everything is so wrong with this set up...where do I start?

Hi everyone

I got a new ball python 2 days ago. Im a novice, as in this is my first snake as an adult. we kept them when I was a kid, but I obviously didnt have anything to do with the husbandry back then.

Any way, hes approx 3 yrs old male. a little over 3ft. as soon as I looked at the set up I knew it was wrong, I still offered to have him, and bought him home.

The glass viv is 3ft x 1.5ft the guy who had him, had it set up with a hide and heat mat on one end, and a heat lamp the other end with water bowl. no hide that end. No digital reader only stick on ones at the back (I will be buying some proper ones today) the substrate is like a bark type, but its absolutely filthy. filled with bits of poo and skin, where its clear he has not has a good shed.

I know these dials arent accurate, but the humidity read under 20 and the thermometer read 60 (stuck on the back wall)

Ive put the lamp, over the heat mat, the water bowl in the middle to try and bring the humidity up and have srayed down the warm bark hide with water. the humidity dial now shows over 20, but this is still not high enough?

where do I start??

The guy who had him was feeding him mice too small (I think he should be on small rats?) I fed him last night 2mice and he strike fed fine. I thought it would be better to get the first feed out the way, so I can sort the viv out and handle him after, while hes not hungry. I know they can get stressed and go off their food, and I thought the stress of the move, and then a major clan of the viv might upset him, so I fed him last night.

he seems quite healthy to me, again, I am only a begonner. I handled him at the previous owners house and he seemed ok. I dont think he has been handled an awful lot in the last few months, so Im not planning on handling him soon, or untill he's had another feed and the set up is right.


Wow...such a long post..sorry guys..If you havent fallen asleep reading this, I would welcome any advice and suggestions.
Thanks

Wow, where to start....Start out by buying a new bag of substrate and replacing the old substrate. His might have mites on it, judging by how dirty it is. So be sure to examine your BP for mites. You can choose to go with the repti bark, which I personally like, or aspen. Then get rid of those stick on temperature dials. They are pure garbage. I would then buy an accurite, to get a better look at the temperature and humidity in the tank. You don't need the heat lamp over the heating pad. I would place it on the opposite end. I would buy a dimmer for the heat lamp, because on full blast, it likely gets too hot, and its sucking up all the humidity. Next I would get a temp gun. This thing is a life saver when it comes to measuring the temp of certain spots, like the substrate over your heating pad, or the heating pad itself. From there, you really need a thermometer for the heating pad, because without one, its being operated at full blast, and is likely burning your snake. And finally get another hide for him, preferably one thats identical.

Don't worry about feeding him for a week. Let him get adjusted to his new home. In that time, don't handle him. Let him get use to everything.

Hello, and :welcome: to BP.net.
It sounds like you already have plans to replace the dial gages with digital ones. Since you just fed your new snake, wait 2-3 days before handling or making alot of changes to the tank. In addition to cleaning the tank and changing the bedding, make sure there are 2 snug fitting hides, identical is preferred, so the snake won't choose one over the other for security and not thermoregulate. Something else you can do to help with the snakes feeling of security is to cover three sides of the tank. You can use any kind of colored paper, aquarium scenery, or contact paper.
I wouldn't use the lamp, unless you absolutely need it to keep the ambient temperature up.
The heat pad needs to be controlled so that it doesn't get too hot. The easiest way to do this is to use a thermostat. I'm not sure which ones are available on the UK or European market, but the only one that I can think of is called Habistat. You can also use a lamp dimmer. These are usually available at home improvement stores or hardware stores that sell lighting supplies. These are alot cheaper, but you will need to monitor the temperatures more closely to keep them correct. Here is a link to a thread with photos of one, which will give you a good idea of what they look like.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Instructions

To help with humidity, you can cover about 90% of the top with aluminum foil or plexiglass, unless you need to use the lamp, and then you would need to leave a spot for that. If you do need the lamp for supplemental heat, I would place it either on the end with the heat pad, or closer to the center of the top. Make sure that you don't use a white lite in the lamp. A red bulb or Ceramic Heat Emitter will work great and UV light is not really needed. Also make sure that you don't set the tank where the sun can shine directly into it.
Hopefully, some of the UK members will see this and suggest places or websites where you can purchase some of the supplies.
Here are a couple of more links to threads which should help out or give some ideas of ways to set up the tank.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...p-w-pics-*DUW*

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...tment-Tutorial

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...16#post1567516

First thing, get the temperature controlled. Thermostat and either digital thermometer with probe or a temperature gun to measure floor temps. Thats the most urgent I think. Then when you've got the time get started on cleaning up the ENTIRE enclosure. Take everything out, throw away what you need to, bleach everything else down. At the same time soak your snake. Get the new substrate in get the clean furniture in and you're more or less ready to go. Use PAM (prevent a mite) on everything and him too if necessary. Monitor humidity and act accordingly. Monitor health and act accordingly. At least that would be my list of priorities, in that order. If I were you I would try to do it as quickly as possible altogether as I would prefer he get settled down ASAP. Even if it means a little more stress today. Unless of course its gotten beaten up and really cant take another blow. In that case its at your discretion.

Wow, thankyou for such detailed replies. I plan to clean him out over the weekend as I only fed him last night. I must say I'm slightly nervous of picking him up as he hissed at me earlier when I went to mist the tank :/

I didn't get out of work until almost 7 tonight so no digital readers yet.. If I don't use the heat lamp, will the heat mat provide enough heat? Its using a habistat but I think I'm going to buy a new one of those too, this one looks ancient!

Thanks for your advice, believe it or not I have read up on so much before committing to have him.. Now he's here it seems to be forgotten and it seems to be sensible thing to do to ask other experienced people! Lol
Thanks, Naomi x

When they hiss, continue doing whatever your doing. It's all bark, and no bite. It's a threat they don't usually follow through with. If you let the hiss deter you from doing anything with them, then that lets them know thats the best method to get you to leave him alone. So he'll do it all the time.

The current advise is very good so I won't bother repeating it again. I'll just comment on some other ideas. Things can't be too dire if the little guy is eating. Accurites are fine but basically the same as the rest I don't like them as they are large and bulky so personally I'd buy a very cheap digital thermometer forget a digital hygrometer they are woefully poor. The best hygrometers I have tested (I am up to 8 models from 6 companies now) the best so far is the western instruments analogue dial type Brass bezel, that has a calibration set screw sold for humidors. You can find them at most cigar shops, they are around 8-16$. The last item is going to sound a bit odd but a liquid crystal stick on thermometer that has a range of 70-80. Don't stick it on anything just use it to check your digital ones. They are on a whole very accurate compared to most digital ones (digitals are usually -/+2ºF LC are usually -/+ 0.5ºF)

I would definitely leave him alone, don't handle him or anything. Everyone touched up on things that should be changed, I just wanted to add that if you are keeping the UTH or getting a new UTH you will need a thermostat. I know the UTH may not seem to be getting very hot, but in fact my small UTH was reading over 130 degrees with my temp gun, which is far too hot. I'll also +1 on the digital thermometer, those analog ones are garbage. If your ambient temp in your place is above 75ish I'd definitely ditch the lamp, it's killing the humidity and that with the UTH on full blast is probably frying the poor thing. Congrats on the new pickup :)

I think you are off to a great start.

Your best bet is probably going to be to replace all the old equipment with new stuff as soon as you can. Since heat is critical, start with a thermostat and digital thermometer. And get some clean, fresh bedding! The UTH is probably good, they last a long time usually.

From there, ditch the heat lamp if you can and work on bringing up the humidity. If you want, you can get a digital humidity gauge, or if they have shops near you that sell pipes, cigars and such, get one designed for cigar humidors.

Once the heat and humidity is stable, then you can worry about changing prey size if needed.

Just take it slow and focus on one thing at a time so you don't overwhelm yourself.

Gale

I was kind of thrown into snake ownership too. Thank god for the internet and specifically this site.

If you look at a digital gauge angllady2 suggests check to see if the calibration dial that is usually on the front moves easily the one I started with does move very easily and the snakes keep re-calibrating it them selves the additional cost and lower accuracy I don't believe it to be worth the effort. Why people are so anti analogue I don't know. The analogue one I mentioned is spec'd at +/- 3% the digital one (I paid 55$ for the one I bought first) is specked at 8% It makes no real difference but I dropped an extra 45$ for a digital one that is not as accurate as the analogue one. Save you money buy cheap thermometers and a calibrate able humidity gauge and invest in a good t-stat.

Naomiii, I have to say that I took the suggestions from these great folks on here. I have a glass tank and my humidity level sucked real bad. Today I installed a UTH, got rid of the heat lamp and, am using just a regular light for day time. I covered three sides of the tank and did the screen top similar to THIS. The difference is I did the treatment to a piece of cardboard I cut to fit over the screen and did that to the cardboard and then placed the cardboard over the screen. I am so happy to report that the cool side, so far for the first day, stays at a steady 81 degrees - 51% humidity and warm side is 90 degrees - 60% humidity. The only heat source is coming from the UTH. I also have two of the ACURITE digital readers and I bought ONE OF THESE to control the temp of the UTH.

Quick update :)

Thankyou all for your suggestions, I have taken them all on board. I gave the viv a total clean, disinfected it throughout, bought some repti bark, and new digi thermometer and hydrometer. I have replaced the heat lamp with a normal simple low light. And placed it outside the viv in the centre. I have covered the top warm side of the viv with a purpose cut board of wood that fits snuggly. The humidity is now 80%, he is not having a very good shed at all, lots of small scales and still bit stuck on. The temp is 71.f

I must say I was petrified of picking him up, and did so quickly and placed him in a rub whilst I cleaned the viv out. When it was time for him to go back in, I just let him slither in on his accord, as when I opened the rub he looked a bit defensive. Which brings me to another question.. When is the beat time to pick him up? When he is in a ball? Or when he's out and exploring? His body language, tight s shape neck.. Does that mean leave him alone? I was going to put him in the bath today to help him with his shed, but thought maybe tomorrow, I'm sure he could feel me shaking haha!

All in all I feel he is doing quite well, and seems quite happy exploring his viv.

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seems quite happy exploring his viv.

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SOME exploring is ok as long as he eventually settles down but if he's out pacing during the day thats stress and thats not good.
bp's are nocturnal so you really shouldnt be seeing too much of him during the day 'cept for when he's switching hides.
we here at bp.net say
"a hiding bp is a happy bp."

71 is too cold you need to get the temps up! 80ºF on the cool end 90ºF on the warm end and ideally 81-4 ambient air temps. 80% humidity is quite high, I'd might add more ventilation how much do you have now? The big issue is heat. You took away the heat source what did you replace it with? It needs to be warmer. All the people whom are so very concerned with humidity don't seem to understand the HEAT is critical humidity can be solved with a humid hide very easily but with too much heat or too little heat the snake cannot digest its food and will die. YOU NEED TO GET SOMETHING TO GET THE TEMPS UP!!!!

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Originally Posted by mommanessy247

SOME exploring is ok as long as he eventually settles down but if he's out pacing during the day thats stress and thats not good.
bp's are nocturnal so you really shouldnt be seeing too much of him during the day 'cept for when he's switching hides.
we here at bp.net say
"a hiding bp is a happy bp."

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oops..should have said at night :) he is sleeping during the day fine :) x

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

71 is too cold you need to get the temps up! 80ºF on the cool end 90ºF on the warm end and ideally 81-4 ambient air temps. 80% humidity is quite high, I'd might add more ventilation how much do you have now? The big issue is heat. You took away the heat source what did you replace it with? It needs to be warmer. All the people whom are so very concerned with humidity don't seem to understand the HEAT is critical humidity can be solved with a humid hide very easily but with too much heat or too little heat the snake cannot digest its food and will die. YOU NEED TO GET SOMETHING TO GET THE TEMPS UP!!!!

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Thanks for your reply, the humidity is high as I thought it would help with his shedding, its new repti bark, so I assumed that would add more humidity initialy? the only heat source I have is a UTH using a habit stat. the ventilation is about the half width of the viv via metal mesh.

As I type the thermometer is reading 76.f so I guess thats pretty low its placed in the center of the viv, I said in a previous post I would be buying a new habi stat, as this one looks ancient, will do that and let you know how the temps work out. Thanks x

Everything seems fine *but that temp* add the heat lamp back in if you have to, heat over humidity! Check the temp inside the hot side hide and cool end hide. There are important, it should be at or near the substrate then check about 3-4 inches off the substrate in the centre of the enclosure ideally it will be close to 81 give or take.

You should have:
hot hide interior substrate = 90 or so not over 92 unless you are sure of perfect accuracy in your instruments (check the specs)

Cool hide interior substrate 78-81

Ambient temps 80-85 They are the hardest to control, insulation often does wonders.

The 80 for a shed is fine you can allow it to drop after the shed is finished. If you end up needing the lamp again to get the temps right just make a humid hide or toss some damp moss in the existing hides.