Maybe I need to foster these babies? HELP!

My two double rex sisters in the same cage just both gave birth overnight with about 20+ babies combined.
Problem is I cant see any milk in the babies bellys yet. The mothers are sitting over the babies and seem to be caring for them. These are young females that I didnt really want to get pregnant but it happened. Maybe because they are young they arent producing much milk?
Anyways I have two other sisters in a seperate cage that are caring for eachothers babies as well. These babies are at their hopper stage and are just starting to wean. The mothers in this group still nurse the group a few times a day.
How could I go about fostering the newborns to these mothers? I dont want the newborns to die because of not getting milk.

Many times double rex rats do not lactate properly. It takes A LOT of selective breeding to get double rex rats that do lactate properly. I would foster all of the babies immediately.

Ok but how do I go about that?
Do I just put all the newborns in with the other mothers and their hopper babies? Or am i risking them being eaten by the moms because they dont smell right...etc.
I need to know how to properly introduce the newborns in the other tank.

Most of my mothers will readily accept any baby, but then again I cull any females from my colony that eat babies.

I've had something similar happen before. I had two females with babies that were 10-14 days and one female that had 17 new born babies and wasn't able to care for them. I placed a few babies of the new born litter in with the female I wanted to foster them. Leaving her babies in there at first. Then over the next couple of hours, I removed a few of her babies and added a few of the foster babies. Her larger kits (pups) were put in with the other female with the older/larger kits. Mixing newborns with much older babies will lead to asphyxiation and starvation of the younger ones.

Well looking at the babies now I can see a little bit of milk in them. Not A LOT but I do see some.
Ill give them a few hours and if theres not more milk in all the babies then ill split them up.

Since we are on the subject and it seems there are some experienced breeders commenting here, I had a question.

I have been breeding now for about 2 months or so. I have 3 trios that are producing very rapidly so I am very happy. However due to feeding off pinks, pups, and hoppers in the past, this is the first time that I will have the opportunity to have weaners and put them in a grow out tub.

My question is, what's the best way to determine a safe stage to seperate the weaner's? How do you know when they are eating blocks and not nursing anymore? I'd love to just sit and watch the hoppers/weaners for an extended period of time to see what they are eating or still nursing but being so busy it'd be much easier to just have a couple of easy indicators.

i'd appreciate any advice/comments! Thanks guys!

Oh, and I meant in no way to hijack the OPs thread, I just thought this would be easier then starting a new thread. And it seemed most of the questions above were pretty much already answered. If the OP wants me to bounce, just let me know and I will happily take my questions elsewhere :) Thanks again guys/gals!

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Originally Posted by cdavidson9

Since we are on the subject and it seems there are some experienced breeders commenting here, I had a question.

I have been breeding now for about 2 months or so. I have 3 trios that are producing very rapidly so I am very happy. However due to feeding off pinks, pups, and hoppers in the past, this is the first time that I will have the opportunity to have weaners and put them in a grow out tub.

My question is, what's the best way to determine a safe stage to seperate the weaner's? How do you know when they are eating blocks and not nursing anymore? I'd love to just sit and watch the hoppers/weaners for an extended period of time to see what they are eating or still nursing but being so busy it'd be much easier to just have a couple of easy indicators.

i'd appreciate any advice/comments! Thanks guys!

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i normaly watch them and see if there eating but the best way to know when to take them out is when you see them drinking from the water bottle or what ever it is your useing.mainly if there drinking water then you can seperate them from mom.i breed asf rats and mice and i been doing that for a long time now with no problem. if you have runts or any that are realy small leave them in with mom for a extra week or 2 so they can faten up alittle.hope that helps

Most are ready to wean at 21 days. All are ready to wean at 28 days. Just put them in their own tub by sex and they will figure the rest out.

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

Most are ready to wean at 21 days. All are ready to wean at 28 days. Just put them in their own tub by sex and they will figure the rest out.

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Once weaned they cannot be mixed by sex? they have to be in their own grow out tubs according to sex? Is that because the males can impregnate the females but since they are so young it can kill them or something? HELP! As of now the male and female weaners are all in the same tub.. It sound like I need to make another tub set up then...

Once again, thank for all the advice guys. Being new to breeding rats I need all the help i can get.

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Originally Posted by cdavidson9

Once weaned they cannot be mixed by sex? they have to be in their own grow out tubs according to sex? Is that because the males can impregnate the females but since they are so young it can kill them or something? HELP! As of now the male and female weaners are all in the same tub.. It sound like I need to make another tub set up then...

Once again, thank for all the advice guys. Being new to breeding rats I need all the help i can get.

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Your probably ok to mix sexes in tubs until the testicles drop in the males which is probably give or take 2 months...It is POSSIBLE for does to be bred well under 4 months old. Which is horribly dangerous for a doe. Just because they CAN breed doesnt mean they SHOULD.
I wouldnt breed a doe until AT LEAST 6 months old. They need time for their pelic bones to fuse and support burthing kittens.
If your rats are weaned and can be properly sexed I would seperate them. They will get plenty of comfort with their same sex siblings. But thats just my opinion! :)

Well an update on the babies, I still have the double rex moms caring for the babies that they are doing fine! I havnt found a dead baby yet and its been a few days now. Seems like they are ok moms, im happy i didnt have to foster them. :)

That is great! It is best not to foster in the first 3 days if you can help it unless the foster mom also just gave birth. The first 3 days the mothers milk is Colostrum which is full of antibodies and if the newborns don't receive it by the foster mother then they are less likely to survive.

That being said I had a bad situation where a litter of 11 mother died when they were about 5 days old and I had to bottle feed them and foster them to a mother with a litter of 11. It was a lot of work. I had to check their weight and rotate them so that the smaller litter was getting enough milk without the older rats (older by 1 1/2 days) didn't always win the nipple.

To make it worse the second mother also died. AFter feeding off 2 of the weekest babies, I was down to 20 and had to foster them to a mother of 8. I also gave the whole litter formula with cooked oatmeal so that the older one were not as hungry, and the mother loved it too. So now I had one mother with 28 babies. I was so glad when they finally hit 21 days and I could ween them. I still gave them Formula mixed with oatmeal for about a week just to make sure they were fine. In the end it all worked out fine. Good luck!

Oh and Cdavidson I would separate them, their balls drop pretty early, and they can actually even get the mother pregnant again if they are left with her too long. You could probably leave the girls with mom though if you don't have enough separate tanks.

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Originally Posted by MoshBalls

That is great! It is best not to foster in the first 3 days if you can help it unless the foster mom also just gave birth. The first 3 days the mothers milk is Colostrum which is full of antibodies and if the newborns don't receive it by the foster mother then they are less likely to survive.

That being said I had a bad situation where a litter of 11 mother died when they were about 5 days old and I had to bottle feed them and foster them to a mother with a litter of 11. It was a lot of work. I had to check their weight and rotate them so that the smaller litter was getting enough milk without the older rats (older by 1 1/2 days) didn't always win the nipple.

To make it worse the second mother also died. AFter feeding off 2 of the weekest babies, I was down to 20 and had to foster them to a mother of 8. I also gave the whole litter formula with cooked oatmeal so that the older one were not as hungry, and the mother loved it too. So now I had one mother with 28 babies. I was so glad when they finally hit 21 days and I could ween them. I still gave them Formula mixed with oatmeal for about a week just to make sure they were fine. In the end it all worked out fine. Good luck!

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Just curious - what was the outcome of this monumental effort of fostering and bottle feeding? Are all of the rats now pets?

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Originally Posted by mues155

Your probably ok to mix sexes in tubs until the testicles drop in the males which is probably give or take 2 months...It is POSSIBLE for does to be bred well under 4 months old. Which is horribly dangerous for a doe. Just because they CAN breed doesnt mean they SHOULD.
I wouldnt breed a doe until AT LEAST 6 months old. They need time for their pelic bones to fuse and support burthing kittens.
If your rats are weaned and can be properly sexed I would seperate them. They will get plenty of comfort with their same sex siblings. But thats just my opinion! :)

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I'm pretty sure pelvic fusion in rats is a myth, and originally was used as a reason to breed rats young, not old. I've bred tons of rats under 4 months, several as young as 6 weeks. The only really bad effect I've noticed is they are often terrible mothers.