convict cichlid help i know nothing about fish

i adopted this fishy from my friend.she was tired of caring for it and started to let it go.not changing water.keeping up with the parameters.this fish went a long time without a filter and an air pump.the water was filthy when i went to get it.she said the water evaporated fast and she poured water in there everyday so im assuming thats how the fish got its oxygen.the fish came with his home.a 10gl with white gravel,couple of fake plants,a castle and a couple of other silly looking ornaments.as soon as i got the tank and fish i went out got some new gravel,some river rocks,a real plant(starts with an a i forgot name),another fake sword plant,a log with entries and fake plants on it,some water conditioner for chlorine and chloramines,some test strips,a hang on ph testcard and an ammonia alert card and some new food.he was eating goldfish flakes.got him some floating and sinking cichlid food he just spits those out but loves the leftover goldfish flakes and beefheart i got him.oh also an aquatech 10 to 15gl filter and air pump.
now for the problems.im guessing the tank is cycling cuz of the new filter,gravel and decor.my ph 7.8,alkalinity between 80 and 120,hardness 300,nitrate 40,now the problem two nitrite and ammonia.nitrite and ammonia keep rising ill do a partial water change about 15 to 30 percent on the weekend.sun,mon,tue are fine then midweek nitrite bam 3.0 overnight and ammonia is below noticeable,then bam ammonia 0.03.then keep rising if i dont add this kordon ammonia/nitrite/nitrate detoxifier plus. add 5ml of that stuff and the ammonia stabilizes but nitrites stay the same.go to work and bam ammonia again.
how do i deal with this?i know this specific fish should be in a 30gl plus tank but i cant afford to buy a 30gl,new filter more gravel,more river rocks,more decor and not to mention nowhere sturdy enough to handle the 300lb plus tank so i would need a stand.helpppppppppppppppp

While I appreciate you rescuing this fish from certain death, the tank size is a big issue (assuming it's a full-grown convict). Your ammonia and nitrates are probably off because a fish of that size is producing waste faster than the filter can handle. Imagine being confined to a 2x2 box and going to the bathroom in it. It would fill up a lot faster than a 10x10 box would.

Technically, the fish doesn't need gravel or decor, as long as it has enough hiding spots to feel safe. And as long as you don't have any cats or dogs that would go poking their heads in, you could keep the tank on the floor. So if you went in this direction, you would only have to buy the tank and filter (both of which can be found pretty cheap on ebay or at local garage sales). Obviously these conditions aren't optimal to look at, but the fish really wouldn't know the difference and it would be much happier than in a cramped 10 gal.

I wouldn't call myself a fish expert, but upping the tank size should help a lot. My dad really knows his fish so I'll ask him tomorrow.

i know the tank isnt big enough and i figured the bioload was too much for this filter.i joined a fish forum and they told me everything i had to do to help this guy survive til he gets a new home. i can afford a new tank and filter this weekend because thats a great idea about just setting it on the floor with just the stuff he has now.im sure the extra room would and easier manageable water conditions will make him that much happier til i could get the rest of the stuff.decor and stand and such.

my dogs listen while im around so they wont be a problem until i left soo i would have to put it in my room under my ball python enclosure table.would the constant vibration from the air pump and filter stress her?

oh and if your interested on what the fish forum said,i have to do constant 30% to 80% water changes and avoid ammonia nitrite detoxifiers unless necessary.my tap water is good for water changes minus the chlorine,chloramine and temperature.ph,alk,hardness.etc.because although high the parameters are what the convicts thrive in.i know by constant water changes it could hurt the cycling process but that doesnt really matter since he'll get a new bare yes not very pleasing to look yes at but piece by piece i can make it a masterpiece.
and your dads input would greatly be appreciated.

Unless you have a filter with 2 separate cartridges or a canister filter with one basket strictly for bio rocks, then the gravel is necessary in the tank.

Once it finishes cycling, the good bacteria load which keeps ammonia levels down, will be in the gravel bed.

The trick is to keep the water correct now until it cycles and builds up a good collection of bacteria in the gravel bed.

Do you have a small privately owned pet store near you that sells fish? If so, go in and ask for a large handful of tank gravel out of one of the tanks. In a bag with enough water to keep it damp and alive. Put this gravel in some cheese cloth or fine mesh bag and set it in the aquarium. This will greatly help to establish a new healthy bacteria colony. Thus shortening the dangerous cycle time. Then after a few weeks, shake the bag in the water and then remove it.

Voila. No ugly gravel that you don't want but a head start in keeping the tank healthy.

If you get a larger tank and filter, get a filter with 2 cartridges. Only change one at a time. Put at least a couple weeks to a month between changing alternate filter cartridges. This ensures you never completely remove too much good bacteria. Then just do partial water changes as needed.

i found a good deal at petco for an aqueon 29gl kit for $120.filter,hood light combo,water heater etc.sound like a good deal? or should i buy piece by piece? i know snake starter kits suck but what about fish aquarium kits?are their pumps crap like snake kit thermometers?
yeah i know about using another tanks established bacteria thanks for the suggestion though. my friend that works there said i could have some used gravel and a used filter cartridge to help jumpstart the cycling and colonies of bacteria.

hmm i should probably take some of these questions to the fish forum huh??
thanks reptile people.

I'd base wether or not it's a deal on the quality of the filter. Filtration is everything when it comes to aquariums. Its a fact that filters are rated way too high also. If it says it's rated for a 20-30 gal tank, then it's good enough for a 10gal. And so on. For a 29 gal, I'd strongly recommend a filter rated to 50/55 gal.

word?????so i shoooouuuuld buy seperately.id agree with you on that cause this 10-15gl filter doesnt suck up crap unless its right next to the filter.

would an aquarium under my snakes enclosure stress her with the vibrations?

I doubt it if you get a quiet filter. The Aquaclear brand is very quiet and gets great reviews. I had a small one for a hospital tank a few years ago and loved it. I use canisters now but that's the one id recommend for a hang on the back filter.

yeah ill check that one out..hmm i may have to get a new air pump too.the one i have is a constant blurmmmmmmm on my wall. wait canister or hang on filter???

Canisters are expensive but definitely do the trick. You just need to buy all the filter media separately. A mesh filter bag for carbon or amocarb (which cuts ammonia as well as keeping water clear). Then the fiber filters and bio rocks for the different baskets in the canister.

Slightly higher maintenance and filter media cost but less frequent water changes are needed and they certainly work great.

It just depends on your finances I guess.

well ill be buying everything seperately.this week ill pick up the filter and possibly a quieter air pump(and some stuff for my bp and scorps) and the next week a bills,and the third week tank,hood and gravel and the week after that decor.so itll fit in if its the my best interest to use one. so Doc will have to make due for three more weeks cramped.hell manage considering he survived his swamp of a tank with the past owner.well as long as i keep up with these excessive water changes.everyother day ill tell you.hmm maybe ill buy a cheap 30gl filter for his 10gl tank to help with the cleaning til i get his new one setup. it wouldnt be a waste cause i could just put the lil tank and accessories downstairs with something like a snail in it.hahaha

If you pick up a 5 gal jug of water and refil it at a grocery store that has the do-it-yourself water station, the filtered water would cause a little less stress on the fish with many water changes.

If you have city water though, that should be fine. Well water generally has much more chemicals and is very hard.

Plus if you just leave a jug of water sit with the cap off overnight, all chlorine will dissipate and you won't need to treat it. Unless you're adding a bit of slime coat stress treatment for the fish.

the problem is since its cycling you dont have beneficial bacteria in the tank yet it takes about a month, if you want it to cycle faster put a moss ball in there, also when it cycles think of an s chart, your nitrite and ammonia are going to spike twice during the cycle after that it will level out, thats why its better to cycle a tank with out fish your basically gonna have to ride it out, im not an expert but my g/f has fish and i learnt alot from it

actually i forgot theres if you go to a petstore one that specializes in fish they have instant cycle its not called that but if you ask about it im sure they will know what ur talking about its about 10 dollars

also doing a water change even small ones while its cycling is removing what ever good bacteria you have in tank, and basically starting the process all over again

Those bottles are pretty much pointless though. If you think about it, there isn't anything in there to feed the bacteria after it's been sitting on a shelf so it's very low potency.

The moss ball is a good idea though. Also a couple chunks of any veggie that won't fall apart as it rots. Like squash, zucchini, potato or broccoli would work.

The cichlid will also nibble on these things as a treat.

A piece of drift wood will also help keep the water stable once it's cycled. Then if you ever add a pleco, you already have some wood for it to rasp on.

Good point, but the frequent water changes should be taken from the top. Scooped with a pitcher. If the gravel is not disturbed, a beneficial colony will survive and grow. Don't start stirring the gravel and vacuuming during water changes for at least 6 weeks. Even then, only do the top of the gravel. Don't change filter media for a couple weeks after water changes (after it's cycled).

If you get a filter system which takes some sort of bio rocks, never rinse these in clean water. Always gently rinse them in tank water and replace in the filter immediately. These provide a place for good bacteria to live. They are especially important if you are the type of person who wants crystal clear water and spotlessly clean gravel every time you clean.

ive been talking to a fish expert on another forum and he says that this benifical bacteria wouldnt be able to even start growing if the ammonia and nitrites are too high and those already living bacteria you get from stores are basicly dead by the time you get em.
my tap water here is in the range that the convict would thrive in.i just have to let it get to room temperature and treat it for chlorine and chloramine.i usually treat it and let it sit for 24hrs before using.

Exactly. Which is why you need to keep removing water and replacing it. Using other means of adding bacteria like dirty fish gravel, filters, and veggie/moss chunks. At petsmart they sell large cartons of the ammocarb I mentioned above. It's loose so you need to use a small mesh filter bag. Rinse it well to get the black dust out before putting it in the aquarium. Change it weekly. It has white pebbles mixed in with the carbon. These white ones help neutralize the ammonia.

i think it would help if i got this10gl tank a new filter though.do you guys think so?
it wouldnt be a waste just for the last month of his dwelling in that 10gl and for the future fish that would go in it.
oh and i looked at those cartridge filter prices.haha not this months finances.

If you want. Just use different means to keep bacteria in the tank.

Any over the side filter will work. You don't have to get a crazy expensive canister type. I just recommend getting one rated for about twice the gallons it will be used for. Some take 2 of the cheap slide-in cartridge filters. For the over the side filters, these are the ones I recommend. That way you pull one cartridge when it gets full of gunk and replace it with a new one. Do the other cartridge 3-4 weeks later and so on. Only change one at a time. These will keep your water clear just as good as a canister if it's rated to filter enough water. Get one for 50/55 gal for the 29 gal tank.

That way you are not removing all the good bacteria at once. Especially in an aquarium which is not yet established, and you only have to change one filter once a month.

Fir instance.. This marineland penguin 350 with bio wheel. Takes 2 filter cartridges. They are quiet (I've used these before) and affordable. Rated for up to 75 gal. It would work wonderfully when you get the 30 gal.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0009I...766345-8677351

would that penguin work wonderfully on the 29gl too??

for this 10gl i should get like a 30-40gl filter right?

oh and for the vege,just drop a piece of broccoli or potatoe in the tank?

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Originally Posted by mark and marley

would that penguin work wonderfully on the 29gl too??

for this 10gl i should get like a 30-40gl filter right?

oh and for the vege,just drop a piece of broccoli or potatoe in the tank?

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The penguin rated up to 75 gal would be great for any tank 29 to 50 gal.

Yes. Cut a potato in quarters and drop a couple in. Or a large broccoli floret. Etc.. Anything that will slowly decompose in the water. When it starts to get too mushy, pull it out and put more in.

ohhh i talked to fish expert again today,before you drop a veggie in the tank with your fish that is bad.its good for "fishless cycling"but not when your fish is in there.the vege trick is to help create ammonia but if you have a fish already in there he creates the ammonia..

but i will use the vege "fishless cycling" technique in when i get the new tank before i put doc in.
thanks again tho foschi

Actually it's good for me because Plecostomus eat squash and cucumbers and broccoli etc.. I always put veggies in my tank. Then again mine is already cycled. I find it hard to believe that the ammonia created by a veggie breaking down would be more than the bacteria created could handle. But if he says for you not to do it, then don't do it.

he said not to because mine is just a 10gl with crappy filter,in the process of cycling and my fish is creating definately more ammonia than what lil bacteria i have and my 10gl filter can handle. when i get the 29 and it cycled ill definately be dropping in goodies for Doc. dude hes a mean son of gun. he always tries to punk me.puffing up and snapping at the glass. hes got some cahones for being 4''.he even follows me from one side of the tank to the other sometimes.hes meaner than all my critters put together,no wonder i cant put nothing in a tank with him unless its over 55gl.

do you have any fish like this?
an oscar?!?!?!

Lol not now but I use to. I had an Oscar and 2 parrot fish. One of the parrot fish always rammed my hand and bit me if I reached into take something out to clean it.

I decided more docile fish were a better way to go lol.

hahahahaha. i kinda like the feisty ones. my babys mama has a bunch of docile fish,but daddy has a snake,scorpions,and feisty lil killer of a fish.

who do you think my daughter is going to come to when she starts school and theres show and tell?:D

I wish my son wasn't so squeamish about insects but I think he got it from me. I freak out if I see a house spider or centipede. Having a crawlspace means HUGE centipedes! Lol

But I love my scorps. I think it's because they resemble crabs and I love crabs (not that kind lol).

My evil parrot fish was almost as big as a dinner plate so I never could get use to her aggressive ramming. I'd use a large net to corral her in one corner if I was removing something from the tank but it didn't always work. She was sneaky ;)

my daughters only a month and three weeks.time will tell how her personality imprints will unfold.her mom loves animals as well,mostly fish and mammals though and cute geckos and mantis'.daddy loves em all.
except i do not like centipedes,i respect em but dislike em.ive battled myself over this many of times.i want to get one as a pet so i can get over my feelings.that is the only creature that makes my skin crawl.the only.i cannot find a pet store that carries centipedes here so i guess i will live with my feelings.
scorpions kinda do resemble crabs and they do the same type of fist pumping at you,i find crabs antics hilarious.
hahahaha that sounds like my kind of fish!