Now petco does it too!

For a long time petsmart has required you to sign a contract stating it is being purchased as a pet if you buy a rodent. This is to prevent you from going back multiple times for feeders.

Well my ASF colony is depleted and a couple of my new babies are being stubborn and do not want rat pups. I went on the hunt for a few mice to produce some of those too for back up.

Went into petco and asked for a couple females and a male. Not even a year ago they would sell rodents as feeders but now they also make you sign a contract saying it's a pet/companion animal.

What really gets me is that they are not fancy mice. They are the small white lab mice. What if a person has new hatchlings or picky snakes that won't eat rats or frozen thawed rodents? If it were not for privately owned reptile shops or pet shops, I worry that some pet snakes wouldn't eat.

That sucks. :(

The pet store I used to buy live mice from doesn't sell them as pets, they are called feeder mice, and that was your typical pet store. Though they do sell kittens occasionally so maybe they are a little behind the times.

As a employee I can tell you that this has always been Petco policy. Corporate recently went through and cracked down on this policy, it sucks but there is nothing we can do about it.

ive never understood this policy at all, in the same store they sell frozen mice and rats as well would they not all end up in the same place?

I agree. Plus their frozen rodents cost about the same as live and the quality usually isn't that great.

lol....corporate cares so much about the pets that the mice are contracted to be pets and not feeders....but won't spend any extra money to educate their employees, update their care sheets, and correct their husbandry. Interesting...

kb1290...just pointing out nothing against the employees, but the corporate end of those chains are rediculous. As we've talked about this before, not all employees are like you BUT that's because most aren't educated on specific animal care requirements.

It's all about image. Have you noticed how many pet adoption days they have? They make more money on food and supplies than they ever would on animals. People adopting kittens and puppies may not appreciate that cute little mouses are being sold as snake food.

Plus, I would imagine that hsus and peta donate significantly to their advertising campaigns to help get those future pet owners in the stores. Can't bite the hand that feeds you if you're corporate.

Our Petco in Fairbanks, Alaska does not do this. They know what it's for and they frown upon it but they don't fight it. They just strongly encourage f/t.

I can understand why people selling their own pets and breeders who breed rodents specifically to be sold as pets would be concerned about their animals being fed to reptiles. Though, I'm actually surprised franchise companies even care. They're typically more concerned about money than what happens to their animals. I would understand if an employee were to become attached to one of the animals, it would be upsetting to know that it was being used to produce feeders. But, at a corporate level, what reason do they have to dictate what we buyers use the rodents for? Does it make it animal abuse simply because they were not labeled "feeders"? :rolleyes:
The corporate levels of PetCo and PetSmart need to enforce better feeding and care of their reptiles before they enforce buyer's policies on rodents. It's them who create the rules of how much the employees are permitted to feed the animals.

The petsmart by me only sells pets but we have a PJ's pet store that sells feeders as well as pets funny thing feeders (rats or mice) are about $3 or up to $6 for large mice/med Rats and the pet Rats are $15!! Im pretty sure they are bred the same maybe the pet ones are handled more but its a huge mark up for pet status :D I only looked into it for a back-up I buy frozen from a reptile store

I managed at a petco for a few years. Back then, they were even labeled FEEDER MICE. AND we had a separate cage for "fancy mice".

I remember going to a petsmart once for feeders.. and they told me how horrible I was for feeding live to a snake.. (I had a non eater)..

so I asked for frozen... they said they did not carry them..

So I nicely told them how horrible it was for them to not care about hungry snakes. LOL

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

ive never understood this policy at all, in the same store they sell frozen mice and rats as well would they not all end up in the same place?

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It's corporates belief that it is upsetting to the customer to know that the mice/rats will be food. The f/t are kept in a cooler labeled "Reptile Food" that way only "reptile" people will see/ know of the f/t food. All other customers go along oblivious to this and see that we sell "fancy pets".

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Originally Posted by LGray23

lol....corporate cares so much about the pets that the mice are contracted to be pets and not feeders....but won't spend any extra money to educate their employees, update their care sheets, and correct their husbandry. Interesting...

kb1290...just pointing out nothing against the employees, but the corporate end of those chains are rediculous. As we've talked about this before, not all employees are like you BUT that's because most aren't educated on specific animal care requirements.

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It is true that employees are given limited training on animal care, but I think it comes down to each individual employee to do the work. If your going to sell an animal to people I think it is your responsibility to do the research and make sure you know proper care and husbandry. Otherwise you shouldn't be talking to customers and selling animals. Like I know nothing about birds so, I don't sell birds! In a corporate business like this it can't be blamed on the top officials when the employees as the base aren't doing the work to stabilize the pyramid.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

It's all about image. Have you noticed how many pet adoption days they have? They make more money on food and supplies than they ever would on animals. People adopting kittens and puppies may not appreciate that cute little mouses are being sold as snake food.

Plus, I would imagine that hsus and peta donate significantly to their advertising campaigns to help get those future pet owners in the stores. Can't bite the hand that feeds you if you're corporate.

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Bingo! Petco's policy is to feed f/t to all snakes in the store. If we get in a "picky eater" I have to go buy rats/mice from another local pet store so that I can feed live. I cannot just take a mouse off the floor. They are "pets" only and not food. Do they become food, yes all the time, but Petco doesn't want to know that.

Petco doesn't give a rats patooty about rats or mice...look at where they buy them from. They care about corporate image and being a victim of a PETA smear campaign. I hate its this way - but I guess it is what it is.

Thank goodness I have a "real" local pet store that has FEEDERS, PINKIES ETC if I'm running short. They will even buy my extra rats.

I love the 99% of the folks that work at my local Petco...just don't care for corp policies...

I find it funny that my local reptile shop usually has prettier feeders than pet co's pet mice. I mean, I felt bad for feeding my bp some of the mice from that shop, they had some pretty tan ones and orange ones... they had a lot of different colors and patterns. Pet co mice are just... white, usually.
Also, doesn't pet co normally sell feeder goldfish, crickets, etc? Just because it's fuzzy it deserves better? What?

i ran into that problem when looking around for a feeder rat supplier. i called petsmart and petco to get their prices and when a guy answered at petsmart i said "hi i was calling to find out what your prices are for live feeder rats?"
and i got this snappy response...
"[tone of shock and disgust] we dont sell our rats as feeders." and then the guy proceeded to lecture me on his moral beliefs on
"...feeding animals to other animals."
yes he actually said that bit.
i was polite and quietly listened to him ramble on for a while but when he said those words my patience with him had run out and i was not appreciating his condescending tone.
i asked him if he was a vegetarian and when he said
"psh! no. what's that got to do with anything?"
i said "cuz if you dont believe in animals being fed to other animals then how the hell can you sleep at night knowing some poor little cows, chickens and pigs got chopped up to fill your freezer?!"
he had the balls to gasp then i hung up on him before he could pick his jaw up off the floor and argue with me.
i got the "we dont sell our rats as feeders." response at petco too but that person hung up pretty darn quick after saying that.
whatever.
i found a hole in the wall pet store that sells feeder rats and mice and for a little bit there the guys were good about understanding my need to buy the smallest of their smalls when i provided the explanation that my bp wont eat anything bigger even though i know she can. now though, i'm feeling a little bit of impatience from them. i dunno, maybe i'm imagining it but i swear i think they're getting tired of showing me different sizes. it's not my fault though, i have to go with what my snake will eat, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by kb1290

It's corporates belief that it is upsetting to the customer to know that the mice/rats will be food. The f/t are kept in a cooler labeled "Reptile Food" that way only "reptile" people will see/ know of the f/t food. All other customers go along oblivious to this and see that we sell "fancy pets".

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If they just labeled them "mice" or "rats" then it wouldnt matter. the avg person that would go to petsmart or petco to buy feeders is only going to buy one or two same as the avg person going to buy pet mice. if you were buying a couple "mice" and a customer that corporate is trying to not upset were to walk by they would only see you buying "mice" they wouldnt know what you were going to do with it when you got home and the odds of them asking are slim anyway.

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

If they just labeled them "mice" or "rats" then it wouldnt matter. the avg person that would go to petsmart or petco to buy feeders is only going to buy one or two same as the avg person going to buy pet mice. if you were buying a couple "mice" and a customer that corporate is trying to not upset were to walk by they would only see you buying "mice" they wouldnt know what you were going to do with it when you got home and the odds of them asking are slim anyway.

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I agree completely with you and have actually pointed this out to higher ranking managers and was given a look of shock and disbelief and then they changed the subject without so much as even trying rebuttle my point. I sell any mouse/rat to any customer that wants to come in and buy them. If they say the word "feeder". I inform them of the policy and have them just ask for mice/rats from then on.

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Originally Posted by kb1290

I agree completely with you and have actually pointed this out to higher ranking managers and was given a look of shock and disbelief and then they changed the subject without so much as even trying rebuttle my point. I sell any mouse/rat to any customer that wants to come in and buy them. If they say the word "feeder". I inform them of the policy and have them just ask for mice/rats from then on.

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Which is all well and good for the snake and customer but not so good for you.

Businesses run for profit. Don't you think if there was more profit in selling feeders than the negative press it could bring that they would still be selling feeders.

You guys are making it too personal. It's not about any one person or store, it's a nationwide image.

If someone can't follow policy, no matter how good the reasons, well, this isn't about that now, is it? Or is it? No, not really though the two are rather tightly intertwined.

Why must they change their policy to suit any of us, or anyone else for that matter? Do you go into stores that only sell fish or only birds and complain at them about not selling the feeders you need? They could. Easily. But there's either not enough profit in it, they don't want do sell feeders or they don't want to deal with the buttdarts like peta and hsus and the puckered targets, er members, that make them up.

I'm pretty sure that no one posting in this thread has ever owned a store and had to make these decisions from an owners point of view. Without the impetus of making money, paying the rent and power and all the other bills that go with staying open, profitable, you guys are missing some really important motivation, information, and real life dos and don'ts.

The negative press is much more, but only because of the massive amounts of animal rights people like pita and HSUS. Which are both entirely overplayed. They both lie and misuse funds right in front of the oblivious public. Those people are mostly against pet ownership completely. The reality of the rodent trade however, is clearly geared towards feeders for reptiles much much more than for pets. Reptile stores and mom n pop pet shops can't keep enough in stock for feeders in many places. While rodents in chain stores which are only for pets, sit there and get old or sick because they are rarely purchased. They are also not socialized.

The rats that we reptile enthusiasts are often treated better, with pet quality fancy colors. Many of us also choose to socialize favorites for pets. It bothers me that these other organizations have so much undue power over the public, that they refuse to see how we care more for our feeders than many people do for "pet" rodents. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

I just called my local petco and asked "do you have feeder mice" and they said yes.

Maybe it is just a regional thing instead of corporate policy? Either way I don't like it.

kc261 -
you asked a loaded question when asking if they have feeder mice. of course they can say yes, you did not specify if it was live or frozen. i'm willing to bet my last 10 cents that the mice they have are frozen ;).

I just want to chime in and say that technically, all domesticated house mice are 'fancy mice'. ;)


To be a fancy mouse doesn't mean you have to be pretty. Just that you are tame. Fancy doesn't mean like top hat and cane, it's meant like in 'cat fancy'.
A lab mouse, a pet store mouse, and a show mouse, are all fancy mice, and are all of the species 'house mouse' or 'Mus Musculus'.

That's your rodent lesson of th day kids. :D

Hmm that's new for me because i dont had problem buying small live rats for my balls in petco up to this point.. (unfortunately there is no local pet/feeder store in my neighborhood)... and i specifically going there next day after delivery to pick the best ones and girl from small animal department know where they go...

She never give me any attitude about it... I wast there few weeks because petland next to my work have actually proper size rodent lately so I'm buying from them. Need to check that out...

Well, you want to hear a kicker?
I hate petco/petsmart, I don't mind saying it, always have and always will.
When I would get in a bind, and absolutely have to buy rodents from either one, which wasn't often, since I usually bred or bought from a breeder, they would only sell me a few at a time, and I was actually blacklisted from the store close to me for buying too many. Funny that they would sell me a reptile if I wanted, but not the fOod tO feed it! I did make he mistake of buying a baby ball python from them about 6 years ago, she diEd just about a month ago, still surprised she made it that long!
Back to the kicker....
Now, I own a Pet store, and have since re-started breeding rodents again on a large commercial scale. The kicker- do you know who one of my biggest buyers is? Come on guess?
Do you know what they buy the most of? Feeder mice, not fancy mice, feeder mice. Of course, all my mice are fancy, but it just kills me that they buy feeder mIce from me, but only sell "fancy" pet mice.
Hypocritical sell outs.

To the person that said, they are a business.
Yes, they are a business, and as a business, they should serve their customers, not worry about this or that organization, and what that Organization may think about them.
It's completely hypocritical and ludicrous to sell reptile and not sell the food for the animal.
Yes, they sell frozen, but how many people can get every single baby ball python to eat froxen right off the bat? Not to mention, where they get their baby balls from in the first place. Captive born does not mean "from a breeder".

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Originally Posted by jasbus

To the person that said, they are a business.
Yes, they are a business, and as a business, they should serve their customers, not worry about this or that organization, and what that Organization may think about them.
It's completely hypocritical and ludicrous to sell reptile and not sell the food for the animal.
Yes, they sell frozen, but how many people can get every single baby ball python to eat froxen right off the bat? Not to mention, where they get their baby balls from in the first place. Captive born does not mean "from a breeder".

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You're a private individual mom and pop store. You care about your customers and you most likely specialize in reptiles.

They're corporate. Numbers not customers are what count. Profit for the share holders which breaks down to keeping vendors and advertisers happy is their goal.

Apples and oranges, similar yet different.

Exactly the reason why people should shop local. Stay away from chains, support your local mom and pops.

I completely agree. I breed my own rats and ASF. My problem is that my ASF colonies need to build back up and I have a couple hatchlings that are refusing to take rat pups. My local reptile store was also out of ASF and mice. I didn't have much choice in the matter. I bought a few mice as back up breeders. For people who do not have privately owned pet shops near them, and snakes that won't eat FT, this practice could be detrimental to the snakes. Luckily I do have enough options that I can work with but others may not.

Petco where I live sells them like hot cakes.
I was there one time when a local snake breeder bought 25 live mice.
I bought a couple live mice today for my hard headed picky feeder.