question about multiple BP's

So ive had Jim my 3' male and i just got 2 more a male and a female that live together. The female is very large, probably large enough for breeding. the male is too small to breed. however Jim is probably big enough. I was thinking about putting them all together in the same tank. i had them all together last night and didnt see any signs of aggression so i think i might be all right. its a sixty gallon tank so i think there is enough room.... What do you think about housing multiple BP's together?

It's not a good idea, and it's very stressful for the snakes. Ball pythons should always be housed alone (for their permanent homes).

I'm assuming you didn't quarantine the new ones either.

Maybe you should think about a small snake rack, with tubs instead of tanks for your snakes.

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

It's not a good idea, and it's very stressful for the snakes. Ball pythons should always be housed alone (for their permanent homes).

I'm assuming you didn't quarantine the new ones either.

Maybe you should think about a small snake rack, with tubs instead of tanks for your snakes.

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Especially the quarantine part. Even if a new snake SEEMS healthy, it doesn't mean they are.

well they are in their own tank. Luckily i got the tank they were in before as well as the snakes so the transition was pretty easy. ive also been around these guys for a while they arent random snakes. they have never shown signs of being sick or ill. both are very well mannered. the male is a little skiddish

i was just introducing last night. nobody really seemed stressed out.

im building one right now.. i know the tanks just take up too much space and the racks would be so much easier access.

also the new male and female have been living together for at least a year...i dont know if that would prove one way or the other... i think for right now ill let them hang out when im in there handling them.

The only time two bps should be housed together is very short term for breeding purposes. I would recommend grabbing three sterilite or rubbermaid tubs and set up three individual enclosures for them. Then if you WANT to breed the big girl with your bigger male, you could try doing so intentionally rather than just letting it happen by chance. But before you do decide to breed, think about the fact that you could end up with anywhere from 3-10 MORE snakes you will need to house individually...

good point about the babys... its not that i couldnt feed them. i breed mice so ive got tons of food, its the space.... i guess its definitely something to take into consideration.

Research research research...and then when you feel you've researched everything you possibly can about ball pythons...research some more. This forum has a wealth of information about all aspects of owning and breeding BPs. All its member's knowledge is at your fingertips. People who are exceptionally experienced owners. I would advise you to take all their advice if you want healthy happy ball pythons. QT is a MUST and so is individual housing. BPs are not social and you could risk exposing Jim to disease.

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Originally Posted by cklovestodrum

well they are in their own tank. Luckily i got the tank they were in before as well as the snakes so the transition was pretty easy. ive also been around these guys for a while they arent random snakes. they have never shown signs of being sick or ill. both are very well mannered. the male is a little skiddish

i was just introducing last night. nobody really seemed stressed out.

im building one right now.. i know the tanks just take up too much space and the racks would be so much easier access.

also the new male and female have been living together for at least a year...i dont know if that would prove one way or the other... i think for right now ill let them hang out when im in there handling them.

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Not trying to start anything, but like I said, just because there are no signs doesn't mean they aren't carrying anything. The scary disease everyone talks about, IBD, can take YEARS to manifest signs, and sometimes it never shows signs at all. It's just something to consider, I wouldn't want you to lose your first one because of new ones.

yea its true. well like i said right now they are separated so i guess we will just have to see

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

Not trying to start anything, but like I said, just because there are no signs doesn't mean they aren't carrying anything. The scary disease everyone talks about, IBD, can take YEARS to manifest signs, and sometimes it never shows signs at all. It's just something to consider, I wouldn't want you to lose your first one because of new ones.

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I agree that quarantine is important, but no one is going to quarantine their snakes for years. It would be almost impossible to move anything out of quarantine because you need to reset the quarantine clock when you add a new snake to quarantine. So the fact that IBD can take years to manifest is moot in this argument. Things like internal parasites would be a much better quarantine argument, or something else that can take weeks to present itself. Most people quarantine for 60-90 days, not years.

also considering ive known and been around these snakes for a while and i know the previous owners, im sure they would say something, or i would notice if something was out of their norm... really not to worried about illness. these arent petco snakes.

You still should have quarantined them. They are coming from an environment you have no control over, and it's possible the previous owner might not have noticed something. Animals can be pretty good at hiding any illness they may have. I was simply arguing that saying IBD can take years to present itself is not a good argument for quarantine because no one quarantines for that long.

Edit: Also no one mentioned it, but weight is pretty important when it comes to breeding BPs, so while a snake might look large it might not be as big as you think. When my normal was only 700g I thought she was huge, now she's more than double that. Males can also start breeding pretty small, around 500g possibly less.

yea i wasnt really planning on breeding but it is something im looking into.
yes ive read murphy's

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I agree that quarantine is important, but no one is going to quarantine their snakes for years. It would be almost impossible to move anything out of quarantine because you need to reset the quarantine clock when you add a new snake to quarantine. So the fact that IBD can take years to manifest is moot in this argument. Things like internal parasites would be a much better quarantine argument, or something else that can take weeks to present itself. Most people quarantine for 60-90 days, not years.

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I was giving an example more to the point of why snakes shouldn't be housed together, not that they should be quarantined forever. Not housing together minimizes the risks of any illness being passed along before you notice it. :)

I guess I need to be clearer in my posts. :oops:

Everyone here has given very good points, and as you read more and do more homework on keeping these animals you will see over and over again just WHY you shouldn't house together. Quarantine is probably the most important thing when it comes to owning multiple snakes. Whether you know these snakes and the owner or not, ball pythons can get and spread virus' and diseases very quickly to one another. It takes a long time to show symptoms and it takes a long time for them to recover...if they even do. It can become costly multiple vet bills if one gets sick, even just a simple RI, they all will get sick. Not to mention, they are very secluded and private snakes by nature. They DO NOT want to be forced to live with another snake, never mind 2 other snakes. Ball pythons being picky eaters to begin with, it could cause one or all of them to go off feed due to stress of having unwanted roomates. I also know there are documented cases of cannibalism. It's very rare, but it happens, and I've seen a link (I think by Dr Del...or one of the other mods?) of a ball python that was cut out of another ball pythons stomach. These reasons for housing alone, not even including that if one regurges you won't know which one, if one isn't defecating as usual you won't know which one, it's almost impossible to track anything other than feeding because they all live in the same tank. It's not a good idea any way you look at it. The cons will always outweigh the pros IMO, even for an experienced owner. It's unnecessary stress for the snakes, and can be potentially dangerous. Honestly the only reason IMO that people want to house them together is a) to save money, and if that's the case they shouldn't have these pets to begin with, or b) they are giving emotions to these animals that don't exist, such as loneliness.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

Everyone here has given very good points, and as you read more and do more homework on keeping these animals you will see over and over again just WHY you shouldn't house together. Quarantine is probably the most important thing when it comes to owning multiple snakes. Whether you know these snakes and the owner or not, ball pythons can get and spread virus' and diseases very quickly to one another. It takes a long time to show symptoms and it takes a long time for them to recover...if they even do. It can become costly multiple vet bills if one gets sick, even just a simple RI, they all will get sick. Not to mention, they are very secluded and private snakes by nature. They DO NOT want to be forced to live with another snake, never mind 2 other snakes. Ball pythons being picky eaters to begin with, it could cause one or all of them to go off feed due to stress of having unwanted roomates. I also know there are documented cases of cannibalism. It's very rare, but it happens, and I've seen a link (I think by Dr Del...or one of the other mods?) of a ball python that was cut out of another ball pythons stomach. These reasons for housing alone, not even including that if one regurges you won't know which one, if one isn't defecating as usual you won't know which one, it's almost impossible to track anything other than feeding because they all live in the same tank. It's not a good idea any way you look at it. The cons will always outweigh the pros IMO, even for an experienced owner. It's unnecessary stress for the snakes, and can be potentially dangerous. Honestly the only reason IMO that people want to house them together is a) to save money, and if that's the case they shouldn't have these pets to begin with, or b) they are giving emotions to these animals that don't exist, such as loneliness.

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Very well said

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

I was giving an example more to the point of why snakes shouldn't be housed together, not that they should be quarantined forever. Not housing together minimizes the risks of any illness being passed along before you notice it. :)

I guess I need to be clearer in my posts. :oops:

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I'm sorry if that came off as a personal attack, I didn't mean to offend. I think your point is clear, I just wasn't thinking as I read it the first time. It does bring up a good point that even with proper quarantine you can't catch everything because symptoms can stay hidden for a very long time. This is NOT a reason to ignore quarantine procedures though. There is stuff out there that can kill relatively quickly which proper quarantine can catch before it spreads to the rest of your collection.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

b) they are giving emotions to these animals that don't exist, such as loneliness.

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I love seeing craigslist ads where people are selling 2 BPs that they must go together because they are bonded... I wish I had room and funds to save them all. :(

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I'm sorry if that came off as a personal attack, I didn't mean to offend. I think your point is clear, I just wasn't thinking as I read it the first time. It does bring up a good point that even with proper quarantine you can't catch everything because symptoms can stay hidden for a very long time. This is NOT a reason to ignore quarantine procedures though. There is stuff out there that can kill relatively quickly which proper quarantine can catch before it spreads to the rest of your collection.

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Not offended at all, I just wanted to clarify my point better. :D You really have to have a go at me to get me to get mad on the internet. :P

I think our basic point is that housing Ball's together (or any type of snake) is a basic "no-no". If s/he is REALLY pressed for space, they can put a divider in a tank for the two new ones, and keep them separately from their other Ball while only using one tank for the time being. I know it's not the best solution, but it's better than them being all together.