I Think Dora is Star-Gazing. Help!

When i started having snakes as pets, I read alot about them and i once read about Star-Gazing. My ball python is a year and a half old on avarage. She was doing very well, but i didn't feed her for a month. Now like 2weaks ago i fed her a hamster. after That she was going into shedding and she started looking upwards all the time. In my mind came star-gazing. and after i read on the net that she could be looking upwards due to shedding. After she shed last weak she continues to look upwards. till now she's still doing it. its been going on for over a weak now. So im thinking this is IBD. I don't want my snake to live like this if its IBD and i read on the net that there is no cure for it? is this true? IF So what are my options? what can i do? i apriciate all the help. Thanks.

Hi,

Does she have her mouth slightly open when she is staring upwards?

Is there any sound when she is breathing?

Is there any sign of excess mucus in her mouth?

How long does she spend looking upwards?

Have you added any new animals to your collection recently?


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Does she have her mouth slightly open when she is staring upwards?

Is there any sound when she is breathing?

Is there any sign of excess mucus in her mouth?

How long does she spend looking upwards?

Have you added any new animals to your collection recently?


dr del

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I Can see she has some bubles of salava on the outside of her mouth. i didn't test for the breathing nouse. she's 24/7 staring upwards in strange positions. i have added no animals to my collection.

sounds like RI to me. It could kill her if not treated promptly.

What are the temps in her enclosure?
How are you monitering the temps?
hows the humidity?

I personally would take her to the vet asap.

Sounds like you should take her to the vet immediately...
It definitely sounds like something is wrong, if not IBD than possibly a respiratory infection...

By the way, why the heck would you feed your snake a hamster???
In general you should stick to mice or rats, your snake can get spoiled on the hamsters and not want to take other food. Plus you would be better off feeding frozen thawed rats, rather than live feedings, live rodents can seriously injure your snake if you are not careful...

Besides why a hamster???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamieH

sounds like RI to me. It could kill her if not treated promptly.

What are the temps in her enclosure?
How are you monitering the temps?
hows the humidity?

I personally would take her to the vet asap.

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But is there any treatment? as far as i read.. there is not treatment. im currently out of money. vets charge alot of money here. so im avoid a vet bill to just tell me its untreatable. the snake is looking upwards 24/7 like that star-gazing snakes pictures i saw. its like she's stuck in those positions. doesn't hide anymore. Thats why i came here, to see if its really true that there is not treatment to this.

First off there is no way for you to know for sure if it is IBD, it could just be a respiratory infection and the snake is struggling to breath. There is no way for us to tell you what the exact problem is... That is why a vet visit is required.

Do you have a warm spot of 90-92F, and a cool side of 80-82F? If not the snake has probably become ill because it is too cold...

If the cage is not setup with these temperatures you should make it so immediately.

Im no expert

but, from what I have read about RI (respitory infections) I would bump the temps up ( but you never said what they are to start with :confused:) and switch substrate to paper towels or newspaper until the problem is resolved.

On another note. I agree with Ham, why did you feed your BP a hamster? (not trying to judge or be rude, just asking) becuase hamsters cost quite a bit just for feeding purposes, and if you can affford to feed your BP hamsters (on a regular feeding schedule of every 5-7 days) you should be able to take it to the vet.

She has a hot spot in her place. The temps i can't check them now because i lost my tempgun moving from my apartment to a new apartment. i had thermostat set at the correct tempretures and last i check the temps in the other apartment they were perfect altough its been a bit long. The thermostat is broken, but now its summer in malta and the weather is very hot here. last i asked they told me i should turn off the heatmat here in summer because of the very hot temps. the reason i fed a hamster... i feed my snake rats, i feed live its been like that for as long as she's alive, please i don't want to get in a frozen vs live argument. latley i lost my number of my rat suplier and here its not easy to find rats unlike mice so for once i fed her a hamster. but please, i don't want to go discussion on what i feed my snake. i know the risks and everything. What i want to know then, what should be my next step? vet visit?

I dont want to make you feel like I want to debate everything you do for your snake. I was just asking, so I could (hopefully) give you advice about what to do next for the well-being for your snake. ( I feeed live too, but thats not the point)

Ok, so it sounds like youve been doing everything right.

One more question, did you turn the heatmat off already?

If you did, it might have dropped the temps enough that she could have gotten a infection. I would turn it back on, and bump the temos up in her enclosure ( try to find your temp gun asap, or try to get a new one) only a few degrees. and I would keep the humidity 50-55% (everything Ive read says to keep that about the same)

Like I said, I am by no means an expert. but given the information youve provided this is what I would do, until I could take her to a vet. (but please do so as soon as you have the money)

I would check your temps, make sure they are correct, then get the snake to a vet. It sounds like a respiratory infection at the very least.

Maybe just take the snake to the vet first, but without a thermometer there is no way to tell if your temps are correct, just becuase its hot outside does not mean the temps are proper in the snakes cage. I live in Phoenix Arizona and it can hit 120F in the summer and I still need to keep an eye on my temps.

Hi,

RI's - fairly common and definately treatable.

IBD - fairly rare but not really treatable as far as I know.

Take your snake to a vet, ask for a culture from the throat to determine the best drug to use but get it started on a course of antibiotics in the meantime.

And don't feed it hamsters unless you can be certain of getting enough of them to make up its whole diet. :P

In your post you say your thermostat is set correctly but then you say it is broken - did you mean your thermometer is broken ?

If so buy another one - temps are really not the things you want to guess about when keeping reptiles.


dr del

Well I agree with what others have said. It sounds like a RI. You mentioned bubbles on the outside if the snakes mouth. This is a common sign of an RI and a later sign. Which means if it is RI the snakes had it for a while. So when your seeing bubbles and mucus around it's mouth and mucus on the sides of it's enclosure it's beyond just raising temps, this snake needs antibiotics. I would get temp gun get the temps and humidity right and get some meds. Good luck and hope all ends up well.

Your snake really needs to see a vet, whether it's a respiratory infection or possibly IBD.

The reason she's adopting that position is because it opens her airway up to allow her to breathe a little better.

IBD is the first thing most people seem to think of because it is a huge bugaboo. But that is like hearing hoofbeats and thinking "zebras" instead of "horses." Unless there have been cases of IBD in your collection, you're probably seeing a plain old respiratory infection. And that is very treatable. It's also potentially deadly if not adequately treated. Years back, I lost my first and favorite Ball Python, Kaa, to a respiratiory infection he developed after he nearly froze to death. Back in the day most vets didn't know what end of the snake was looking at them unless you pointed out the eyes and there wasn't a whole lot known about treating snakes. They were considered to be weird cold blooded things that medicine didn't really work well on.

Now it's a different story. Vets know much more about treating snakes. Your snake has a very good chance of surviving if you take him to a good herp vet, or even a good vet who can call up a herp vet and get advice. If I were you I'd do as others have suggested and check your snake's environment and correct any problems there, and take that guy to the vet pronto.

Hope it comes out well for you.

I don't know how, but i left dora without food for sometime and now she's all good and back to normal again. no more star-gazing, no more saliva from the mouth. im feeding her and she's all ok. is there anything i need to worry about, should i still take her to a vet?

I don't think you should be guessing on here - you really need to see a vet. If you don't have the cash, perhaps call the vet and ask for a payment plan.

Let me just say that looking up is not necessarily star gazing. Star gazing is when the snake is uncontrollably moving backward and it looks painful. Just looking up could be anything. If you are seeing bubbles than a vet check is a definite.

How long does it take for your snake to move when you approach it?

Quotes from Jeff Ronne (while he is a boa guy, he has a wealth of knowledge about snakes)

"the negative star gazing you do not want to see is a result of loss of proper neurological balance in the head. This makes the animal not only look up like that at times, but when crawling normally, the Boa will come to an obstruction, the head goes back and back and back sometimes until it literally reaches back around and touches it's own back. The reaching around and touching the back is at a point so close to the location of the head itself, they almost seems to be folding over backwards. It looks extremely painful though I don't think it is. It is a movement that you would only see when they are actually doing it. It is not something you would ever see a normal snake do."

Another quote of when a snake video was posted.
"that is what is called "star gazing". Classic symptoms that the knee jerk reaction is IBD. Your Vet will tell you it's IBD because almost every vet on the planet believes what has been written about IBD. However, your Boa has a short circuit in it's nervous system that is causing him to be confussed and do that twisty thing with his head. The cause of the symptom may or may not be life threating. He may get over it. He may not."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlEYTD5fpnI

Probably everyone who would see this video would agree this snake has central nervous system (CNS) symptoms. Most people will automatically claim this snake is the prime example of what IBD is. However, according to the guy who submitted the video, the snake had cancer. When he took it to the vet, he put it down and through the necropsy and stuff, cancer was determined.

IBD is very serious but because we know so little about it, we tend to overreact many times due to our ignorance on the topic. Not every snake that has CNS issues has IBD and not all snakes that are looking up have CNS issues.

I quarantine my snakes in glass aquariums because I want to see mites, I want to see everything that is going on with the snake. I have noticed that when a snake is in glass, they tend to look up more because they can smell the fresh air that is coming down on them.

In my pvc enclosures, they will sometimes look up also but they know the doors open from from higher than where they are sitting. When I walk in and get close, sometimes they move immediately and other times they start flicking their tongues. If I move my hand closer to them, usually they will back up and move their head down.

I want to point out that you hadn't fed the snake in a while. It might also be waiting for another prey item.

Good luck. Whenever in doubt, a vet check is always the best solution. (A good vet anyways)

Star