake!!

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She's not going anywhere! :P

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

So when you bred your BB did you also get non-BB animals in the same clutch?

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I got these two normals who I wouldn't call black backs, but they do have more black on their back than other normals.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...Clutch/761.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rat160

Yeah sorry its early lol. You are right, Im gonna see if I can find that article on RDR's site. Ill post it if I can find it.

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look up for my edit, good info tho, I didn't know het reds were also BB

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

look up for my edit, good info tho, I didn't know het reds were also BB

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Ok so I was mistaken. RDR Simply referenced Corey Woods. This is from Corey Woods's Website.

"I produced the first Red Axanthics back in 2001 when I was still a very small breeder. I bred 2 Black Backs together expecting to produce more Black Backs. To my amazement 2 “weird” looking Axanthics were in the clutch. The Red Axanthics are born with purple heads and have the classic grey, white and black colouration. As they mature they become a cream colour much like the palm of your hand. At about 2 years of age they go back to their grey, black and white colouration."

Wanted to share this girl i picked up at the NY White Plains expo this month. She is an import and has a nice black back along with other things going on.

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/a3b57dc9.jpg
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/c7768064.jpg
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/7dfe921c.jpg

Javier
NNJExotics

Partial black-back Lesser Platinum. (No idea if it's heritable, we'll find out this year). I think black back looks particularly spiffy on a Lesser. :)

http://eclipseexotics.com/images/lar...lipoca_LRG.jpg

But the difference between the het reds/ red ax's and the blackbacks is that het reds bred to a cinny create gargoyles. They have a solid stripe. BB bred to a cinny create BB cinny. No stripe. Just solid BB.

So het red/red ax ARE a different snake than the BB.

That's what I was confused about at first also.

Not all BB are het reds and not all BB have the super form of red ax.

Here are a couple of photos of an unproven black back lesser platinum female of mine. I'm really hoping she passes the black back trait on to her offspring.

When I got her:
http://www.russreptiles.com/images/g...lesser01_2.jpg

Recent photo:
http://www.russreptiles.com/images/g...esser01f_1.jpg

I feed my babies 2 times a week but he is only about 80g so i doubt he will make it this year:( .I dont think he can gain 420g in only a few months.

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Originally Posted by NNJExotics

Wanted to share this girl i picked up at the NY White Plains expo this month. She is an import and has a nice black back along with other things going on.

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/a3b57dc9.jpg
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/c7768064.jpg
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/7dfe921c.jpg

Javier
NNJExotics

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I have a female that has that red color blushing on her back like yours. Not as extreme but she does have it.

I think a LOT of the confusion here comes from the term "black back". "Black back" is a descriptive term used to describe a particular pattern type. It, in itself, is not a genetic term in the same way that "pastel" is, for instance.

When Corey Woods told his story, he tells of breeding two "black backs" together in hopes of seeing that trait pass on to babies. To his surprise, he hit a super form that he named "Red Axanthic", and therefore the founding line was called "Het Red Axanthic". This does NOT mean that all ball pythons with a black back pattern are Het Red Axanthics. The black back pattern just happens to be one of the visible traits you can use to identify Het Reds...it's not the only one.

Sometimes the black back appearance can be predictably passed on to offspring and those lines are usually referred to as Genetic Black Backs. But more often than not, the appearance of the black back pattern is as random as the number of alien heads and "eyes" within those heads.

The only way to know for sure if your black back is genetic is by breeding it out for multiple generations, or if it came from a known, proven genetic line.