Spider to normal suprise, comments please.

I know I have heard that BHB has pinstripes that when bred to normal females that all offspring are pins, here is what we have, Spider male bred to two different females the last 2 years and both clutch's those years where all spiders just thought it was interesting.

How many eggs total? Do you know if your spider came from a spider X spider clutch?

4 the first year, 5 this year
no history on the male spider

That's interesting. Want to sell him? I could make full clutches of bees with that guy

I believe I heard that a spider x spider offspring will produce only more spiders. It seems a little dangerous to do since it might worsen their notorious issues, though. Congratulations on the nice clutches. :)

Hi,

It's certainly worth keeping the records going - I have no idea how many it would take to establish it as a most probable homozygous though.

I would probably ask BHB how many they feel they need from their pinstripe to be confident in making an announcement.

I hope it keeps giving you those results. :gj:


dr del

well 9 eggs all in a row leave you with a 1 in 512 chance, so your either very lucky or your on to something, which is exciting either way. See if you can find some more females to breed him to. IF it is homozygous, every egg produced will keep proving it more and more. I wonder if some people in your area wouldn't find letting you borrow their normal females to help prove/disprove it.

Also take some pictures of the clutch :)

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

well 9 eggs all in a row leave you with a 1 in 512 chance, so your either very lucky or your on to something, which is exciting either way. See if you can find some more females to breed him to. IF it is homozygous, every egg produced will keep proving it more and more. I wonder if some people in your area wouldn't find letting you borrow their normal females to help prove/disprove it.

Also take some pictures of the clutch :)

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I will breed him to one of my super pastel female this year and 1 differant normal to see what happens.

Super spider!!!!!

Yes, very interesting. 20+ years into this project about time we get to the bottom of if spider is co-dominant or dominant. Best of luck on another couple good clutches that should be enough to "prove" it one way or the other. I know TSK produced some spider X spider clutches a few years back but I think most (all?) of their holdback spiders to put this to the test where female and harder to eliminate or prove the girls. If he does hold up would be really nice to know if he actually came from a spider X spider clutch or not.

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Originally Posted by phoerner

I will breed him to one of my super pastel female

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That would be interesting to see, wounder if it will be all bees or spiders:confused: At the rate he is going there shouldnt be any pastels at all, right?

That's very interesting. Definitely keep breeding him and keep us posted, I think you may have a homozygous spider on your hands!

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Yes, very interesting. 20+ years into this project about time we get to the bottom of if spider is co-dominant or dominant.

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If there are homozygous spiders, it would still be considered a dominant trait, wouldn't it? Because the heterozygous phenotype would still be the same as the homozygous phenotype if this is an actual homozygous spider that the OP has.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

That would be interesting to see, wounder if it will be all bees or spiders:confused: At the rate he is going there shouldnt be any pastels at all, right?

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It would be all bees, no spiders or pastels if it's with a super pastel.

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Originally Posted by Alexandra V

It would be all bees, no spiders or pastels if it's with a super pastel.

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actually its 50% pastel and 50% bees
but if he is that dominant then it should be all bees unless for some FREAK reason he is dominant enough to over run the pastel and get a spider thrown.
That would be very interesting to see;)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

actually its 50% pastel and 50% bees
but if he is that dominant then it should be all bees unless for some FREAK reason he is dominant enough to over run the pastel and get a spider thrown.
That would be very interesting to see;)

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Aahh okay, I get ya. I was thinking the odds assuming the spider was a homozygous spider, not a regular spider.

Congrats, looking forward to see what you get next season :)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

actually its 50% pastel and 50% bees
but if he is that dominant then it should be all bees unless for some FREAK reason he is dominant enough to over run the pastel and get a spider thrown.
That would be very interesting to see;)

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You are correct that if it is indeed a homozygous spider, bred to a "super" (homozygous) pastel, you should get ALL bees. However, since the female can only throw a pastel gene -- not a normal gene on that locus -- I can't really see how you could possibly get a simple spider.

... Of course, weird things seem to like to happen with these ball python guys -- guess I shouldn't be too shocked if it produces something that shouldn't theoretically be possible :rofl:

Look forward to more shocking news, good luck!

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Originally Posted by Alexandra V

If there are homozygous spiders, it would still be considered a dominant trait, wouldn't it? Because the heterozygous phenotype would still be the same as the homozygous phenotype if this is an actual homozygous spider that the OP has.

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Yes, this potential homozygous spider would be the first direct indication that spider might be dominant. It's been called dominant for years do to the lack of a visibly different super spider but that could also have been explained by spider being homozygous lethal which I think would qualify as a co-dominant mutation.

Would love to see these prove out regularly just to be sure this one isn't a fluke like maybe he is a paradox/chimera and his reproductive organs are one of the few parts that are homozygous spider. If he could be traced back to the breeder to see if he they even did any spider X spider breedings that year it would help to weigh if he is just a conventional homozygous spider or some more exotic explanation. Have to wonder why no other potential homozygous spiders became public in the decades before now.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Yes, this potential homozygous spider would be the first direct indication that spider might be dominant. It's been called dominant for years do to the lack of a visibly different super spider but that could also have been explained by spider being homozygous lethal which I think would qualify as a co-dominant mutation.

Would love to see these prove out regularly just to be sure this one isn't a fluke like maybe he is a paradox/chimera and his reproductive organs are one of the few parts that are homozygous spider. If he could be traced back to the breeder to see if he they even did any spider X spider breedings that year it would help to weigh if he is just a conventional homozygous spider or some more exotic explanation. Have to wonder why no other potential homozygous spiders became public in the decades before now.

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I like to call it unproven dominant. Would be even more interesting if it was a chimera type of thing... ahhh the possibilities. There has been a couple possible homozygous spider claims, one never followed up after making the claim a few years ago and the other one the animal passed away after 9 or 11 eggs all being spider ircc, so that was the end of that. Only 2 I know of.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Have to wonder why no other potential homozygous spiders became public in the decades before now.

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Honestly it isn't that hard for me to envision one having failed to pop up solely on the basis of lack of production. AFAIK, most people with spiders and spider combos aren't breeding them to other spiders and spider combos simply because of the lack of potential new combos from that breeding. Even if it's true dominant, if you can't tell the homozygous from the heterozygous animals it doesn't quite seem worth it to me.

So, if not that many spider x spider breedings are being done, and there's only a 1 out of 3 chance that a spider from such a breeding will be homozygous in the first place -- added to the fact that not every snake breeder posts on forums routinely .......... I could see it happening.

I've only ever heard the one report of the homozygous pinstripe from BHB, but it's well accepted that pinstripe is true dominant simply based on that report.

... Then again, I could also easily envision that whatever defect causes spiders to be neurologic in heterozygous form causes early embryonic death in homozygous form.

... Man, do I geek out about this stuff! :rofl:

Here they are 3.2 spiders from a spider male to a normal female second year in a row that all eggs are spiders when bred to a normal female. I also noticed the pattern is extreme also.
Comments PLEASE

http://www.rodents4u.com/allspiders/...20(Medium).JPG
Thanks Phil

How about a picture of the male spider in question?

I will try to get one tommorow night for yah.

Good luck proving him out:) You should invest in a pastel girlfriend for him:D