What is the significance of a "ringer"?

Hey all! I have been searching through the archives for over and for definitions and explainations of the significance of a "ringer" and have not been able to find any answers.....

I see a lot of advertisements that say 'normal female with ringer' or "spider with ringer' etc.....I thought (please correct me if I am wrong!) that a "ringer" was a white or yellow obvious mark on a het pied snake that is a "marker" or "sign" that is is het pied......

But I see all types of morphs with "ringers" that are not advertised as het pied.....as an example in your photo....is that female het pied? so her "ringer" is her het pied marker?

I guess my questions are:
#1 is a yellow ringer and a white ringer the same thing?

#2 does a "ringer" only signify if a snake is het pied?

#3 if not, then what is the significance of other 'ringers'

Examples:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ghlight=ringer (this does not say anything about the snake being a possible het pied...?)

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ghlight=ringer
(how about this one? is she just a normal? or are they insinuating that she may be het pied?):confused:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ghlight=ringer
(this one is 50% het pied....but because of the ringer that probably means he IS het pied?)

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ghlight=ringer

Ok I think you all get the idea. I just purchased a pastel 100% het pied with a MAJOR ringer (so much so that we thought he *could* be a pied, just the most minimally white pied EVER, haha, ;) but really is just a ringer)


I would just appreciate some "Ringer 101" info....thanks all! :)

Het pieds seem to throw a lot of ringers, but it's not proof. Ringers turn up in snakes that are not het pied. I've got a female with a ringer. She is het pied. I saw pics of her clutchmates, and the other hets did not have ringers.

It's a neat thing that happens once in a while, but it doesn't mean anything for certain.

They look cool!

Ringers usually happen with het pieds, I had some ringer cinnamons and super cinnamons from the same two cinnamons when paired together, ringers arnt exactly genetic more of just a random occurance that seems to pop out

Here is a link check out post #15
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...genetic+ringer

I've produced a couple het pieds with ringers but there are plenty of ringers that are not pied related. For example neither of these animals are het pied...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...01/ringers.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I've produced a couple het pieds with ringers but there are plenty of ringers that are not pied related. For example neither of these animals are het pied...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...01/ringers.jpg

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That's actually the thread I did read and was wondering if that female was het pied....or the ringer was nothing more than a crazy marking. I just see people advertising snakes with ringers and I didn't know if that meant they were something special over and beyond what they already were (like the pewter with the ringer....he's just a pewter....with a marking that means nothing really)

Thank you all for the clarification. I just tend to see SO MANY ads now that have "high gold ringer" etc and I didn't know if that was a sure-tell sign of something.

Good to know :)

Haven't gotten him yet (needs to shed and eat) but here he is with his 2 pied clutchmates....

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...5/1/ringer.png



He came from a Piebald X Pastel Het Pied breeding. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tikigator

Haven't gotten him yet (needs to shed and eat) but here he is with his 2 pied clutchmates....

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...5/1/ringer.png



He came from a Piebald X Pastel Het Pied breeding. :D

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Awesome snake, he's really cool!

As far as I can tell, ringers are just odd balls. Pun definitely intended. :D

Ringers have nothing to do with het pieds, although a lot of het or supposed het pieds have them.

Truthfully, I bet if you did an in-depth study, you'd find more non het pied ringers than het pied ringers. People for some reason tend to claim the ringer as an indicator of a het pied, but it's not always.

Yellow ringers and white ringers are the same thing, the color change is based on the snake's body color.

The fastest way to tell a low white pied from a ringer is the pattern. A ringer has the standard alien-head pattern of a normal ball, with a patch of white usually rimmed in orange of various sizes.

A true low white pied may carry what appears to be a ringer, but the body pattern is all wrong. The pied gene shatters the standard pattern into streaks, splotches and squiggles that may or may not contain something vaguely resembling an alien head.

I'm posting a pic of my own low white pied, so you can see what I mean. While his only "pied" marking could easily be a ringer spot, you can tell by his pattern he's pied.

Gale

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...kes/Yakul2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...kes/Yakul1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angllady2

As far as I can tell, ringers are just odd balls. Pun definitely intended. :D

Ringers have nothing to do with het pieds, although a lot of het or supposed het pieds have them.

Truthfully, I bet if you did an in-depth study, you'd find more non het pied ringers than het pied ringers. People for some reason tend to claim the ringer as an indicator of a het pied, but it's not always.

Yellow ringers and white ringers are the same thing, the color change is based on the snake's body color.

The fastest way to tell a low white pied from a ringer is the pattern. A ringer has the standard alien-head pattern of a normal ball, with a patch of white usually rimmed in orange of various sizes.

A true low white pied may carry what appears to be a ringer, but the body pattern is all wrong. The pied gene shatters the standard pattern into streaks, splotches and squiggles that may or may not contain something vaguely resembling an alien head.

I'm posting a pic of my own low white pied, so you can see what I mean. While his only "pied" marking could easily be a ringer spot, you can tell by his pattern he's pied.

Gale

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...kes/Yakul2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...kes/Yakul1.jpg

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Thank you for your response and your photos!

Yeah at first when I saw the pic I thought he could be one of those "worlds most minimal white pieds ever" but the pattern did give it away. I am still very excited to see what he produces though....and even if he isn't a true "piebald" he sure fooled me for a few seconds ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tikigator

That's actually the thread I did read and was wondering if that female was het pied....or the ringer was nothing more than a crazy marking. I just see people advertising snakes with ringers and I didn't know if that meant they were something special over and beyond what they already were (like the pewter with the ringer....he's just a pewter....with a marking that means nothing really)

Thank you all for the clarification. I just tend to see SO MANY ads now that have "high gold ringer" etc and I didn't know if that was a sure-tell sign of something.

Good to know :)

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You have to take a good look at any animal that is advertised as "high yellow" or "high gold." Sometimes it may be a person's way of saying that they are a very light or exceptionally yellow example of a particular morph, as in a "high gold" example of a pinstripe or a spider could be a one with less prominent brown tones and exceptional yellow tones, and it's cool to charge more for a great specimen as long as the person buying isn't being tricked into thinking that he's buying more than he's getting.. A ringer is just a ringer. I don't see anything wrong with charging a little more for a ringer if you want to and let the buyer know that it's not some foolproof marker for something else.

I've seen "high yellow" and "high gold" used to describe a very nicely colored normal. Unfortunately I've also seen a few individuals use this terminology and tack a very high price onto a normal. While I don't see anything wrong in charging a little more for a normal that is better than average, I've seen people that are new to snakes and who don't understand what is and is not a morph misled into paying morph prices for a pretty normal. Personally, I would not do this. I hate to see someone who is new to snakes turned off from the hobby by being ripped off.

I figure that if you're charging a little more for a very nice looking normal, that is cool, but let the buyer know that he's buying a very nice normal and not a true morph. The more people who own snakes, the more people we have who share our interests and the stronger we are when someone tries to pass legislation to restrict our ownership of the animals we enjoy. It benefits all of us if new people join us in keeping snakes. It harms us all when newbies get disgusted from being ripped off and get driven away.

My $0.02.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angllady2

As far as I can tell, ringers are just odd balls. Pun definitely intended. :D

Ringers have nothing to do with het pieds, although a lot of het or supposed het pieds have them.

Truthfully, I bet if you did an in-depth study, you'd find more non het pied ringers than het pied ringers. People for some reason tend to claim the ringer as an indicator of a het pied, but it's not always.

Yellow ringers and white ringers are the same thing, the color change is based on the snake's body color.

The fastest way to tell a low white pied from a ringer is the pattern. A ringer has the standard alien-head pattern of a normal ball, with a patch of white usually rimmed in orange of various sizes.

A true low white pied may carry what appears to be a ringer, but the body pattern is all wrong. The pied gene shatters the standard pattern into streaks, splotches and squiggles that may or may not contain something vaguely resembling an alien head.

I'm posting a pic of my own low white pied, so you can see what I mean. While his only "pied" marking could easily be a ringer spot, you can tell by his pattern he's pied.

Gale

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...s%2FYakul2.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...s%2FYakul1.jpg

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Is this bottom photo a ringer or an extremely low white pied? I ask because I am looking at an 8 ball apparently pied and it's very similar. Almost all normal but around the belly has some broken up white in it's normal pattern. I'm wondering is it's actually a pied. Thanks!!