Super Pastel Identity question, can someone please clarify?

I have done my research and fully understand how to get a Super Pastel. I understand the co-dom gene and I understand a Pastel is het Super Pastel. However.....I have been doing some digging and trying to find out how one can tell if a Pastel is a Super or just a regular Pastel.

I found a thread, that had a link to another thread that gave GREAT information regarding Pastel vs. Super Pastel...and some people even were nice enough to post photos of each.

But I think I was mistaken...on everything I have read, the way you tell in a clutch with hatchlings is the Super Pastels will be super bright. However.....all the sub-adult and adult photos people posted in the thread it looked as though the Super Pastels were much lighter, with almost white blushing. Not nearly has bright and yellow as the normal Pastel photos that were posted.:confused:


The reason I am asking is because I have a male Pastel who is about 600grams that is 'possibly super' (both parents were pastel). I haven't figured out how to post photos on here yet, but if I can figure it out I will post a pic! My questions are #1....can you tell by looking, and if so what do you look for (ie: are super pastels lighter, or brighter, etc)? and #2 the only for sure way to confirm is to breed to a normal...and if all the babies are pastel, the male was a super pastel?


Thank you for the clarification! :)

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Originally Posted by tikigator

I found a thread, that had a link to another thread that gave GREAT information regarding Pastel vs. Super Pastel...and some people even were nice enough to post photos of each.

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Here is the link to the thread I found:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t=super+pastel


and then here's the link to the thread within that thread:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-super-pastels

(just a great read if anyone else out there is looking for some good Pastel vs. Super Pastel info! ;))

www.photobucket.com

super pastels have more blushing and more yellow than a pastel of the same size, a high quality pastel or a low quality super might be mistaken for one or the other but it seems to be pretty rare. Pics help more than words though

Ok here's my first attempt at posting pics! Here's "Tango".....
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...-28-10_242.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file.../imagine21.jpg

The most obvious way to tell a super is from the head. It is extremely light almost like you spilled bleach on it. The overall color and blushing is also very bright/light.

Looking at the head of your pastel I would say it is not a super but is a nice pastel that should produce some pretty supers.

pastel

I agree it's a nice pastel

Def a nice Pastel.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

www.photobucket.com

super pastels have more blushing and more yellow than a pastel of the same size, a high quality pastel or a low quality super might be mistaken for one or the other but it seems to be pretty rare. Pics help more than words though

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I have a high quality pastel but i still know hes just a pastel :)
some pastels are just prettier than others and most brown out but every once in a while you get lucky with finding babies that dont brown out as they grow yours is a very nice pastel

Count yourself lucky. Its better to have a awesome looking pastel than sub-par super pastel. Awesome creates awesome where sub-par creates sub-par, you get my drift.

Def one of the nicer pastels I have seen, however not a super. Def agree the best way to tell is the head. If the head of your animal was really blushed out I would say it was a sub par super.. however If I were you I'd be even more excited that you actually have a pastel that could be mistaken for a super! That animal is a beauty for sure!! Congrats on such a stunning pastel :)

You have a nice pastel there. I adore super pastels, a good one is quite stunning. In my opinion the best ones are indeed very pale as babies with a mega amount of blushing, these ones colour up more as they grow without darkening in the same way as some of the brighter when young ones. Just my opinion, for what it's worth, but that is what I look for in a super.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tikigator

But I think I was mistaken...on everything I have read, the way you tell in a clutch with hatchlings is the Super Pastels will be super bright. However.....all the sub-adult and adult photos people posted in the thread it looked as though the Super Pastels were much lighter, with almost white blushing. Not nearly has bright and yellow as the normal Pastel photos that were posted.:confused:

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One of the nicer qualities about a good super (homozygous) pastel is that she should get lighter as she ages, as opposed to a "regular" (heterozygous) pastel which tends to darken.

Here's a picture of Raver, one of my favorite snakes, as a young'n:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...rPastel2-1.jpg

Here she is at ~800 grams:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...na/Raver-2.jpg

Here is a regular pastel at ~900 grams -- she also has some decent blushing, but you can see she doesn't hold a candle to the super. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of her as a baby, but I'd hazard to guess that she was a pretty bright one. Lately though she's been darkening quite a bit, as pastels tend to do:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...08PastelF3.jpg


I can tell you that my first-ever clutch of ball pythons contained both regular pastels and a super, and there was no question at all which one the super was. I don't think it's as screamingly obvious in a photograph, but it was pretty screamingly obvious in real life:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...owerbabies.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...werbabies2.jpg

I've posted a comparison photo of pastel versus super pastel below (both originate from NERD lemon-line). As you can see, the dark pattern on the super pastel is much lighter, and there is a lot more blushing even on a super with a busy pattern. Additionally, the head is much lighter on the super (even though it's partially hidden in this photo).

http://www.russreptiles.com/images/g...ppast02-05.jpg

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Originally Posted by bassistjon112

Count yourself lucky. Its better to have a awesome looking pastel than sub-par super pastel. Awesome creates awesome where sub-par creates sub-par, you get my drift.

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I do...and thank you guys! It's one thing to understand genetics on paper....it's another thing to be able to tell by looking. But I greatly appreciate the clarification and the useful photos! I see what you mean about the head being blushed out. Hopefully next spring I will be posting pictures of my clutch so you all can tell me which ones look to be Super Pastels ;)

Tango is a gorgeous boy....but he's the meanest BP I own. LOL I have tried my best to handle him often for short periods of time now for a couple weeks but he has a nasty streak in him. He's about to go into a shed now so I am hoping that's why he's fussy. (and here I am, once again making excuses for him..:rolleyes:) But then again....as with other animals, sometimes the mean crazy "studs" make the nicest babies. So we shall see!

Thank you so very much for all of your input! :)

Your pastel is exactly what I look for in that morph. He would make stunning suppers if you could find a female thats his equal. Good luck with him:)