Baby Ball not accepting food

OK, my first post so I will try not to make any noobie mistakes.

I've read a lot of the forums over the last few days trying to see if I have missed something in getting my 2 month old BP to eat again...I say again because the week after I adopted her from the breeder she took down not 1 but 2 pinkie mice. The second week she took down a fuzzy mouse. Now, 2 weeks later I can not even get her to look at food. I have tried pinkies, fuzzies, nothing. (Her sister died a week back from an unknown issue and did not eat for 3 weeks so I am of course paranoid). (Her sister ate the first week but never again). Doctor says she appears healthy and no signs of mouth rot and doesn't believe she has RI ether. I have been giving her antibiotic for the last week as a precaution. Heat and humidity have not changed, 80,82-85,88 gradient with hot spot and hot cave 90-95. Humidity at 40-60, usually 50 average. Cool cave is lined with moss and kept damp.

Any suggestions would be awesome. I have tried scenting with gerbil too with no luck...out of ideas. Oh yeah, she weighed in at 46g at doc office and now 45g week later.

Need picture of the setup and be very detailed on the setup.

Babies not eating is due to owner error with the setup.

95 is too hot, I keep my cool end between 75 and 80. The antibiotic could be why she won't eat. How do you read temps? And you don't know how the sibling died...were they housed together?

What are you offering for food and is it f/t, p/k, or live?

Im not sure exactly how old mine were when I got them but I don't believe they were much older than 2mths if they were even that old but they weight 67 and 70 grams, now 2mths later they are 106 and 117 and eating whenever they are offered food.

The first time I feed them after 2wks, the first they refused and the 2nd week they also refused then I decided to assist feed them a pinkie mouse and have eaten everyweek since.

Pinky Mice are too small and not a good food source or ball pythons. Pinky rats would be the smallest meal i would ever offer a hatchling.


Like stated, when a hatchling refuses to eat its owner error on proper setup.

I thought the meds might be affecting her eating. As far as the temps, I had it at 78-85 during the day and 75-82 at night. I was told by the breeder that I needed to increase for babies, said the adults are fine with what I had but babies warmer. The BPs never stayed to the cold side so I figured they are were content with the temps...at times in 90-95 area, then to 85 areas (middle), then to cool side cave at 78.

Doc said setup was fine, Cyprus bark at the bottom 1.5" deep, UTH on hot side controlled by Repit-therm, combo deep dome fixture on hot side with a 50w day heat lamp and 50w night bulb. Fixture is mounted so I can raise or lower the height to control temps if house temp increases or decreases. The tank is a 20H glass. I have 2 glass thermometers in the tank for accurate temps working on getting a better humidity gauge. As I said before though, nothing has changed in the setup. I had this thing running for a week prior to getting the BPs to insure it ran perfect.

Doc didn't say anything about the weight to us, I felt she should be closer to 60-70. Food being offed are live, breeder feed live so I did not want to switch before they got used to new home. Did not touch them for a week after home ether, until feeding time.

Back ground on myself, before marriage I housed 2 BPs, Red Tail, Br Ranbow, and a Blood. This would not be my first go at this for sure. I never had such young BPs. My red was this young but ate like a horse. Same with others. Never had this issue with other BPs ether.

Rich, breeder feed pinkie mice, I feed pinkie mice. I was not going to change food right after getting them, that would be stupid.

BTW, since it is my fault that BPs are not eating, by all means tell me the proper setup. Please enlighten me...

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Originally Posted by Vini Sourile

I thought the meds might be affecting her eating. As far as the temps, I had it at 78-85 during the day and 75-82 at night. I was told by the breeder that I needed to increase for babies, said the adults are fine with what I had but babies warmer. The BPs never stayed to the cold side so I figured they are were content with the temps...at times in 90-95 area, then to 85 areas (middle), then to cool side cave at 78.

Doc said setup was fine, Cyprus bark at the bottom 1.5" deep, UTH on hot side controlled by Repit-therm, combo deep dome fixture on hot side with a 50w day heat lamp and 50w night bulb. Fixture is mounted so I can raise or lower the height to control temps if house temp increases or decreases. The tank is a 20H glass. I have 2 glass thermometers in the tank for accurate temps working on getting a better humidity gauge. As I said before though, nothing has changed in the setup. I had this thing running for a week prior to getting the BPs to insure it ran perfect.

Doc didn't say anything about the weight to us, I felt she should be closer to 60-70. Food being offed are live, breeder feed live so I did not want to switch before they got used to new home. Did not touch them for a week after home ether, until feeding time.

Back ground on myself, before marriage I housed 2 BPs, Red Tail, Br Ranbow, and a Blood. This would not be my first go at this for sure. I never had such young BPs. My red was this young but ate like a horse. Same with others. Never had this issue with other BPs ether.

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My first babies too and was stressing because they were so young, mine won't even think about it's food unless it was live and are now eating rat pups or asf's hoppers. Slowly moving them up in size till I get to the just right!

Could it be that he just has not settled in yet?

Well first, your temperatures are all over the place, Which is one indication why its not eating. Temps need to be properly measured and controlled. As so humidity needs to be properly measured and controlled. Get digital thermometer and not stick on dials ones.

Another is you have a 50g baby is a 20g tall tank. That baby should be in a 5-10g tank at most, or even better a 6qt plastic bin. Your doc/vet is just that, they dont know the first thing to properly housing reptiles. Ive yet to see a vet know what their talking a bout when it comes to proper care of reptiles. Theres very few that know the requirements of reptiles.

you need to have a 78-80 cool side and a 88-90 warm side. This needs to stay constant 24/7 with no night time drops. Also need a thermostat to control the temps properly to minimize stress and overheating.

Food needs to be offered live till they are eating. Offer either live pinky rats or live hopper mice. Dont stand over the snake and gawk at it, drop the mouse / rat in and walk away. Neither will harm the snake and will help with privacy.


And till all this is fixed, no handling till snake eats for you 3-4 times consecutively

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Originally Posted by Vini Sourile

Rich, breeder feed pinkie mice, I feed pinkie mice. I was not going to change food right after getting them, that would be stupid.

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Then you came here to the site for nothing. Pinky mice for a ball pythons is STUPID. They have no nutritional value to the snake what so ever. Its waste of time and money to even offer them.

If your not going to take the advice to properly offer food then why ask.

I think really the only problem you have is too big of an enclosure.

I would suggest a small simple tub set up with a heat pad for belly heat controlled by a thermostat, and your temps and humidity should be almost perfect with maybe a little tweaking.

I don't think what the OP is doing is stupid, they were just misinformed. =\

I would try a hopper or small adult mouse your next feeding day. Try once a week to feed, if you can't find weanling or baby rats.

Rat fuzzies would be the way to go food wise. Also, I'd suggest a smaller enclosure (you can get a 15qt tub cheap at Target or Wal-Mart if you don't want to purchase a new tank). A small water bowl..two small hides (give your BP a tight fit for added security) and you can use a small UTH (Under the tank heater) with a thermostat to heat it. Tubs are easy to keep temps and humidity. Oh, a digital hygrometer/thermometer can be picked up cheap too under $15 most places and that is one with a probe. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Well first, your temperatures are all over the place, Which is one indication why its not eating. Temps need to be properly measured and controlled. As so humidity needs to be properly measured and controlled. Get digital thermometer and not stick on dials ones.

Another is you have a 50g baby is a 20g tall tank. That baby should be in a 5-10g tank at most, or even better a 6qt plastic bin. Your doc/vet is just that, they dont know the first thing to properly housing reptiles. Ive yet to see a vet know what their talking a bout when it comes to proper care of reptiles. Theres very few that know the requirements of reptiles.

you need to have a 78-80 cool side and a 88-90 warm side. This needs to stay constant 24/7 with no night time drops. Also need a thermostat to control the temps properly to minimize stress and overheating.

Food needs to be offered live till they are eating. Offer either live pinky rats or live hopper mice. Dont stand over the snake and gawk at it, drop the mouse / rat in and walk away. Neither will harm the snake and will help with privacy.


And till all this is fixed, no handling till snake eats for you 3-4 times consecutively

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Every care sheet I have read says night drops of 5 degrees. I do have a heat grade...78-80 cool side and 85-90 hot side. sometimes 2 degrees more due to house change. Not sure why you say my temps are all over. Thermometers are glass, not dial...the kind used to calibrate digital ones. They are feed in a closed box 7"x7" in a room by themselves...no gawking as you put it. I have a 20H tank because I had 2 BPS, and have had snakes in smaller tanks but heating grades are not the greatest in 5-10 gallon tanks.

As far as the doc goes, she is owns numerous snakes, BPs, boa and berm. She might not be perfect but I didn't bring a snake to a cat doctor.

I will attempt to place in a 10g I have and see if that helps. She ate 2 meals in this one so I'm not sure why she not good now in the 20H. But, I will try it.

Don't feed in a separate container, try it in their enclosure. It can be very stressful for a baby to be fed out of their house.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Then you came here to the site for nothing. Pinky mice for a ball pythons is STUPID. They have no nutritional value to the snake what so ever. Its waste of time and money to even offer them.

If your not going to take the advice to properly offer food then why ask.

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Sorry Rich, I was waiting for advise, not just empty blame.

Everyone else is helping, you not so much in the beginning. I did not say anything more then the breeder had them on pinkie mice and did not want to switch the food until they were settled. I usually feed fuzzies or hoppers to babies, pinkies are not much more then fluid and skin.

Not to diss you Rich but sometimes I feel many are quick to jump to certain conclusions and find someone to blame. I dont think his temps are all over i think he was just referring to his temp gradient.. I dont think his temps would really be 80/82/85/88. If its a 20g tall the floor space is about that of a smaller one, its a little big but i think it shouldn't be horrible if you just clutter it a little more if it isnt already. Yes pinky mice aren't the best food source but he has his reason. You could suggest increasing it to a hopper or subadult but don't jump on him over it so fast. Just let him know.

So, back to responding to the post, as many have said, slightly large cage, and as I have said, fill it up. Best thing you could do for now if you can't get a smaller one. Black out the sides and back if you have not already done so, helps with security. Night time temp drops are not necessary, I know many care sheets have said so but really is not. If it happens, so be it, but it does not need to be deliberate. Some breeders do it, some dont, both successfully.

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

Don't feed in a separate container, try it in their enclosure. It can be very stressful for a baby to be fed out of their house.

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Tried that too bud, no luck.

Smaller tank and feeding in the cage will help wonders in getting it to eat properly.

I keep all hatchlings i hatch in 6qt tubs and they have 81 cool side and 91 warm side with no effort. Tanks you will soon realize are not best option for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AkHerps

Don't feed in a separate container, try it in their enclosure. It can be very stressful for a baby to be fed out of their house.

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x2

I use to feed mine out of its cage, I just don't go in unless you absolutely have to when they are in feeding mode because they will strike at everything that moves lol

I have never had one of mine strike me in their cage, just the hog island when he was in a seperate feeding container and not ready to be handled and put back yet after eating :O

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Originally Posted by Vini Sourile

Sorry Rich, I was waiting for advise, not just empty blame.

Everyone else is helping, you not so much in the beginning. I did not say anything more then the breeder had them on pinkie mice and did not want to switch the food until they were settled. I usually feed fuzzies or hoppers to babies, pinkies are not much more then fluid and skin.

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Which is all the more reason to stay away from that breeder. The breeder was skimping of food to save money and increase his/her profits. Which explains why yours is still the size of babies out of the egg rather double the size in the 2 months its been hatched.

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Originally Posted by ogdentrece

Not to diss you Rich but sometimes I feel many are quick to jump to certain conclusions and find someone to blame. I dont think his temps are all over i think he was just referring to his temp gradient.. I dont think his temps would really be 80/82/85/88. If its a 20g tall the floor space is about that of a smaller one, its a little big but i think it shouldn't be horrible if you just clutter it a little more if it isnt already. Yes pinky mice aren't the best food source but he has his reason. You could suggest increasing it to a hopper or subadult but don't jump on him over it. Just let him know.

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I just placed a new rock (not heat rock) in the empty space in the middle to increase shadow area and hiding. Also blocked off the view of 3 of 4 sides of the tank and put a 2" black strip in the front so the view from the floor would see the black, not the room. She has a cave on the cool side just big enough for 2 BPs to squeeze in, hot side has a log up against the back for privacy, they really love both hides and use often. There are 2 more days of meds and then she will be off of it. I will allow her to stay in w/o visits for 3 days then attempt food again. I'm just not sure when assisted feeding will be required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Which is all the more reason to stay away from that breeder. The breeder was skimping of food to save money and increase his/her profits. Which explains why yours is still the size of babies out of the egg rather double the size in the 2 months its been hatched.

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Good point about the money, never thought about it. Is a fuzzy or hopper a good size? She did like the fuzzy i gave her on week 2. I have heard that the rat pups smell different and some BPs will not take to them right away.

Hoppers are weaned mice just old enough to be on their own. About 10grams in size give or take few grams.


Also your last post kept saying THEY like the hide. Are you housing 2 snakes together. If so this is your major reason to the one not eating.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Hoppers are weaned mice just old enough to be on their own. About 10grams in size give or take few grams.


Also your last post kept saying THEY like the hide. Are you housing 2 snakes together. If so this is your major reason to the one not eating.

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I had 2 BPs from same clutch, always stayed together in the enclosure. I have had 2 BPs in same enclosure before without a problem so never though about it. The weird thing is that they both ate after the first week of solitary and then on week 2 the one I still have ate the fuzzy/hopper with no issue, both times in a separate container.

Would the antibiotic be a big reason for not eating now? I kind of thought it would be a stress on the baby to have a drop of meds in the mouth every night.

If your still housing them together, one has already taken dominance of the cage. this in turn makes the weaker less dominant snake stressed and not eat.

When they lay in same area on top of one another, its them fighting for that spot.

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Originally Posted by Vini Sourile

Would the antibiotic be a big reason for not eating now? I kind of thought it would be a stress on the baby to have a drop of meds in the mouth every night.

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Yes as its stressful. Is there a reason the vet is giving you meds to give to the baby. And what is the name of the medication.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Yes as its stressful. Is there a reason the vet is giving you meds to give to the baby. And what is the name of the medication.

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Med is Baytril. The second BP died after we had her for 3 weeks, not sure why. It sounded like this one had a slight click at times and did the whole mouth part open thing many times which made me think RI.

Well if this snake is on baytril for URI then its ideal you get the setup on point ASAP.

Either the snakes came with URI from breeder or while in your care, thats for you to decide. But while on medication, they hardly ever eat. And being this young Baytril can be very hard on the internal organs. When given orally it hardly works well.

You want high humidity and temps higher than normal when treating URI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Well if this snake is on baytril for URI then its ideal you get the setup on point ASAP.

Either the snakes came with URI from breeder or while in your care, thats for you to decide. But while on medication, they hardly ever eat. And being this young Baytril can be very hard on the internal organs. When given orally it hardly works well.

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As we speak I am building a 10gal setup. I can't imagine the baby getting RI once I got her with the temps never reaching below 75-78 degrees. Now she is no less then 80. She's been on med for 7 days now, 3 more to go according to vet. No more mouth open issues for 4-5 days now. Mouth is clear and never had mucus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vini Sourile

As we speak I am building a 10gal setup. I can't imagine the baby getting RI once I got her with the temps never reaching below 75-78 degrees. Now she is no less then 80. She's been on med for 7 days now, 3 more to go according to vet. No more mouth open issues for 4-5 days now. Mouth is clear and never had mucus.

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Offer food about 2-3 days after the last round of meds. Be sure humidity is high and fresh water. Baytril has been known to dehydrate babies while on the meds.

After the meds and RI is gone, give another week or two to settle back into new tank. Offer live hopper mouse or rat fuzzy. If no interest right away, leave it in over night if needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Offer food about 2-3 days after the last round of meds. Be sure humidity is high and fresh water. Baytril has been known to dehydrate babies while on the meds.

After the meds and RI is gone, give another week or two to settle back into new tank. Offer live hopper mouse or rat fuzzy. If no interest right away, leave it in over night if needed.

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Does 1 drop sound correct for dose? Bottle says 100mg/ml. How low can her weight go before I need to assist feed her?

1 Drop for her size is plenty. Being small her organs cant take too much otherwise she could die from organ failure.

Ive never used oral as it dont work that well. So the doasge will be different than injections.

This might help. And might be how your vet is doing the dosings.

Routine: 5 mg/kg IM/PO q 24h
Resistant: 10 mg/kg IM/PO q 24h

IM- Inter-muscular injection
PO- Orally

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

1 Drop for her size is plenty. Being small her organs cant take too much otherwise she could die from organ failure.

Ive never used oral as it dont work that well. So the doasge will be different than injections.

This might help. And might be how your vet is doing the dosings.

Routine: 5 mg/kg IM/PO q 24h
Resistant: 10 mg/kg IM/PO q 24h

IM- Inter-muscular injection
PO- Orally

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Thank you Rich.

I am reducing the size of her water dish, making a new cool side hide now out of a small container and placing moss in for humidity. I will keep humidity between 60-70% and temps 82 cool, 90 hot. What of body weight though? When should I be concerned about starvation/death?

It has eaten so it wont starve anytime soon. Once meds are done, offer food like i stated and do so at night time. And leave it over night if needed if the snake dont eat right away.

If after 2 atempts and still no go on eatign, then you will want to pre kill the mouse and assist feed it.


TO assist feed grab the snake just behind the head, supporting the body. Use the mouses head to work along the snakes mouth till it opens its mouth. Then once open put the mouse in to the back of throat. The snake should bite down almost immediately and begin eating/constricting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

It has eaten so it wont starve anytime soon. Once meds are done, offer food like i stated and do so at night time. And leave it over night if needed if the snake dont eat right away.

If after 2 atempts and still no go on eatign, then you will want to pre kill the mouse and assist feed it.


TO assist feed grab the snake just behind the head, supporting the body. Use the mouses head to work along the snakes mouth till it opens its mouth. Then once open put the mouse in to the back of throat. The snake should bite down almost immediately and begin eating/constricting.

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Again, thank you for your help. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot, just got defensive with the earlier short posts.