How many strikes ...

... Before she's out?

What criteria do folks use to decide when to cull a female from breeding due to low fertility?

I have a nice female normal that I've tried breeding two years in a row now -- multiple confirmed locks to a proven fertile male -- and she hasn't laid either year.

Now, if she were, say, a coral glow, I would probably give her every season until forever to get her act together because her color gene would be valuable enough to overlook the poor breeding record. This is a normal, though, and I have extremely strict standards for normals (must eat F/T like a retic, must have an exceptional pattern and color, and must be highly fertile!)

I'm thinking no more than two strikes for a normal, maybe three for a more common morph like a pastel or spider, and as many as she needs for something more genetically valuable ... What are others' cull criteria for poor-breeder females?

Wait...you're going to kill her because she doesn't lay? IMO, that's absolutely not an option. Give her to someone as a pet, don't kill her because she hasn't breed for two years.

Other than that, there are plenty of people that have waited 2-3 years for a female to finally lay. It just depends on how long you are willing to wait. I can understand not wanting to keep a female around that hasn't bred, but not culling her. Perhaps you mean you are going to give/sell her to someone else? When I think of culling a BP, to me that means they are going in the freezer.

I personally would try again..... It can take time for a female to really be ready.....

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Wait...you're going to kill her because she doesn't lay. IMO, that's absolutely not an option. Give her to someone as a pet, don't kill her because she hasn't breed for two years.

Other than that, there are plenty of people that have waited 2-3 years for a female to finally lay. It just depends on how long you are willing to wait. I can understand not wanting to keep a female around that hasn't bred, but not culling her.

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LOL, I doubt Serpent is meaning to kill, yes cull generally means that but I think they mean to remove from the breeding program, not literally kill the snake :O

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

LOL, I doubt Serpent is meaning to kill, yes cull generally means that but I think they mean to remove from the breeding program, not literally kill the snake :O

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I was thinking after I wrote that message that he can't mean cull like I'm thinking... Thinning the herd, but not with guns, or freezers in this case. Ok :gj: :P

How old is she? It's not that uncommon for some girls to need 4 or 5 years before they'll lay their first clutch.

Hi,

Was it the same male both seasons?

If not I would double check by outting her with a different male - it may just be that specific pairing that has problems not either parent?


dr del

You could also be missing her developmental period. I know of someone who tried to breed a female multiple times with no luck. Once he started ultrasounding he realized she started developing way earlier than his breeding season started and absorbed the follicles before she was able to be bred. Once he realized her developmental time was so much earlier he started pairing her and gets viable clutches from her every year. I know it would be more trouble to go out and buy an ultrasound to figure out a normal but its definitely a possibility that you're just missing her time instead of her fitting into your time.

Luke makes a great point. BPs tend to go when they're ready, not just when we tell them to.

And to others, if you look up the definition of cull, it's not just killing an animal. It is also meant as removing animals from breeding.

If it were me, though, with a normal not producing for me 2 years in a row, I'd send her packing, as I have limited space. I'd rather a morph take her place in my small rack. But that's just me...

What if the problem wasn't the fact that she was't laying eggs. What if she slugs out. How many pairings would you put up with?

I agree with Luke, I have 4 girls who lay June - Sept. so just when one season ends another begins for me. I've tried pleading with them to get on the same schedule as the rest but they aren't having it :P

You can always give her to your nephew or someone you will like to bring to the hobby. ;)

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Originally Posted by ace_singapore

You can always give her to your nephew or someone you will like to bring to the hobby. ;)

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Yes, this is definitely more what I was thinking when I said "cull" -- NOT slaughter! :O I guess that is generally what that word implies (ie in livestock, which is what I am planning on going into vet med-wise), but as others have pointed out, the strict definition is to remove from your breeding program -- which is what I meant :) ... Not planning on "beefing" her ...

Unfortunately I don't have any nephews, and this gal is a bit on the feisty side as far as "pet potential" goes, but if I were to remove her from breeding I would likely sell her as a "pet/poor breeder." (Or just give her to my buddy, who has more patience than I do ...)

I don't know how old this girl is specifically; she came from a group that I thought was supposed to consist solely of proven females. :confused:

So it sounds like most (other than ClarkT) would actually give her another shot, maybe even try pairing her at odd times, even though she's a normal? And Dr. Del does raise a good point -- it was the same (proven) male both seasons ...

I do like Luke's line of thinking, though: I need a danged ultrasound! :rofl:

An ultrasound would definitely be useful in a situation like this. How much are those things anyway?

I'd give her another shot. Try a different male, different part of the year, etc.

I just wanna say good luck with whatever decision you make. If you decide to keep her i hope she drops at least 10 eggs to make up for lost time. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

I do like Luke's line of thinking, though: I need a danged ultrasound! :rofl:

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You and me both! I've actually been working on picking one up this summer myself. I've got a few females that haven't produced for me in a few years that I need to pay more attention to in that area.

If I had a female lay slugs for a second year in a row, that's all I'd try her, unless she was one of my favorite morphs; and she was paired with a different male the 2nd time than the 1st.