feeding live rats

so our local petstores dont have frozen rats for my ball python so i was going to have my mom pick up a small live rat after she gets off work.i was just wanting to make sure about feeding them live befor i get her to get a live rat.are live rats better that f/t rats.give me some tips and pointers about this.do any one feed there snake live and do yout ever have problems feeding them live?????

i don't really know which is better but my snakes eat f/t(frozen/thawed)
its cheaper for me and i can buy them in bulk you know what i mean?
easy to store and there always on hand when i need them.plus if the snake wont eat it that time i just refreeze it and offer it again at a later date/time

There's no problem feeding live as long as the rat is the proper size and you supervise the feeding. As for which is better, live or f/t I don't think there is much difference nutritionally.

well i feed my snakes live all the time but i always watch them in case something happens. its because i breed my own rats and live its easier for me but during the time when my rats are not breeding i have frozen ones and most of my balls would take them just have to move it alot but the truth is i dont know if live is better then frozen.

Live or frozen are the same as far as nutrition. A FT rat never bit a snake. But live is fine if you watch and don't allow the rat to stay in to harm the snake. Bites from rats CAN happen though.

You shouldn't refreeze rats that you've thawed to feed(especially if you heated them up properly to attract the snake's attention).

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Live or frozen are the same as far as nutrition. A FT rat never bit a snake. But live is fine if you watch and don't allow the rat to stay in to harm the snake. Bites from rats CAN happen though.

You shouldn't refreeze rats that you've thawed to feed(especially if you heated them up properly to attract the snake's attention).

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oh yeah? why's that?

for the above, it's just never a good idea to defrost and refreeze meat of any kind, especially if it's been heated...

and you could always just kill the rat first so your snake doesn't become accustomed to live and it'll make the switch to f/t easier...

Just kill the rat... same as F/T.

I breed my own feeders and feed all of my BPs live. There is no difference in nutritional value though. Can the rat bite your snake? Yes, while being constricted it may if in position to do so. As has already been mentioned, just monitor and have Feeding tongs ready (if you don't have tongs a pencil will work in a pinch) if you see the rat trying to bite. Never leave a live rat in there for any period of time unsupervised. One advantage I like about feeding live, if they do not get eaten, I can just put them back into their tub with the rest of the feeders.

We feed all live and have had no problems. Like stated above if they dont eat it well, it's not a waste. With F/T if they dont eat it's wasted. We have to many snakes for them to not eat and have to throw away a bunch of rats.
As for the never re freezing them. Once they are thawed and warmed and left for awhile they will start to harbor bacteria. Just like with humans you dont thaw out a stake and the refreeze it.

I raise my own feeders as well, this lets ME control the quality of my snake food. I returned a few rats to the local pet store because they just didn't look healthy.
As stated earlier, ALWAYS supervise when feeding live rodents to snakes; I purchased a used recliner for my reptile room just so I could watch them comfortably.

The only thing that happens if you re-freeze it is it gets a little more squishy. Nothing bad happens other than that though. But don't do it more than once or you might start getting a load of bacteria in the rat/mouse/whatever's gut cooking up.

My advice is to feed the live rat, and monitor the entire process--meaning watch the whole thing. Sometimes the snake might not get a good hold on the prey item, and its head could be sticking out and trying to bite your snake. In this case, make sure you have something on hand for the rat to bite (instead of your snake). They will usually go for the head so the rodent can't inflict any harm. They usually suceed at this, but sometimes don't.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

The only thing that happens if you re-freeze it is it gets a little more squishy. Nothing bad happens other than that though. But don't do it more than once or you might start getting a load of bacteria in the rat/mouse/whatever's gut cooking up.

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That "squishy" is the guts deteriorating due to the deomposition process beginning.

If you do have worries about not being able to react on time to a misstrike or not up to take any chances with your snake, kill the rat first feed it prekilled. So much easier, honestly, besides the horrible feeling every time you do it yourself. I get a little squirmish about the idea of breaking their necks and smashing their heads against something but I have to so.. I do. But whenever I can I try to use CO2. Better for me and the rat.

just make sure that youre watching them as theres been plenty of times when a live rat is left unattended with your snake and depending on the size they can get vicious. Ive never seen a weaner rat harm a snake but for the large ones well they can be bad news, either way just keep an eye on it so it doesnt come to any bad news later.

This debate over ft/pk vs. live has been beat to death on probably all reptile, snake forums.
I lost a red tail to a rat bite, supervised. In the time it took to flip the lights off and get the lid unlatched and off was enough for a fatal bite. Make sure you can get to them quick, I made it too hard to get to her in time, and she died for it.
Last f/t I got was from Petco, my guess is it had thawed and refrozen, when my bp hit it and squeezed it popped like a nasty little gut balloon, it was gross to clean up, in the viv. and off my bp.

Was the rat that you fed a large rat...smaller rats tend not to be so vicious compared to adults but still i wouldnt leave them there for too long in case the bp is not in the mood. I have seen bps kill them and leave them there so its a waste but i have never had a problem with bites with smaller rats. Adult rats on the other hand i wouldnt trust so id probably or most likely beat them on the head to daze them and then feed them off but if you can do f/t or p/k then thatd be your best bet but itll take alot longer for them to feed then if you fed live.

Think about the investment you have in your snake, hundreds of dollars maybe more. Add the love and care that you give to your snake.
Then put that snake in with a live rat, sooner or later you will not be quick enough and the snake will pay the price.
We have all heard the horror stories of what can happen and it's sad every time.
I have never heard of that happening with f/t.
I would rather throw out a hundred rats than one snake.
Just my .02 cents

With 60+ animals that's exactly what we would be doing. Throwing out 100 rats. Most likely every month. We feed upwards of 120-150 rats a month. Feeding f/t just plain isn't realistic. It's easy to feed f/t when you have a few animals and would be throwing out a few rats but when you are throwing out 100s of dollars a month it becomes a different story.

so we can all agree that its all up to personal preference and need...just make sure if live, youre on it like white on rice or youll end up with an injured or worse yet a dead snake.

Then you know the risk you are taking and thats fine for you.
I feed about that amount also per month but only thaw 20 at a time so if one doesn't eat it goes to the next so I have very little waste. I admit it may take longer but I can drop and go with no risk or worry.
Just works for me.

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Originally Posted by deathadder1069

so we can all agree that its all up to personal preference and need...just make sure if live, youre on it like white on rice or youll end up with an injured or worse yet a dead snake.

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Your right

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Originally Posted by ScottNBecky

With 60+ animals that's exactly what we would be doing. Throwing out 100 rats. Most likely every month. We feed upwards of 120-150 rats a month. Feeding f/t just plain isn't realistic. It's easy to feed f/t when you have a few animals and would be throwing out a few rats but when you are throwing out 100s of dollars a month it becomes a different story.

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I do know where you are coming from, but after reading all the posts and how most are convinced that live is very dangerous unless supervised.. Does this, what you have said above, mean you are feeding live, and unable to supervise each feeding? With that number I'm sure it is feasible to get a tank of CO2, you should be able to get it in any local pet fish store. Since you do an average of 30+ a week, CO2 would be able to kill all of them quickly, painlessly, all in one go. Then you can just throw them in and not worry, if they do not take in an hour, freeze them. Then feed them in the next feeding session, I'm sure they would be finished off.

I don't feed live anymore ('Cause Axel's on f/t!!! yay!!) but when I did, I held the rat by the tail. Gave the snakes a nice clean headshot, and took away most of the danger of getting bit. The only reason I feed f/t is I feel it's more humane to the rat, obviously, and is sooo much cheaper in the long run. I'd have no problem going back to live if I had to, though.

I've found that f/t was more expensive in the long run. I looked up buying ft mice online. The smallest amount most will sell is 25 mice. RodentPro sells only 50 which is $22.50 for a bag. Tack on another $41.76 for shipping. That's over $60. Petsmart sells ft mice as well. 4 adults for $10. It's cheaper to just buy live and kill them myself.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

I've found that f/t was more expensive in the long run. I looked up buying ft mice online. The smallest amount most will sell is 25 mice. RodentPro sells only 50 which is $22.50 for a bag. Tack on another $41.76 for shipping. That's over $60. Petsmart sells ft mice as well. 4 adults for $10. It's cheaper to just buy live and kill them myself.

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You're actually paying $1.29 per mouse from RodentPro, and $2.50 at Petsmart, which is just under twice as much. Unless I'm completely retarded and missing something?

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Originally Posted by spitzu

You're actually paying $1.29 per mouse from RodentPro, and $2.50 at Petsmart, which is just under twice as much. Unless I'm completely retarded and missing something?

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There's another store where I can buy live mice for $1.25.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

That "squishy" is the guts deteriorating due to the deomposition process beginning.

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No, actuallly. The 'squishy' is the ice crystals from being frozen several times, tearing the cells of the body apart. ;)
It happens with meat and veggies too. Try putting a green onion in the freezer, and see how mushy it turns, it's because it doesn't have the 'strength' to withstand the ice crystals when it's freezing, and as they grow, they rip the onion to pieces (microscopically). :)

Pre-killed is also an option. And if they don't take it the first time, you can always freeze it and try again later on. And if you breed your own, you can sell the excess too.

My savannah gets pissy sometimes, and will refuse a mouse (always pre killed) so i just freeze it and sell it and offer her another on another day. :)

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

No, actuallly. The 'squishy' is the ice crystals from being frozen several times, tearing the cells of the body apart. ;)
It happens with meat and veggies too. Try putting a green onion in the freezer, and see how mushy it turns, it's because it doesn't have the 'strength' to withstand the ice crystals when it's freezing, and as they grow, they rip the onion to pieces (microscopically). :)

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Regardless, re-freezing a defrosted and heated prey item is not a 'best practice' in keeping reptiles.

I refreeze once if it's refused and have had no issues at all. If it's refused a second time (which it NEVER is because I give any refrozen rodent to my normal garbage disposal...) I toss it.

for every one to know i fead her the live rat and we didnt have any prob's at all.

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Originally Posted by gardenfiend138

Regardless, re-freezing a defrosted and heated prey item is not a 'best practice' in keeping reptiles.

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Of course not. :)
But times is hard! :rolleyes:

Ewww last night I ripped off my first rat tail doing a c/d :-[
Thankfully the one tug did it!

I feed live and I've never had any problems before. But tonight the rat gave her a little nip in the back of the neck. She's not dripping blood or anything but I can see a little bit of red. Is there any reason to be worried or will this heal up on it's own?

I hear shedding helps heals those things. It's probably like any other animal, the skin will heal like normal over time, but the scales won't be repaired of damage until it's shed and replaced.

Well that kinda sucks, she just shed a few days ago. Any antibiotic ointments that would help? Like Polysporin? Again, it's not a deep cut since the rat didn't have much leverage. She maybe lost 2 or 3 small scales.

I'm no expert, but as long as she isn't actively bleeding I don't think it's that big of a deal. Every animal gets scrapes or cuts (or bites), there's nothing you can do but wait for it to heal; just hold her gingerly for the next couple of days if you take her out, otherwise just let her be and she'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by gardenfiend138

Ewww last night I ripped off my first rat tail doing a c/d :-[
Thankfully the one tug did it!

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What's a c/d and why did you rip off the rat tail? I'm introducing my BP to a f/t rat on Monday. Just wondering if I am missing something.

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Originally Posted by JChristine23

What's a c/d and why did you rip off the rat tail? I'm introducing my BP to a f/t rat on Monday. Just wondering if I am missing something.

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C/D is cranial dislocation, basically breaking the rats neck. Pin the rats head to a table with a ruler or something and pull the tail to break the neck. I'm surprised the tail would come off but then again I've never tried it. I don't have the stomach for that, I'd rather let the snake do the killing lol.

On another note my snakes wound seems to have healed. I got a bottle of Betadine and now I can't even see where she got bit.

We've fed live and are just recently going to try and switch them over to F/T. We are pretty sure the rats we bought were offered to another snake before we purchased them and transferred mites to ours. Most pet stores offer a return for store credit deal and you may come in and buy a rat that was offered to a snake with mites within the last few hours, bring it home and infect your own collection. Its safer to buy F/T in that sense. As for nutritional value, I don't think there's that much of a difference. Keep in mind though, that ALL food when frozen loses SOME nutritional value over time, and most people don't recommend keeping frozen feeders for much longer than 6 - 9 months.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Robonarc

C/D is cranial dislocation, basically breaking the rats neck. Pin the rats head to a table with a ruler or something and pull the tail to break the neck. I'm surprised the tail would come off but then again I've never tried it. I don't have the stomach for that, I'd rather let the snake do the killing lol.

On another note my snakes wound seems to have healed. I got a bottle of Betadine and now I can't even see where she got bit.

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Mice can be euthanized with the tail yanking/ neck breaking method. For Rats, all you do is pull them tail off, hurt the rat, cause a mess, and turn off your snake from eating.