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  • 07-29-2011, 03:40 AM
    Fataltix
    Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Hey guys,

    some of you may have seen my previous comments about purchasing an RTB but I had issues with not having space for two snakes. Well that may have changed! So I'm looking into getting a columbian red tail, and have seen a ton of conflicting imformation in regards to cage size, and male vs female growth. A lot of people say that a 6x2x2 is minimum for a full grown female, is this really true? I have a 4x2x1 cage, and would love to have a female (mostly the size factor) and it would be really difficult for me to manage a 6x2x2 cage. Could anyone clear this up?

    One more thing, I'm buying a columbian because I love the look, and I want to get into larger snakes. Will a male be pleantly large for me? Or should I go for a female? I want it to be at least 6+ (preferable 7+).

    Thanks,
    GA
  • 07-29-2011, 04:40 AM
    llovelace
    I have my 8+ ft girl in a 4x4x1
  • 07-29-2011, 05:07 AM
    snake2615
    4x2x1 will be just fine its up to you if you want her to have the extra space.
  • 07-29-2011, 01:15 PM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Really? Thats great to hear! Because it would only be for the next few years, then I could build her a new cage :). Thanks guys!!!

    Cheers,
    Fatal
  • 07-29-2011, 09:25 PM
    Evenstar
    4x2x1 = 8 cubic feet.
    4x4x1 = 16 cubic feet
    4x2x2 = 16 cubic feet
    6x2x2 = 24 cubic feet

    4x2x1 is, in my opinion, too small for a fully grown female BCI. 4x2x2 would be better. You can go a foot higher rather than wider and achieve the minimum 16 cubic feet of space. Given the opportunity with a 2' high cage, your BCI may climb and the 4' length won't be a problem. A 4x2x2 will only take up the same footprint of space as a 4x2x1.

    A male BCI will easily achieve a length of 6 feet or more. A female will be around 7-9 or more. A male is still a VERY impressive animal! But they can do a bit better in the size cage you are considering. I do recommend 4x2x2 as a minimum for a female and 6x2x2 is better. If you have your heart set on a BCI and space is an issue, I would most certainly go with a male. But the choice is yours.

    If the space issue is only for the next couple years, why not get a baby or a 1 year old to start? You can have a baby in a 20 gal long tank that's only 30x12x12 INCHES! A 1 yr old snake might also be ok in that or maybe a 40gal breeder sized tank - that's only 36x18x18 inches. I have a 4month old baby BCI in a 20gal long and she'll (yes, it's a female) stay in that for the next year at least. They grow fast, but not so fast as to rapidly outgrow that size tank.

    But good for you for thinking it out responsibly before bringing the snake home! :gj:
  • 07-29-2011, 09:59 PM
    MikeV
    My juvenile Colombian BCI female is currently in a 4x2x1 PVC enclosure at 10 - 11 months of age (she is a giant for her age though, she is 3 ' and 8.49 " :O )

    So, unless you get a fast growing female, you shouldn't need to get a big cage for awhile. But if you do get a female it will almost certainly need a 6x2x1 or similar cage EVENTUALLY.

    The rule of thumb is that a cage must be at least half the length of the snake, so if you do get a female you can house her in various sized tubs until she gets over 4 foot, then you would need a 4x2x1 (or 4x2x2) until she reaches 8 foot

    after 8 foot you would need to switch her to a 6x2x1 minimum


    A male would need a lot less cage space for its entire life.

    And, to answer your question on sizes between sexes, Females are usually 7 - 11 feet (although anything over 9 foot is huge, and 10 - 11 foot is monstrous)

    Males are usually 5 - 7 foot long, maybe 8 :) but females are almost always much bigger.

    And, we aren't even taking weight into account. Female colombian BCI boas can be anywhere from 15 - 60, and even upwards of 80 pounds! (again, the bigger the more rare it is)

    Males are ofcourse a lot less bulky than females :)

    Hope this info has helped!
  • 07-29-2011, 10:12 PM
    Kinra
    I agree with Evenstar. If you get a baby it should do fine in the cage you have for a year or two, maybe more. I currently have my little BCI in a 40gal breeder. I've had her for about 3 months now and while she has grown, it's easy to see that she won't out grow the cage for a while.
  • 07-30-2011, 04:06 PM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Well you guys have certainly given me a lot to think on...

    I currently have my male BP in the 4x2x1 cage and while its a little big he's got multiple hides and such and is pleanty happy (eats/poops regularly :P). So what I'm thinking is that I build another cage just like it, but a 4x2x2 and stack them. Just hoping I don't get one of those MONSTER (10-12) females, but I'd be able to make it work if I did :).

    I have but one last question for you guys. When do BCI's usually lay their clutches and who are some good boa breeders that you would recommend? I'd love to get a female baby (1-3 months of age would be perfect) and put her in my old 20 gal tub setup for about a year, gives me pleanty of time to build a new cage and stuff.

    Thanks for all the help, :)
    Fatal
  • 07-30-2011, 05:07 PM
    AndrewGeibel
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    I disagree with the height being all that important. Most boa breeders will keep their adult females in 4x2x1 cages. Of course if you get a monster (which is rare) you will probably have to go to a 6 foot cage.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fataltix View Post
    Well you guys have certainly given me a lot to think on...

    I currently have my male BP in the 4x2x1 cage and while its a little big he's got multiple hides and such and is pleanty happy (eats/poops regularly :P). So what I'm thinking is that I build another cage just like it, but a 4x2x2 and stack them. Just hoping I don't get one of those MONSTER (10-12) females, but I'd be able to make it work if I did :).

    I have but one last question for you guys. When do BCI's usually lay their clutches and who are some good boa breeders that you would recommend? I'd love to get a female baby (1-3 months of age would be perfect) and put her in my old 20 gal tub setup for about a year, gives me pleanty of time to build a new cage and stuff.

    Thanks for all the help, :)
    Fatal

    Boas also have litters instead of clutches but not sure what time of the year is most common for them to be available. Jimisnakes, VPI, and Rio Bravo Reptiles come to mind when thinking of good boa breeders although there are tons more out there.
  • 07-30-2011, 06:12 PM
    llovelace
    Here is Akita in her 4x2x1 she's just a tad over 8ft
    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...a/DSCF2442.jpg
  • 07-30-2011, 06:19 PM
    AliCat37
    A good friend of mine keeps his adult females in 4 x2 cages and they do just fine. I like to over size my cages for the fun of it, but I also have a small collection. Boas truly are not very active. Mine is a yearling and in a 4 x 2 cage, he literally sits in one corner all day, at night he MIGHT come out to look at his water dish. I just like to make sure that the dish is big enough for him to soak in, he likes to soak. I guess just get to know your snake and make the decision from there :)
  • 07-30-2011, 06:19 PM
    AndrewGeibel
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by llovelace View Post
    Here is Akita in her 4x2x1 she's just a tad over 8ft

    Ever have trouble getting her back in with the one big door?
  • 07-30-2011, 07:00 PM
    jason221
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by llovelace View Post
    Here is Akita in her 4x2x1 she's just a tad over 8ft
    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...a/DSCF2442.jpg

    How do you deal with feeding a snake that large? Mine is only 3 or 4 feet long right now, but she waits by the door when she starts getting hungry. She's even struck at the glass once or twice.
  • 07-31-2011, 12:51 AM
    Evenstar
    As you mentioned yourself, you could stack them. That would help to save space. I would definitely make the boa's cage 2' tall though. 1 foot high just isn't enough space for them, imo. 18 inches would be the minimum I would recommend and 2 feet is better. In addition to giving the snake a bit more space, it allows for easier manuvering getting a large snake in and out.

    4x2x2 for a male, and 6x2x2 for a female is what I recommend. It isn't about what's the smallest size you can get away with. It's about what's best for the animal.

    Again, consider a baby. You can place a 20 or 40 gal long tank very easily on top of your BP's cage and space won't be an issue at all until you're in a better living situation entirely.

    A female baby boa should be ready to breed by 3-4 years old (maybe sooner, but they are slower to mature than BP's and have to grow more). And boas give birth to live young and have litters. They do not have 'clutches' of eggs like pythons do. They can also have up to 30-40 babies in one litter so be prepared! ;)
  • 07-31-2011, 02:08 AM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    I was definately planning to get a baby, thats why I was asking when they lay litters so I would know what time of year to start looking :). I sadly don't intend to breed, maybe when I'm older and have more money and a wife to help haha. How long would a well fed female last in a 25 gallon tub? I'd love to get her in a 6x2x2, buut if I'm still not in a better living situation I'm going to deal with a 4x2x2. I handle my snakes so frequently that I'm not worried about her getting enough stretch time and movement. I literally handle my BP for over an hour at least every two days XD.

    Cheers,
    Fatal
  • 07-31-2011, 02:15 PM
    Evenstar
    Ok, couple of things...

    First, a baby will last a looong time in a 25 gal tub. At least a year - maybe longer. My baby is about 4 months old and I won't upgrader her 20 gal long tank until next summer at the earliest. Baby's are more active than adults and they do like to climb, so make sure you have a nice branch in there for her to hang out on. Mine spends 80% of her time on her branch. She thinks she a macho ETB..... :D

    Second, if you are going to be keeping her as just a pet, you probably won't have to worry about her reaching monstrous size. Keep her on rats all her life. If you move her to rabbits, it seems to trigger a lot of growth and she'll reach those monstrous lengths. She'll do fine on rats, even you feed 2-3 per feeding. Baby's will eat 1 rat pup per week (no more!) and then gradually increase as baby grows. My Peaches is still only eating 1/week. As adults, they usually only eat every 2-3 weeks. Don't power feed - they will reach the size mother nature intended them to be in the time they need to reach it. Rushing will only cause problems. Rats are good and will provider her with plenty of nutrition - if the rats are big enough and/or you feed 2-3 at a time, you will not be underfeeding. But the nice thing is that they don't seem to spark the same growth spurts as rabbits. You can NOT control how big your boa gets or how small she stays by what you feed - that could cause serious problems if you tried! BUT rabbits do seem to elicit an extra spurt of size that keeping them on rats seems to avoid.

    If you are just wanting her as a pet, and keep her on rats, a 4x2x2 will do fine for her once she reaches adulthood. Genetics will play some role in the size she gets, so just observe her throughout her life. If she seems cramped, get her a bigger cage at that time. :gj:

    And generally springtime is the time boas have their litters. I got Peaches in May at our local Rept Expo and they had TONS of baby boas there. I think generally May-June is the best time for a young baby. There may be some 2011's still available with breeders and you might also find some nice 2010's too. Litters can be born throughout the spring and summer though so if you're wanting a baby now, just call up some breeders and see what they still have. I got Peaches from Tim Koppenhofer at Special K Reptiles. He does still have both 2010's and 2011's available now. He was fantastic to work with! :gj:
  • 07-31-2011, 08:46 PM
    jben
    Mr. Boaphile himself keeps most of his boas in 421D cages, IF your boa reaches over 8' then you can get a bigger cage but if space and money are an issue the 421D will work perfectly. Good luck.
  • 08-01-2011, 07:08 AM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    Ok, couple of things...

    First, a baby will last a looong time in a 25 gal tub. At least a year - maybe longer. My baby is about 4 months old and I won't upgrader her 20 gal long tank until next summer at the earliest. Baby's are more active than adults and they do like to climb, so make sure you have a nice branch in there for her to hang out on. Mine spends 80% of her time on her branch. She thinks she a macho ETB..... :D

    Second, if you are going to be keeping her as just a pet, you probably won't have to worry about her reaching monstrous size. Keep her on rats all her life. If you move her to rabbits, it seems to trigger a lot of growth and she'll reach those monstrous lengths. She'll do fine on rats, even you feed 2-3 per feeding. Baby's will eat 1 rat pup per week (no more!) and then gradually increase as baby grows. My Peaches is still only eating 1/week. As adults, they usually only eat every 2-3 weeks. Don't power feed - they will reach the size mother nature intended them to be in the time they need to reach it. Rushing will only cause problems. Rats are good and will provider her with plenty of nutrition - if the rats are big enough and/or you feed 2-3 at a time, you will not be underfeeding. But the nice thing is that they don't seem to spark the same growth spurts as rabbits. You can NOT control how big your boa gets or how small she stays by what you feed - that could cause serious problems if you tried! BUT rabbits do seem to elicit an extra spurt of size that keeping them on rats seems to avoid.

    If you are just wanting her as a pet, and keep her on rats, a 4x2x2 will do fine for her once she reaches adulthood. Genetics will play some role in the size she gets, so just observe her throughout her life. If she seems cramped, get her a bigger cage at that time. :gj:

    And generally springtime is the time boas have their litters. I got Peaches in May at our local Rept Expo and they had TONS of baby boas there. I think generally May-June is the best time for a young baby. There may be some 2011's still available with breeders and you might also find some nice 2010's too. Litters can be born throughout the spring and summer though so if you're wanting a baby now, just call up some breeders and see what they still have. I got Peaches from Tim Koppenhofer at Special K Reptiles. He does still have both 2010's and 2011's available now. He was fantastic to work with! :gj:

    Thanks evenstar! You've been so helpfull :). I was really hoping to wait at least a couple of months to get one... but it looks like I'd have to wait almost a year for a fresh clutch unless I bought a baby now! I'm looking at this little girl right now, she's about 2 months old, only 64grams awww :). She's het albino do you know if they show any specific traits in appeareance as het for albino? She looks very bright... Here is a link to her pics:

    http://www.royalconstrictordesigns.c.../albino11-044f

    Super bright tail, love it. I'd rather pay less though for a none het snake, or perhaps a hypo. Kind of looking for something in the 30-70 range, what would you recommend?

    Thanks soooo much evenstar, you're amazing :)
    fatal
  • 08-01-2011, 01:02 PM
    Jason Bowden
    I don't think it would hurt if you waited a couple of months. You could also get a breeder to hold on to a particular animal for a while before shipping. I'm in Louisiana and it's just too damn hot to get anything live shipped right now.
    The boa you have picked out looks like a nice one to me. Awesome tail!
    Get your tub or enclosure set up right before getting your new snake.
    You'll love having a boa as a pet.
  • 08-01-2011, 02:52 PM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jason Bowden View Post
    I don't think it would hurt if you waited a couple of months. You could also get a breeder to hold on to a particular animal for a while before shipping. I'm in Louisiana and it's just too damn hot to get anything live shipped right now.
    The boa you have picked out looks like a nice one to me. Awesome tail!
    Get your tub or enclosure set up right before getting your new snake.
    You'll love having a boa as a pet.

    I know it wouldn't hurt... but I want to get a baby, or as close to it as possible. So the longer i wait, the older the 2011's get... Unless anyone else is having litters now?

    Thanks for the responses, any more recommendations on breeders who would still have normals available right now? (2011 litters).

    Thanks,
    Fatal
  • 08-01-2011, 05:23 PM
    llovelace
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AndrewGeibel View Post
    Ever have trouble getting her back in with the one big door?

    I used to, but now I keep her out for extended periods, to watch tv & chill in bed with us, so when it's time to go back, she's ready :)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JasonGranger View Post
    How do you deal with feeding a snake that large? Mine is only 3 or 4 feet long right now, but she waits by the door when she starts getting hungry. She's even struck at the glass once or twice.

    When they get older, they calm down alot, she is fed f/t every 10 days, and is usually coiled in a corner when I toss it in, now my other 2 1/2 yr old female, wwoaaaa look out!
  • 08-01-2011, 09:01 PM
    Evenstar
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fataltix View Post
    Thanks evenstar! You've been so helpfull :). I was really hoping to wait at least a couple of months to get one... but it looks like I'd have to wait almost a year for a fresh clutch unless I bought a baby now! I'm looking at this little girl right now, she's about 2 months old, only 64grams awww :). She's het albino do you know if they show any specific traits in appeareance as het for albino? She looks very bright... Here is a link to her pics:

    http://www.royalconstrictordesigns.c.../albino11-044f

    Super bright tail, love it. I'd rather pay less though for a none het snake, or perhaps a hypo. Kind of looking for something in the 30-70 range, what would you recommend?

    Thanks soooo much evenstar, you're amazing :)
    fatal

    You are welcome! And it really won't hurt to wait a couple of months. Baby boas are generally available throughout the year. Boas can have LITTERS (not 'clutches' lol...) pretty much any time through the spring and summer. Pythons generally lay their clutches closer to spring time although that can vary too. And the 2011's will still be pretty dang small whether you get one now or wait 1-2 months. Do what's right for YOU and don't rush. A 2011 baby will still fit in that 25 gal tub come fall. :D

    A snake that's het for albino won't show any noticable trait. They will look just like every other normal or whatever their visible morph is. The one you picked out is a very pretty normal but if you only want a pet and have no future plans for breeding, I wouldn't spend the extra $$ on a snake that's het for something - you won't take advantage of those genes so why bother? UNLESS you just have to have that one. In that case, get her! It's ok to follow your heart and spent a little more on a snake you just love. She IS very pretty! ;)

    The babys are ALWAYS going to be brighter than the adults. The bright red in the tails will brown out as they get older. The beautiful salmon/pink of the hypos will turn more orange as adults. Someone told me, if you don't like orange, don't get a hypo! I don't like orange, but I fell in love with Peaches anyway, lol.... :P

    If you are just looking for a normal patterned BCI (common columbian boa) with no special genetics involves (ie: het for something), then you ought to be able to pick one up for $30-40 depending on location and availability.

    Normals that are het for something usually run around $100-150 or so. Hypos and/or anerys run around $150 and up depending on whether there's reduced patterns and upwards of $250 if they are het for something. $300-400 for visible albinos, and more outrageous morphs like sunglows might be $400-600 and up. Snows are going to be pushing $1000.

    And just for kicks, here is Peaches. This was taken the day I brought her home in mid-May. She is about 2xs as large now - growing like a weed, lol. She is a reduced pattern Hypo double het for ivory and ghost. Sorry it's a little out of focus, but I wanted you to see her size in comparison to my hand....

    http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../newboa006.jpg
  • 08-01-2011, 09:39 PM
    Fataltix
    Well I think I still want to get one soon :), but I absolutely CANNOT find any normals!!! The few I've found are from petstores/etc and are 130+!!! Do you know of any breeders right now that have some normals 2011's left or are expecting? special k was all out and so are all the other breeders I've checked :(

    Thanks,
    Fatal
  • 08-01-2011, 10:43 PM
    jason221
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fataltix View Post
    Well I think I still want to get one soon :), but I absolutely CANNOT find any normals!!! The few I've found are from petstores/etc and are 130+!!! Do you know of any breeders right now that have some normals 2011's left or are expecting? special k was all out and so are all the other breeders I've checked :(

    Thanks,
    Fatal

    Look for a reptile expo. There's one by my area in 12 days, and another in September. Depending on where you live, you should be able to find one.
  • 08-02-2011, 01:35 AM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JasonGranger View Post
    Look for a reptile expo. There's one by my area in 12 days, and another in September. Depending on where you live, you should be able to find one.

    Soonest one within 250 miles of me is in 2 months... :(

    Cheers,
    Fatal
  • 08-02-2011, 01:39 AM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    You are welcome! And it really won't hurt to wait a couple of months. Baby boas are generally available throughout the year. Boas can have LITTERS (not 'clutches' lol...) pretty much any time through the spring and summer. Pythons generally lay their clutches closer to spring time although that can vary too. And the 2011's will still be pretty dang small whether you get one now or wait 1-2 months. Do what's right for YOU and don't rush. A 2011 baby will still fit in that 25 gal tub come fall. :D

    A snake that's het for albino won't show any noticable trait. They will look just like every other normal or whatever their visible morph is. The one you picked out is a very pretty normal but if you only want a pet and have no future plans for breeding, I wouldn't spend the extra $$ on a snake that's het for something - you won't take advantage of those genes so why bother? UNLESS you just have to have that one. In that case, get her! It's ok to follow your heart and spent a little more on a snake you just love. She IS very pretty! ;)

    The babys are ALWAYS going to be brighter than the adults. The bright red in the tails will brown out as they get older. The beautiful salmon/pink of the hypos will turn more orange as adults. Someone told me, if you don't like orange, don't get a hypo! I don't like orange, but I fell in love with Peaches anyway, lol.... :P

    If you are just looking for a normal patterned BCI (common columbian boa) with no special genetics involves (ie: het for something), then you ought to be able to pick one up for $30-40 depending on location and availability.

    Normals that are het for something usually run around $100-150 or so. Hypos and/or anerys run around $150 and up depending on whether there's reduced patterns and upwards of $250 if they are het for something. $300-400 for visible albinos, and more outrageous morphs like sunglows might be $400-600 and up. Snows are going to be pushing $1000.

    And just for kicks, here is Peaches. This was taken the day I brought her home in mid-May. She is about 2xs as large now - growing like a weed, lol. She is a reduced pattern Hypo double het for ivory and ghost. Sorry it's a little out of focus, but I wanted you to see her size in comparison to my hand....

    http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../newboa006.jpg

    Sorry for double post.. but D'AWWWW!!! Peaches is adorable :), love the name too! I'm naming my girl Molly, will probably name my daughter (if I am fortunate enough to have one :)) Molly as well haha. Love the name...

    Anywho, I might have to get that femal het I was looking at if I want a snake anytime soon for a decent price. I can't find a single breeder who has or is expecting 2011 baby normals for a decent price (sub 100). Oh well, I love the girl I picked out, the blushing on her tail is gorgeous :).

    Thanks again the for the help star! You are wondeful :).

    Cheers,
    Fatal
  • 08-02-2011, 10:35 PM
    Evenstar
    If you really love that little girl, get her! But did you actually call Tim at Special K to ask him if he had any normals? He had a few at the expo where I picked up Peaches, but he doesn't usually post them on his website.

    Browsing webpages is good, but many breeders only post their higher end morphs for advertising. You might be surprised at what you'll find with a few phone calls!

    AND... I can't tell you how much FUN it was going to the expo and finding Peaches! I went there knowing I wanted a larger snake, but I left myself open to what I'd find. I looked at a lot of boas, but Peaches "spoke" to me the moment I saw her and the experience was amazing! If you wait, you might be glad.... Just a thought!

    :gj:
  • 08-03-2011, 12:44 AM
    Fataltix
    Re: Quick questino in regards to size/caging of for a BCI
    Funny you mention it because I did call them, and while they had normals sadly no females! I've got my heart set on a girl, mostly because I've never owned a female pet, but also on the off chance that I breed boas later down the line I'd love to have a fully grown momma to start off :).

    I would LOVE to get my girl at an expo, but the nearest one is like 6 hours from me and 2 months away! I'd like to wait, but it will be in the middle of classes (18 credit hours next semester :() so I'm worried that I might wait all that time, only to not be able to go! I think I'm going to buy that girl you saw, that het trait will be sweet if I ever decide to breed, het sunglow males are cheap too so... :).

    Thanks again for all your help, I've finally made a decision, mostly thanks to you!

    -Fatal
  • 01-01-2016, 04:10 AM
    carpet
    Great discussion on cage size. If designing a rack for males and female Colombian BCI, do you think the IRIS Tree Storage Box is a sure thing at 14" H x 20" W x 52" L ? Seems based on the discussions here, even a 9' female could fit.
  • 01-01-2016, 11:42 AM
    bcr229
    A 9' female boa would be cramped in an Iris VE-175 Christmas tree tub. If you build a rack using them, plan on housing males in it.
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