Weird...kinkys...confused....

Sorry if this gets confusing....

Alright, so months and months ago, I kept two males from one of my rats first litters. One of the males stayed with her. They've produced babies many, many times. Siamese dumbos and black self dumbos every time. Nothing out of the ordinary. So it seems as if there aren't any "hidden recessives". The other male went around randomly. The most recent bin (let's call it bin9) he's been in, he's never been in before (however, his dad had, and nothing out of the ordinary was produced), 3 new females for him. Well, I got babies from them and there are two strange ones. Curly whiskers, weird wavy fur....looks like a rex. Neither the male or any of the females are rex though. It's still very young, but it looks different than the hairless ones I've seen.
Could it be one of the other recessive kinky fur and whisker types I've read about? I thought they're really hard to find though??
I don't know, this is all just confusing me seeing as the mom and son have never produced something strange. The dad and bin9 never produced something strange. But then I put the son in bin9 and two weird little things come out.
Can someone please think of an explanation so I don't lose my mind trying.....
:confused: :rolleye2: :confused:

Could be hairless. They start out kinky furred, and then lose it. :P

Don't be surprised by hidden recessives, they can hide forever!

Maybe one of the adults is a loose rex?
A lot of adult rex's lose their wavy coat and "loose" rex's never have very curly whiskers.
Breeding a double rex to a double rex makes 75% double rex, 25% mixture of standard coats and loose rex's so I read.
I say that because most of the double rex breeding's I've done resulted in food
so I don't "know this for a fact, lol.

There are several recessive genes that could cause hairless or alterations of the coat. A photo might help narrow it done, but after they molt their first time, it should give you a pretty conclusive answer.

Satin coats are very similar to Rex and I believe originated from the Rex gene, sometimes they can go unnoticed until they have Rex-ish babies. Because even though they broke off into their own coat standard, you can still have a rat which by Satin standards is poor, be a rather attractive looking rex.

http://www.ratregistry.org/satin.htm

Rex will pop up from time to time. When I used to breed strictly PEW years ago it would pop up from time to time. I didn't know what it was and I would just feed the babies off fast. Fortunately I also bred burms then so rats could be fed off almost instantly whenever I felt like it LOL.

I will post pictures once they get a little older and it's easier to see their coat. Right now, they're still very little and my camera blows, so you can't really see the coat well in the pictures. The little boy is a Siamese. The little girl appears to have a light colored mask (probably beige). Their whiskers are very curly and their coat, very wavy.
The mother and father are both smooth with plain ole' straight whiskers. They look like normal rats, neither satin nor rex. I will also get some pictures of them up.
I'm thinking the babies are probably just hairless.....I just find it strange that mother and son have produced none time after time. And father and bin9 never produced any time after time. It just randomly happened the first time the son was in bin9.

Ive bred pew and hairless and eventually got rid of all of them but one maybe and litters later months later id get a hairless in the mix. Snakes say thems tasty too:snake:

Here's one of them....
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6130407a.jpg
And here's a close up of the other...
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...P6130418ab.jpg

Give it a little longer. ;)
You'll know for sure what they are once they open their eyes.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Give it a little longer. ;)
You'll know for sure what they are once they open their eyes.

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They've opened their eyes....and I still don't know what they are :confused:
What are various signs I should be looking for to help me identify what they are? They're still hairy and as wavy as ever.
The little boy has stolen my heart though. He's freakin adorable and so friendly and loooooves licking. So he'll be sticking around.

Where did you get them? I know some breeders work with fancies as well as feeders and mix genes to see what comes out.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Where did you get them? I know some breeders work with fancies as well as feeders and mix genes to see what comes out.

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I hope this makes sense.....

I got the mother in bin9 from someone on here that was getting rid of their rats. She had babies and I kept the blackest one. I then paired the blackest with a Seal-point Siamese female that was from a rattery. I kept a little Siamese male....he grew up....he went into bin9....they had babies and now I have two weird little babies and I don't know what kind they are.

Ahhhhh, mystery ratses. I get some weird ones sometimes too. It's pretty cool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Ahhhhh, mystery ratses. I get some weird ones sometimes too. It's pretty cool.

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Hahaha, yep! I love when I get weird colors and/or coats unexpectedly.

Ugh.....I told myself I wouldn't get attached to anymore rats. No more rats I love, no more heartbreak when something bad happens. How did this little boy get past my guards?!
He is the sweetest little thing ever. LOVES to cuddle up and fall asleep with you. And LOVES to lick. Now that he's walking a ton, I've also already taught him to come and run over and climb onto my hand when he is called. He caught on incredibly fast.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6160532a.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6160537a.jpg

He was cleaning his face :love:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6160553a.jpg

Looks like rex to me. If he was hairless, his hair would be thinning out by now.

Looks rex to me too which means one of the parents is a rex.
Rex coat's do not just pop up, it's a Dominate trait and has to be present in one of the parents to be passed along to the offspring.
Color could be beige, I can't really see the eye color

Yeah, so far his hair isn't thinning out at all. It's just getting thicker every day.
His parent's hair is as straight and normal as can be and I know rex is dominant....that's why I was thinking that maybe it's some other type of recessive kinky hair rat?
And in the pictures, it doesn't show it well, but he does have points (dad is a Siamese). But his coat is kind of a variegated pattern (like mom).
I'll get some pictures of the parents today.

*Note: the parents ears are still healing from a mite outbreak I had a little bit ago. They are almost back to normal now. So if you can see little bumps on their ears, that's why.

Anyways, here are the parents....
Here's the mom. She's a weird variegated. Parts of her are black and then random patches are a very pretty light brownish color and then of course their is the white. I have produced more like her. It doesn't show right away though. The babies will start out black and have the same pattern as mom, then as they age, they'll get those random color patches.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6180594a.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6180597a.jpg
Here's the dad. He's still pretty young. I hate how his eyes glow in pictures.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6180598a.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P6180599a.jpg

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Looks rex to me too which means one of the parents is a rex.
Rex coat's do not just pop up, it's a Dominate trait and has to be present in one of the parents to be passed along to the offspring.
Color could be beige, I can't really see the eye color

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True in 99% of the cases, but it can pop up seemingly randomly from standard parents. ;)

I don't know how to explain it technically, but it can be hidden, and pop up in later generations similarly to how a recessive works. It happens in mice too, a friend of mine 'moustress' has had this happen several times.

I'm pretty sure the 'brownish' patches on the female rat are called 'rusting'.

Are you sure some rogue male didn't get a hold of the female :rofl:

I love how his eyes glow pink, that's an awesome eye color.
I'm not overly fond of red eye rats but pink and Ruby eyed rats are sweet IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

True in 99% of the cases, but it can pop up seemingly randomly from standard parents. ;)

I don't know how to explain it technically, but it can be hidden, and pop up in later generations similarly to how a recessive works. It happens in mice too, a friend of mine 'moustress' has had this happen several times.

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I've never heard of it happening, know of any articles written on the topic?
Being a Dominate trait I don't see that happening but I am all ears :D

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I'm pretty sure the 'brownish' patches on the female rat are called 'rusting'.

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Looks like it, most of my black rats browned out in the rear end area, lol. It seems to happens more in the Berkshires and English/Irish rats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Are you sure some rogue male didn't get a hold of the female :rofl:

I love how his eyes glow pink, that's an awesome eye color.
I'm not overly fond of red eye rats but pink and Ruby eyed rats are sweet IMO.

I've never heard of it happening, know of any articles written on the topic?
Being a Dominate trait I don't see that happening but I am all ears :D

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Hahaha. Well, he's the only male that's been in there with her for a pretty good amount of time. I unfortunately don't have any adult or young rex in my colony (although, maybe now I do??).
I like the ruby eyes. It actually looks like the little boy has ruby. I've never been too big on the red and pink eyes though, but they are growing on me. I just don't like it when they look like lasers in pictures.
I've also never heard of rex randomly popping up like a recessive. And how do they know it's actually rex and not a different recessive kinky hair?? I'm very interested in learning more about this.

The only kinky curly hair I know of is Dominate Rex and Dominate Velveteen or true recessive hairless.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The only kinky curly hair I know of is Dominate Rex and Dominate Velveteen or true recessive hairless.

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There are more. One is actually called Kinky.

I've never heard of kinky.

http://pmgrattery.webs.com/ratinfoandkinkyinfo.htm
http://www.arsrats.com/kinkyinfo.php

I've been kind of thinking I have a Kinky...his hair is exactly as described...short, dense, and wooly.

I'm almost certain you do NOT have a kinky. Notice how those links explain that the kinky gene really doesn't exist outside of labs except for in one or two ratteries.

What you have is almost certainly a rex. Their coat is also short. . . dense. . .and wooly.
And your photo doesn't resemble the photos on the sites either.

Haha, I was completely joking about me having a Kinky.
If he is a rex will he be a normal rex? And when I bred him, it will act dominantly?

Assuming it's rex, and popped up in the way i described (though I'm still not sure how dominant traits get carried, and have no idea where to find a study) then if you bred him it should act dominantly. If it doesn't, I would assume you have found a recessive rex gene, I think there's something like that in the UK rats? Or am I completely off, maybe it's aussie rats that have recessive rex?

Cute little one. I just started breeding rats and never really knew of all the different types. It is hard not to get attached to every one.

My rex's and a double rex hiding in the back.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/PICT5841.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/PICT5844.jpg

bunch of rex's and doubles
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/PICT5853.jpg

UPDATE: From 2-4 weeks, he started getting VERY thick and wavy fur. Then around 4-5 weeks, he started losing a lot of hair...not bald, just thinning out and losing the super wavy fur. I figured it was one of two things, either he's just a hairless and is going bald OR it's just a major shed (as I recently had a normal fur rat also shed around the same age and had the same super thinning hair type shed).
He's now almost 6 weeks old. And from about 5 weeks til now, he's been gaining hair. It's a weird thin but fuzzy type hair and then he has a ton of long weird hair all over him...they're different than the guard hairs on my other male rats. And I don't remember my other male rats getting guard hairs around 5 weeks anyways?? Maybe I just don't pay attention...
He seems really different. He's not like the hairless rats I've seen and he's not like the rex rats I've seen.
I recently had another litter (same parents as his)....and guess what?! Two more weird little things! So two litters from these parent's, two weird things in each litter, AND what's weird is that most of the litter is a variation of different pattern black babies, except the four weird babies...all four have had red eyes.

Pictures!! YAY!! Everyone loves pictures! Haha.
So here is the original male. It was hard to capture a good picture of his overall coat as his fur is light colored and very short....and my camera isn't very good. The flash kept washing him out and making it look like he had big bald patches. He's has NO bald spots. Just a strange short coat with what looks like crazy fibers EEEVERYWHERE (like the little fibers that go in your eye and are terrible because you can't see them. Haha). His coat is somewhat rough, but that doesn't surprise me as he's a male. His younger sister, from the second litter containing these strange little things, has that same strange short coat, but hers feels like silk. Maybe it'll get a little rougher as she ages?

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P7311298a.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n.../P7311297a.jpg

ALSO, he and a female from his litter (a normal furred one) had babies two days ago. I got three more strange ones in that litter!