Dilemma - Keep or Return

So I went to the Repticon show in Tampa today and bought a male kingpin for $1200. I thought I got a good deal and was thrilled with the full stripe. He was in shed, but I also got to see a few siblings and Im expecting his color to be really nice.

Anyway, I got home and decided to sex him, just for kicks (Im sure you all know where this is going). Turns out HE is a SHE! I didnt see anything when I tried to pop and got 3-4 scales probing.

So, should I keep her or take her back? I really need another codom male, but who doesnt need a codom female? I also do have Daytona coming up next month and the fire show after that. However, this was a decent amount of money for a college student to sink into a snake. Any thoughts?

I would like to add, she was the only one with a full stripe.

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/88170/7...CbZcvmoaGp.jpg

Gorgeous Snake, but if it isn't what you asked for return it save that money for what you really want!

If someone is selling their valuable morhs without properly sexing them, one could argue they deserve what they get......or loose in this case. Are you 100% sure it's a female?

Keep it it's worth way more than you paid, if your morraly concerned then return it.

I would keep it, I agree with lovelace. You could always grow her out some and resell her for more than you paid and get the morph you really wanted and have a profit to boot. But she is really sweet. You may decide to keep her. :)

I would sell her for what she is worth and get what you wanted in the first place. And mabey you will make a few dollars for another project.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by llovelace

If someone is selling their valuable morhs without properly sexing them, one could argue they deserve what they get......or loose in this case. Are you 100% sure it's a female?

---

99.99% sure it a female. I popped and probed her and had a second party pop her too. This is my 4th year hatchling out bps and at least so far (crossing fingers) I havent missexed any of them, so Im fairly confident.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoshBalls

I would keep it, I agree with lovelace. You could always grow her out some and resell her for more than you paid and get the morph you really wanted and have a profit to boot. But she is really sweet. You may decide to keep her. :)

---

Im getting more and more tempted to keep her. She looks REALLY good in my rack. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tye Hicks

I would sell her for what she is worth and get what you wanted in the first place. And mabey you will make a few dollars for another project.

---

That was another question. What is a female kingpin worth? Ive only been seeing males available so far this year. Anyone have an idea?

in my opinion i would keep her she is really pretty and will make some pretty babies too so yea i would keep her :D :gj:

that is a hard one, it would be hard to give up that girl for a male price. But it comes down to what you really need more?

If you decide not to keep her, I'd say sell her... just make absolutely sure you sexed properly, because I guarantee somebody is going to be more upset if it is a male they bought at a female price, than in your case, with a female at a male price.

I would keep her, but I would contact the seller. They deserve to know that they miss sexed a very valuable animal.

The good/proper thing to do would be to contact the seller about the mis-sexing of the snake, and go from there. If the seller understands their mistake and lets you keep it, KEEP IT! She's a stunner, and a female to boot.

And, when you bought the snake, was it "All sales final, NO returns"?

She's beautiful, I vote for KEEPing her... if you can afford to at least. She will make you a lot of money I am sure when you breed her.

Females are usually worth more than males (at least from my experience) and she is one gorgeous snake. I'd say you got a super deal and hang on to her. You mentioned there are other shows coming up. I totally understand your college financial issues, but let me point out that you are young and you have plenty of time. Count yourself lucky and keep this beauty and pick up a nice codom male when your finances allow. I don't think you'll be sorry.... ;)

OR you could sell her to me! :D

How much is a female kingpin worth?

keep her females are always better to have and worth more.

That KingPin is beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would keep her, she is gorgeous!!! If you really want a male than sell her and get a male! I would keep her though! Males are easy and cheap to come by! Save up your pennies and get a male at the next show or even next year but it would be worth it to wait!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

So I went to the Repticon show in Tampa today and bought a male kingpin for $1200. I thought I got a good deal and was thrilled with the full stripe. He was in shed, but I also got to see a few siblings and Im expecting his color to be really nice.

Anyway, I got home and decided to sex him, just for kicks (Im sure you all know where this is going). Turns out HE is a SHE! I didnt see anything when I tried to pop and got 3-4 scales probing.

So, should I keep her or take her back? I really need another codom male, but who doesnt need a codom female? I also do have Daytona coming up next month and the fire show after that. However, this was a decent amount of money for a college student to sink into a snake. Any thoughts?

I would like to add, she was the only one with a full stripe.

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/88170/7...CbZcvmoaGp.jpg

---

i was there today too and bought a pin stripe male for $160.i would keep her for sure.i was told you can charge $2 a gram or something like that.but there lost your gain.i would keep her and not even second guess it.lucky you.lol

keeeeeeeeeeeeeep herrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.lol:snake::snake::snake:

Are you positive he is a she? Reason I ask is that if sexing hatchlings means that males are pretty much 100% males, as hemipenes pop. It's "females" that are sometimes mis-sexed and are actually males.

Though I suppose a tub/deli cup label could have gotten screwed up somewhere.

The better question is how confident are you in sexing snakes. Unless they got mixed up you can't mistake a female for a male but mistaking a male for a female is possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree.. If the person popping knows what they are doing, it's really obvious on a baby male. Those hemipenes stick out like long reddish antennae lol!

As I said before, I am 99.99% sure she is definitely a she. I popped her once, didnt see anything so I grabbed probes and got 3-4 deep on both sides. Then I had a second party pop her as well with the same result. This is my 4th year hatching out bps, and so far at least I havent missexed any of them (at least that Ive been told) so I am fairly confident about my abilities.

Also, the way the seller had them at the show was that there were 4 in the container marked "Male Kingpins". Im thinking that she got placed in the wrong group.

I think Ive decided to keep her. It puts me a year or two behind on my project, but if the female is going to be the kingpin then there are even more possibilities if I get a double codom male too :P

Finally, expecting a male and getting a female does happen. A few years back I picked up a male pastel as a show. This year that "male" laid the 5 eggs in my sterling clutch, lol.

The chances of that mistake happening once nevermind twice is rare! I have a male that myself or a friend could not get to pop out so I thought he may be female so I took him to a show and it took 4 breeders to finally get him to pop! I was told he was a shy male! LOL! He also probed at 3 to 4 scales! If you get 6 or 7 scales then you know for sure but I would get a well experienced breeder(10 years +) to sex it for you! It is better to check too much then to get an upset during breeding! Good luck!

Outof curiosity, how old was he? Ive heard of that with older animals but not with babies.

As to being dissapointed, I doubt that will happen. Considering my worst case is I get what I paid for, Im not terribly concerned about it.

I would keep her. Almost no one lets go of a female that nice. And not at that price.

If you really want something else you have prime trading material there. But I would hang on to her.

I was eyeballing those "guys" today too. I would let the breeder know but keep the animal.

She's hott I would keep her without a doubt but I would tell the seller about the mistake. Congrats she's veeerryy nice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

Outof curiosity, how old was he? Ive heard of that with older animals but not with babies.

As to being dissapointed, I doubt that will happen. Considering my worst case is I get what I paid for, Im not terribly concerned about it.

---

He was 6 months old at the time!

Ah, I can understand that then. This girl is tiny, not even 100g yet. I havent seen a male that can "hold it in" that young.

Well I went back to the show today and found the vendor. Before I could even say anything he asked if I had sexed the kingpin yet. Turns out of the 4 kings he had brought (two in shed, two who had already shed), only the ones that had already shed had been sexed. The two in shed were brought last minute and he had completely forgotten to sex them. He was VERY apologetic and said I could either keep her or trade her for one of the males. I think Ill keep her :D

Wow:O Its your lucky day. She is a beauty;)

I think that's a wise choice. You won't regret it! Glad the breeder was so cool about it. These things do happen. Good for you! :gj:

I would also agree to keep her. Females are worth more and you can't have too many. ^^

Keep her. Not your fault it was sexed wrong.

I voted take her back, but that was before I read that you talked with the breeder on it. To me, it wouldn't have been a question. I would have first thing talked tot he seller about it. It would just weigh on my conscience too long. It's awesome he's letting you keep her! You have a gorgeous kingpin at a killer price!

I see a big difference between getting a great price from someone who has no idea what they have (Craig's List, petco, etc.), and getting a great price due to an error like this breeder did. In the end, it was his fault for not sexing it in the first place.

If I think of it another way, what would you expect a reputable breeder to do? Assume a reputable breeder is buying one from you. You mis-sexed it, and he gets the windfall. If he's a reputable breeder, I would hope he has the integrity to make it right, or at least offer to.

Anyway, I always like to make it a point to sex the snake before I spend the money, if at all possible. Great pickup!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClarkT

I voted take her back, but that was before I read that you talked with the breeder on it. To me, it wouldn't have been a question. I would have first thing talked tot he seller about it. It would just weigh on my conscience too long. It's awesome he's letting you keep her! You have a gorgeous kingpin at a killer price!

I see a big difference between getting a great price from someone who has no idea what they have (Craig's List, petco, etc.), and getting a great price due to an error like this breeder did. In the end, it was his fault for not sexing it in the first place.

If I think of it another way, what would you expect a reputable breeder to do? Assume a reputable breeder is buying one from you. You mis-sexed it, and he gets the windfall. If he's a reputable breeder, I would hope he has the integrity to make it right, or at least offer to.

Anyway, I always like to make it a point to sex the snake before I spend the money, if at all possible. Great pickup!

---

Interesting point, though honestly not quite the way I see it. While I definitely agree that telling the seller is a good idea, (and I hope this doesnt sound too harsh) I do feel like ultimately it would have been my decision whether or not to exchange the animal. Personally I believe that when a mistake is made by the seller, the ball is in the buyers court. If they are unhappy with the animal, they should be able to exchange it for what they paid for. However, if they are ok with the mixup the seller hopefully learns from the experience and moves on.

I would stand by this idea if I had been the seller as well. It would have been my fault for missexing the snake, and I would have no right to demand the animal back if the buyer had wanted to keep it. I took their money and the animal is theirs. Though as I said before, I do think it would be the responsibility of the buyer to inform the seller of their mistake but thats it. Again, I hope this doesnt sound harsh but its the way Ive looked at this for a while.

Its also ways interesting when someone has a completely different view. See, I would feel MUCH more guilty taking advantage of someone who didnt know what they were doing then benefiting from an honest mistake.

I would like to add, it was also my bad for not double checking the animal. Ive gotten into the really bad habit of always checking females and only usually checking males. However, considering this is my second male-turned-female I need to get back in the habit of checking males 100% of the time too :oops:

Well she is a looker and I am sure you won't be sorry for keeping her. I am glad you touched base with the breeder. It shows you have integrity and isn't that all we have in this industry? If you had checked when you bought her would you have pointed it out to the seller or just bought her and kept your mouth shut? I am not accusing you of anything but just wondering? LOL since I never have that much money and things like that never happen to me, I don't have to worry :D

Honestly I would have told the seller either way. However, my expectations would differ depending if money had changed hands yet or not. If I hadnt paid yet I most likely would have handed her back saying it was a girl and might ask if she was still the same price. Then, as I would see it, he would have the chance to say shes a different price or even not sell her. On the other hand, if I had bought her (money changed hands, I walked away from the table, the transaction was definitely complete...) then found out I had a female instead of a male Id still probably go back and mention it. The difference is I would view her as my animal. While if the seller really seemed upset or demanded her back I would give her back, Id be very surprised at their behavior and a little upset. Again, this is just my view.

Sounds fair enough. I stay away from the shows and stuff as it makes my want list grow and grow and my pocket book shrink and shrink :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

That was another question. What is a female kingpin worth? Ive only been seeing males available so far this year. Anyone have an idea?

---

That is because most people hold back the more expensive (if not all) females.